The wise choice of quitting spirituality all together.

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@PurpleTree the question has no meaning .

What do you mean by cancel each other out ?

I mean 

If solipsism is true does it mean radical non duality a la Parsons, Newman etc. isn’t true and vice versa? Are they opposed?

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

I mean 

If solipsism is true does it mean radical non duality a la Parsons, Newman etc. isn’t true and vice versa? Are they opposed?

Jim and Parsons don't have a "teaching"..as I'm sure you've heard them saying that often . Solipsism says you are the whole shebang..while They say there isn't "you" in the first place . Their point of view is higher than just a school of thought or a philosophy like Solipsism..

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Someone here said:

Jim and Parsons don't have a "teaching"..as I'm sure you've heard them saying that often . Solipsism says you are the whole shebang..while They say there isn't "you" in the first place . Their point of view is higher than just a school of thought or a philosophy like Solipsism..

Agreed

Imo solipsism is still "in the story"

While the other thing is beyond it.

Although i’ve had some solipsism experiences on mushrooms and such and it was great.

[Moon]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you think you will master this work -- the human system and mind -- through anything less than decades of serious and difficult work, you are kidding yourself.

Your enlightenments maybe be instantaneous or whatever, but that is just the tip of the iceberg that is this work.

The suffering in this work is real and serious. This is the most difficult work that a human being could do. Which is why virtually nobody goes all the way. If you expect it to be quick, simple, or easy, I promise you will fail.

To succeed in war, you must respect your enemy. And the enemy is you.

Not all humans are made or born equal. Some humans endured and learned a lot in previous lives for example and not all rules apply to everyone. This is a generalisation and perhaps for you, this is what your life is about- because truly, on a deeper level you want the hard work. You have a deeper belief system based on being the best, enjoying competition and spiritual superiority. Your process is a very masculine based approach which has limitations.

Your focus on articulation of such work has value but mastery of the human system and mind is beyond articulation. We are not just separate entities competing to be the enlightened ones, there is a collective awakening occurring. 

I am not denying suffering being a part of spiritual work but consistently labelling these practices as severely difficult to yourself and your followers may be creating extra layers of work that is unnecessary. 

Expansive states can be experienced where previously seen as “decades” of work can be experienced in much shorter time scales in an integrated way. This may seem foolish if you have a fixed belief system of life having to be hard to get big rewards as well as the gratification of showing others you worked hard. This is a previously held belief system of mine. 

Surrendering such limitations can aid in greater channelling of infinite intelligence and thus a more effortless flow of truth revelations. 

Additionally, the power of higher states of joy, bliss, love, flow etc when glimpsed along the way should not be ignored. It is your guidance system towards authenticity and truth.

Thank you to Leo and all of you, I truly want the best for us all 🙌✨

 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Moon

[Leo Gura]

Before you guys wax on about how you've figured all this out and how easy it is, I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

Edited 11 hours ago by Leo Gura

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

I don't know Leo. It's a fascinating and deep question. What is Insanity and what is sanity? 

What comes to mind is that sanity is consensus reality agreed by culture and society.

Insanity is the breakdown of mental barriers. A paradoxical collapse of dualistic perception. The distinction between opposites blur causing a mental collapse. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have had a breakthrough on LSD that caused me to panic, reality was inside me and I couldn't tell the difference between real and unreal.

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have had a breakthrough on LSD that caused me to panic, reality was inside me and I couldn't tell the difference between real and unreal.

That’s a feature and a bug!

[Leo Gura]

I will not give an answer. Instead I will use the question to test who understands Consciousness and who doesn't.

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

Give ratings of answers 1-10

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

Give ratings of answers 1-10

My ratings are outside the box. Phenomenal, breaking records. Never been done before 

[ExploringReality]

Sanity is a constructive continuity of mind. Insanity is deconstruction, No boundaries. A direct Metaphysical confrontation.

 

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Before you guys wax on about how you've figured all this out and how easy it is, I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

Insanity is when your mind has no base to ground itself anymore, like core beliefs. Its therefore not limited anymore and this is insanity because you don't know the difference between up or down, good or bad, who is who, etc and are free to imagine total new disturbing things.

Sanity is opposite of course, when you have some solid foundation in core beliefs and a functional structure of your ego mind so it cannot be lost in its own mind so easy because of these limits which keep you in check.

[ExploringReality]

Sanity is a fluid pattern of distinctions, categories and sense of identity. A sense of physical reality. It is your belief in a physical reality. 

[theleelajoker]

Quote

If you think you will master this work -- the human system and mind -- through anything less than decades of serious and difficult work, you are kidding yourself.

(...)

The suffering in this work is real and serious. This is the most difficult work that a human being could do. Which is why virtually nobody goes all the way. If you expect it to be quick, simple, or easy, I promise you will fail.

First quote by @Leo Gura

I believe he absolutely has a point. My personal experiences definitely resonates with this. It's a long process, it's layer after layer, step by step and it's probably life-long and repeating in cycles. It is difficult work, very few people start, fewer continue and without effort and will, also will to suffer, you probably stop along the way without reaching certain benefits.

 

Quote

As long as your mind is seeking in this way.. it won't lead you anywhere..because you're chasing something that you think doesn't already exist at this moment. And this fundamentally means you will never be awake. So long as you think this moment is not enough.. You will keep seeking the next one and the next one.. And you will never be awake . When you Allow everything to just be as it is.

(...)

All states are temporary. They come and go. If awakening was a state.. It would be temporary..And it would not be worth "getting" since you can't "get it" anyway. 

Second quote by @Someone here

I believe he absolutely has a point. My personal experiences definitely resonates with this. It's so simple it's almost ridiculous. It's just here. Breathe, observe, just experience the moment with (ideally) zero resistance.  It's sometimes up, it's sometimes down, there is no final state because everything is just passing and arising. Enjoy the show.

My view:

• Mind want's to categorize, to make a final statement, judgement
• But both can be true if I am not following the parameters of logical mind (isn't that one of the central intentions of Zen koans?)
• I don't understand these discussions - argumentation what is this and what is that, who is better and more spiritual and so son here in this forum
• Integration of different perspectives > superiority of one perspective. Less measuring of intellectual or spiritual dick sizes, more working together
• # ambiguity tolerance

[theleelajoker]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will not give an answer. Instead I will use the question to test who understands Consciousness and who doesn't.

Sometimes I am really impressed by your posts, your honesty and your way of seeing and expressing things.

Sometimes I am incredible disappointed. 

Really, now you are judge of understanding, using a question about language definition on a forum?

First, the test itself is shitty. Made-up words and you are the king of language, the king of understanding to tell what these words mean?

Second, the sheer fact that you feel to prove your apparent superiority by a "test" like this? My take is that with more maturity, you would not even think of testing and judging people like this.

[TruthFreedom]

Easy.

Sanity is seeing the Truth.

Insanity is Lies.

[OBEler]

@theleelajoker I think you must consider the context Leo said this. I think he just meant that people here are so confident about their spiritual development that they throw out bold statements about deep topics . However if they not even can answer what's meant with sanity vs insanity they should be more humbled.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

36 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Sometimes I am really impressed by your posts, your honesty and your way of seeing and expressing things.

Sometimes I am incredible disappointed. 

Really, now you are judge of understanding, using a question about language definition on a forum?

First, the test itself is shitty. Made-up words and you are the king of language, the king of understanding to tell what these words mean?

Second, the sheer fact that you feel to prove your apparent superiority by a "test" like this? My take is that with more maturity, you would not even think of testing and judging people like this.

Pretty much agree. 

You just know it's a challenge to Leo's ego.

So this question is a trap to lure one into semantics and rehetoric.

 

[Vynce]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Before you guys wax on about how you've figured all this out and how easy it is, I want to hear one person here explain what sanity and insanity is.

You know not how deep Mind goes.

Sanity is all the states that appear predictable and coherent with your assumptions about reality.

Insanity is all the states that appear to follow no apparent predictable structure and don't bow to any preformed notion of reality.

[theleelajoker]

32 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@theleelajoker I think you must consider the context Leo said this. I think he just meant that people here are so confident about their spiritual development that they throw out bold statements about deep topics . However if they not even can answer what's meant with sanity vs insanity they should be more humbled.

1.,There is no "right" or "wrong" answer. Only subjective definitions. 

2. What are the chances you can "force" humbling on people like that?

What are the chances you create more resistance, more conflict, doing more harm than good?

Even if this is the intention - the method IMO is not only questionable but highly ineffective. What would be a good method for me?

• Accepting. People write these bold statements and all you do is saying:  "OK".
• Or not saying anything at all. Silence. If they are as developed as they think, let them have their experiences. Life will prove them "right" or "wrong"
• Asking questions that are not proving my (Leo's) apparent superiority, but are constructive
• ....

There are others ways, but we are limited in the context of this forum.

I see the question as it is as a flawed ego-move and a trap like Natasha Tori Maru said. Let's see if there are lemmings walking into it

Edited 6 hours ago by theleelajoker