The wise choice of quitting spirituality all together.

[PurpleTree]

Do solipsism and the let’s say radical Tony Parsons type non duality cancel each other out?

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you think you will master this work -- the human system and mind -- through anything less than decades of serious and difficult work, you are kidding yourself.

Your enlightenments maybe be instantaneous or whatever, but that is just the tip of the iceberg that is this work.

The suffering in this work is real and serious. This is the most difficult work that a human being could do. Which is why virtually nobody goes all the way. If you expect it to be quick, simple, or easy, I promise you will fail.

To succeed in war, you must respect your enemy. And the enemy is you.

There's some partial truth to that . At first hard work is a nessceity. It's like trying to solve some heady Calculus  when you can't even do  simple algebra equations. Not gonna work .

However..for someone like you Leo..I don't think there is anything more to figure out or to awaken to . You already had so many awakenings to fill out a sea hole . What do you want ? You are god .I'm god .I'm you .it's all one . It's all pure magic pure infinite unexplainable love etc.

Liberation is different than awakening though and this is a key distinction.  You are awake . But liberation  is so radical that awakening itself doesn't matter nor does anything  really matter . Cause its all "all that is " unfolding perfectly .

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, OBEler said:

 

Even if you can do astral projections/OBEs, they don't come close to psychedelics.

I tried exactly this experiment with my girlfriend. I never told her about Leo.I never gave her spiritual books, she cannot read english so it's impossible that she ever went to this forum. I never told her about anything spiritual, like god , solipsim. 

I gave her psychedelics to cure her depression. But she gradually awakened. First she met Jesus several times , also other gods. Then she met zeus the god of all gods. Her first glimps, she told me somehow she was him.

Then 30 trips later she had a first  5 Meo breakthrough. After that she told me exactly what Leo told you all the way. You are everything. There is only you. You are completely alone. But you split yourself like infinite mirrors. But there can't be someone else but you. You create everything around you with your mind.

That were exactly her words. It's true solipsim. And she is fine with that.

OK so is your girlfriend not real for you and you are not real for her ?

I would say break up and find a new girlfriend 

[OBEler]

@Someone here hey, I gave you a good contradiction to your tribal people example. Nothing more nothing less.

And now all you do is start to discuss solipsim with me. What's that?

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

@Someone here hey, I gave you a good contradiction to your tribal people example. Nothing more nothing less.

And now all you do is start to discuss solipsim with me. What's that?

OK on a serious note ..if your girlfriend realized "solipsim " after tripping on 5 meo a lot of times ...then that's her experience. Why should a hallucination induced by a chemical be taken as evidence for anything or a metric for deciphering what's true ? You dream every night...you might be dreaming right now ...you have no fucking clue ..i mean seriouly you do not

.all I'm saying there is a wide gap of not knowing surrounding us In this existence.  Don't jump to conclusions so easily .

What I'm expressing is pretty simple. Take it or leave it. You seem to also be stuck on chasing psychedelic experiences thinking that some day in the future you will reach a critical point of insight and BOOM.. "enlightenment will happen". Well that's pretty much the biggest obstacle to enlightment as taught in ancient wisdom. Thinking that you need to be somewhere else and cultivate a different state of mind. Cultivation is the selfs/egos best friend.  That was my main point against leo.

 

[Nemra]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Why should a hallucination induced by a chemical be taken as evidence for anything or a metric for deciphering what's true?

😂

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Nemra said:

😂

Oh well..I'm on my materialist week . Next week I will be a diehard idealist 

[OBEler]

@Someone here she said to me she already knew it somehow. 5 Meo was just a remembering that she constructs reality with her mind. She is spiritual gifted.

It's not a not knowing. She knows in real time, she is conscious of how she construct everything. 

Solipsism can be reached without 5 meo. It's not a drug induced state. 

Don't drift off what my enlightenment journey entails and how I should approach it. That's not the topic here. And no I don't chase any psychedelic experiences nor do I pursue enlightenment. 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:48 PM by OBEler

[Natasha Tori Maru]

The glass ceiling followers of Leo are finding, is the difficulty of reconciling spirituality/spiritual work with the mundane, low energy matter of day-to-day existence.

Anything that puts you in a state of non-expansion is disconnected from God consciousness. This is usually ego relation. Division.

Ego is a state of contraction.

You will find yourself dancing between these states; consider it your job to find a balance between the two.

True spiritual work and God consciousness IS NEVER NEGATIVE.

If you feel a negative emotion, or contraction, you have further self-exploration to do. 

This is why we exist, to experience friction through experience. This teaches you about yourself. This is exploring the self.

This is God, learning about itself, in this matter/energy existence.

You can't escape suffering, just like you can't escape joy.

You can pursue this work while also fulfilling your day-to-day experience.

But you MUST be ready to do so.

For many this work is pursued too early in the desperate cry for meaning in their lives.

This is why most teachers want you to look within and won't give you answers.

This is why Leo holds back on many things

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Someone here she said to me she already knew it somehow. 5 Meo was just a remembering that she constructs reality with her mind. She is spiritual gifted.

It's not a not knowing. She knows in real time, she is conscious of how she construct everything. 

Solipsism can be reached without 5 meo. It's not a drug induced state. How can you not see that?

Don't drift off what my enlightenment journey entails and how I should approach it. That's not the topic here. And no I don't chase any psychedelic experiences nor do I pursue enlightenment. So your assumptions are wrong.

 

I'm not gonna argue about what psychedelics are and how they work just for the sake of not getting my ass banned by Leo..that's point number one .

I can't judge or assess  wether solipsism is true based on someone else's experience.  Because thats fundamentally contradicts  solipsism which literally states that YOU are the only one in this world who is having a conscious experience . So I'm at lost as to how you take her experience as evidence for solipsism. If you had the same experience similar her ..then that means its just the toad juice fucks with your mind . Because you both are saying solipsism is true after trying 5 meo . Make sure you get this .

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Liberation is different than awakening though and this is a key distinction. 

And that liberation requires work.

So I don't see what you are disagreeing over.

You speak of liberation as something automatic and effortless. Liberation will require lots of suffering. Which is the point of this thread. Most people are unwilling to pay the price.

Edited Monday at 12:03 AM by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm not gonna argue about what psychedelics are and how they work just for the sake of not getting my ass banned by Leo..that's point number one .

I can't judge or assess  wether solipsism is true based on someone else's experience.  Because thats fundamentally contradicts  solipsism which literally states that YOU are the only one in this world who is having a conscious experience . So I'm at lost as to how you take her experience as evidence for solipsism. If you had the same experience similar her ..then that means its just the toad juice fucks with your mind . Because you both are saying solipsism is true after trying 5 meo . Make sure you get this .

I never take that as evidence. You must become highly conscious to get the evidence for yourself. No one but you yourself can proof it.

All I was doing was just contradicting your tribe example. Again nothing more nothing less.

Edited Monday at 12:00 AM by OBEler

[Davino]

Martial arts and True Spirituality are those few things in life that teach you to push through suffering when everything shouts you to stop.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And that liberation requires work.

So I don't see what you are disagreeing over.

You speak of liberation as something automatic and effortless. Liberation will require lots of suffering. Which is the point of this thread. Most people are unwilling to pay the price.

 All I can say respectfully you don't understand what liberation truly is .it is not a future state to achieve. You are Failing to realize it is right now. It is an eternal "state".. timeless. So it is the ultimate paradox..both state and non-state at the same time. Both to-work for and already the case at the same time. 

 

 

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Do solipsism and the let’s say radical Tony Parsons type non duality cancel each other out?

Gosh was looking forward to an answer.

But you guys ignore it as if the boi had leprosy.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 All I can say respectfully you don't understand what liberation truly is .it is not a future state to achieve. You are Failing to realize it is right now. It is an eternal "state".. timeless. So it is the ultimate paradox..both state and non-state at the same time. Both to-work for and already the case at the same time. 

It doesn't matter.

There is still work to do and price to pay. You are not going to skip over the work or the price.

Edited Monday at 12:18 AM by Leo Gura

[Davino]

@Someone here As a sage once said, it takes time to realise the timeless.

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't matter.

There is still work to do and price to pay. You are not going to skip over the work or the price.

Ok boss.

8 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Someone here As a sage once said, it takes time to realise the timeless.

Who said that ? It's true. 

 

[Someone here]

@PurpleTree the question has no meaning .

What do you mean by cancel each other out ?

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@PurpleTree the question has no meaning .

What do you mean by cancel each other out ?

I mean 

If solipsism is true does it mean radical non duality a la Parsons, Newman etc. isn’t true and vice versa? Are they opposed?