WATCH: Trump argues with Zelenskyy in Oval Office

[Something Funny]

7 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

The front line is too fortified with mines, trenches, dragons teeth, pillboxes, etc...

 

Lol, and?

Do you realise that Ukraine and Poland were literally non-existent on the map until slightly more than 100 years ago?

USSR was seen by everyone as an insane powerhouse and a serious threat just 40 years ago. Where is it now?

Poland was literally divided between 3 humongous empires, that were much more powerful at the time than Russia is nowaday. And today Poland is doing just fine, as good as new.

Ukraine has been continuously struggling against all kinds of occupiers for all 1000 years of its existence. We can definitely survive modern Russia.

BTW, what happens to Russia when Putin dies? And I doubt he lives for more than 10 more years. They are so fucked. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have "federation" in their name anymore. All those different republics with all kinds of different ethnicities living in them. Many are still at stage blue mixed with some red levels of development, with local warlords waiting for the slightest signs of weakness.

Edited Friday at 07:57 PM by Something Funny

[Nemra]

@Raze, you can't easily make a deal with someone like Putin. He'll try to undermine you.

[puporing]

28 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I think it’s pretty much doomed. At this point, our best bet is strengthening ties with China and having Xi pressure Putin into behaving himself. Though, of course, China might be even more unhinged - just in a far more covert way. So yeah, things aren’t looking great. But if there’s any path forward for Europe and what's left of the so-called free world, it’s through smart diplomacy with China.

Well there's also a chance that Ukraine might consider radical militarization as Zelensky alluded to in an interview. He is smart enough to know there aren't a lot of good immediate options and the world order is quickly being transformed in front of our eyes. I think Zelensky very much knows he has the moral leadership despite being from a "smaller country".

He is now the one who has to lead the democratic countries whether it's in public or behind the scenes.

Edited Friday at 08:04 PM by puporing

[Something Funny]

5 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

any real push for military strength would only provoke intervention from these powers, who see a strong Europe as a threat.

I don't think so. Russia's opinion doesn't matter. They are too insignificant to have a say in what Europe does.

America can only whine and make threats with more tariffs, even with Trump there is no chance for an actual war with Europe.

China seems chill and stable at the moment, but idk.

And I just don't think anyone will care that much. Russia is a perfect excuse for strengthening the EU military and more integration, it's really hard for anyone to have any issues with this. 

9 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Nonetheless, I agree that this should remain the goal. But reaching it will require far more flexibility in forging temporary strategic alliances as we move toward a post-NATO, post-Bretton Woods world order.

Europe should be developing alliances and cooperation with Africa. They should invest in Africa and help it develop to gain influence there, just like China is doing right now.

[PurpleTree]

16 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I would love to believe in this, but the reality is that we have no significant military capabilities compared to the U.S., Russia, or China. Even if we grow our economy, any real push for military strength would only provoke intervention from these powers, who see a strong Europe as a threat.

Nonetheless, I agree that this should remain the goal. But reaching it will require far more flexibility in forging temporary strategic alliances as we move toward a post-NATO, post-Bretton Woods world order.

We also don’t have a Silicon Valley, petro dollar, thousands of nukes and so on. We have the most beautiful cities and most delicious pastries and chocolate though 💜

[Sincerity]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

Also, where was the "respect" when JD Vance ran his mouth about Europe in Munich a couple of weeks ago? Absolute scum. These people are so full of themselves - it’s insane. Disgusting American arrogance at its peak.

I’ve never felt more patriotic, more proud to be European than during this Trump administration. Seems like we’re the only adults left in the room. 

I believe NATO is finished, and with each passing day, democracies fade.

I agree with you 100%. Hearing that scumbag Vance speak in Munich made my blood boil. And I just PRAY that Europe gets the wake up call and becomes independent from the US. And I pray we unite under one flag as federal Europe.

I think the simple truth is that Trump is more alike to Putin in terms of development, rather than the European „allies”. He does not need to be „educated” about Putin. He is simply on a similar level.

You cannot change this person. The only thing that would appeal to him would have to be egoic, appeasing him personally, his image. He does not give a fuck about Europe, Ukraine, democracy or even the US. He only cares about himself.

Trump is the literal antichrist. To the US, Europe, Ukraine, Palestine, US neighbours… and humanity as a whole, I would argue. 

Edited Friday at 08:15 PM by Sincerity

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

Europe should be developing alliances and cooperation with Africa. They should invest in Africa and help it develop to gain influence there, just like China is doing right now.

I guess so. First and foremost, we should repay our debt to the people of Africa for centuries of colonization and horrific inhumanity - but unfortunately, we don’t have that luxury right now, which is, of course, a shame.

Most of Africa remains severely underdeveloped, making fair business difficult. A significant portion of foreign investment is siphoned off by warlords and dictators rather than being used for the common good.

Ideally, we would support them in building critical infrastructure, but we lack the means - we can barely maintain our own. 

That said, I think we’re aligned on values - so cheers to that.

[puporing]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

thousands of nukes and so on.

Unfortunately because of Russia I think EU has to rapidly militarize. Trump cannot be trusted..

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, puporing said:

Unfortunately because of Russia I think EU has to rapidly militarize. Trump cannot be trusted..

Agreed. But on the other hand i think Russia won’t nuke western Europe because of our beautiful walkable cities and delicious pastries. 

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, puporing said:

Unfortunately

Fortunately

[Nilsi]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

We have the most beautiful cities and most delicious pastries and chocolate though 💜

I agree - Europe has the most beautiful cities, architecture, culture, women, food, and parties. We’ve had our priorities straight.

But all great things must pass, and I think Spengler was right about the Decline of the West. Everything that makes Europe great is an artifact of the past, a remnant of something fading. 

But you know, here in Germany, we have a saying: "Totgesagte leben länger" - roughly, "those declared dead live longer." 

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, puporing said:

Unfortunately because of Russia I think EU has to rapidly militarize. Trump cannot be trusted..

Europe is already having major social issues and radicalization, if they militarize now that would mean worsening it as they have to pull resources from their social safety net.

[Something Funny]

Just now, Nilsi said:

Everything that makes Europe great is an artifact of the past, a remnant of something fading. 

Not really. There are a lot of cool new things in Europe

[puporing]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Agreed. But on the other hand i think Russia won’t nuke western Europe because of our beautiful walkable cities and delicious pastries. 

That's rather naive.. and is the kind of thinking that will play right into his cards.

Putin is a master trickster and almost nobody knows how to deal with this guy.

Only someone like Zelensky knows.

Edited Friday at 08:28 PM by puporing

[puporing]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

Europe is already having major social issues and radicalization, if they militarize now that would mean worsening it as they have to pull resources from their social safety net.

Europe just like the citizens of the United States, has to decide what kind of world it wants to live in, the kind of world Putin wants? or true democracy and freedom.

Every individual has to decide. The "wishy washiness" of the masses is what is allowing people like Putin and Trump to take power.

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I agree - Europe has the most beautiful cities, architecture, culture, women, food, and parties. We’ve had our priorities straight.

But all great things must pass, and I think Spengler was right about the Decline of the West. Everything that makes Europe great is an artifact of the past, a remnant of something fading. 

But you know, here in Germany, we have a saying: "Totgesagte leben länger" - roughly, "those declared dead live longer." 

Right now the US is leading the world.

With China as a strong competitor with 1.4 Billion people. Europe is third. What makes Europe great is that it exactly isn’t the US or China. Europe should forge ties with friendly countries like Canada, Japan, friendly forward african and Asian countries. And make a democratic worldwide union under a nuclear umbrella.

[Nilsi]

Just now, Something Funny said:

Not really. There are a lot of cool new things in Europe

Don’t take it so literally - of course, there’s innovation in Europe. But the core values of European cultural life still feel like a call-back to the past rather than a drive toward the radically new. Europe, as a whole, doesn’t embody the same exponential, disruptive innovation you see in places like Silicon Valley.

Maybe I have too much of a German-French bias, but to me, Europe is about public participation - in the arts, in culture, in politics. What we seek is stability to cultivate beauty, justice, and meaning, rather than to disrupt or dominate.

Unlike the Promethean ambition of the U.S. or the Confucian power struggle of China, Europe is not animated by a restless drive toward reinvention. It’s not about forcing the future into being - it’s about preserving and adding to the richness of life that already exists.

[Nilsi]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

Right now the US is leading the world.

With China as a strong competitor with 1.4 Billion people. Europe is third. What makes Europe great is that it exactly isn’t the US or China. Europe should forge ties with friendly countries like Canada, Japan, friendly forward african and Asian countries. And make a democratic worldwide union under a nuclear umbrella.

I’m basically on the same page.

[Something Funny]

I can't get over the "why don't you wear a suite?" dude. Arrogant losers have completely lost their shit.

[Raze]

I recommend watching the full press conference. The discussion started polite and Trump said he was agreeing to a sign a long term financing agreement. It got heated because Zelensky kept interjecting and trying to start an argument.

When Trump said people died on both sides, Zelensky needlessly interjected saying Russians were invaders, Vance made a good point that constantly demonizing Russia in the media has not helped negotiations, and it started the argument.

I’m thinking Zelensky did this on purpose, either because he wants to US to reduce or stop aid so he can agree to end the war but blame them, or to make more of a split between the Us and Europe to get Europe to finance more and hope in the next four years a different admin more in favor of indefinite military spending will come along.