WATCH: Trump argues with Zelenskyy in Oval Office

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, puporing said:

I will investigate, but your previous discussions with me were not just based on facts, but your obviously brainwashed mind.

And you are also conveniently ignoring facts about media control brainwash and death squad operations. 

Read again and find one fact that I mentioned that's wrong if you can

[puporing]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

I'm not saying that trump is good, I'm saying that what he's doing is just business, same than any other president, but more rough, without diplomacy, like a cheap movie cowboy, but the reality in the end is always the same, business. everything for me, nothing for you, or the least for you

No trump is much more dangerous than Biden. You are just too blind to see. And this "debate" is going nowhere because you cannot see.

[puporing]

2 minutes ago, puporing said:

Also I never said nobody's free from corruption, but there are degrees.

 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

I’m not very susceptible to propaganda. I evaluate and consider claims objectively and I use my knowledge of human psychology and devilry in conjunction with logical deduction to arrive at what is likely or possible. If you think the idea that Trump is on Putin’s payroll is insane and has no merit, then you don’t understand the characters in question. First is understanding the characters, but I can tell by the way you talk about Trump that you don’t understand his character, so you likely won’t be able to arrive at this position. A few weeks ago you thought Trump was a well-intentioned, status-quo, merely corrupt—in the way the rest of them are—politician. If you believe that, then yes, this theory would appear absurd. Plus, I detect a cultural/conformist right wing bias in you, which would make it even harder.

Means, motive, and opportunity are there. Plug in all the character variables, history, and reporting, and you have a solid theory. Yes, it's conspiratorial, which turns some intelligent people off, but that's a mistake IMO. 

I think i understand him well enough...Like I said..he's too much of a narcissist and an alpha male to to take orders from anyone.   So I think it's kinda far fetched - i.e a conspiracy theory.    If that was true the US would truly be lost - and I really don't think that's the case.   Do I think he respects and admires  him? Yeah..because he's like him in many ways.  He is a narccist who feeds on power.   But he will do his own bidding in the end.  He's done this from day one.  And his advisors are there to steer him away from self destruction due to his own ego.  

I don't have right wing bias though it may seem that way.  I try to tip the scales here on this forum because it's so far left.

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, puporing said:

No trump is much more dangerous than Biden. You are just too blind to see. And this "debate" is going nowhere because you cannot see.

Maybe he's much more dangerous. Biden pushed this war where like 1 million of young men are dead or with serious injuries, and many millions traumatized for ever, let's see what trump does, maybe he destroy the world, it's a possibility. 

Anyway, read this if you have some minutes:

Kissinger already warned in 2014 that "for Russia, Ukraine can never simply be a foreign country" and that, therefore, it needs a policy aimed at "reconciliation." He was also firm in his stance that "Ukraine should not join NATO."

- John Mearsheimer - probably the leading expert on US geopolitics today - in 2015: "The West is taking Ukraine down a bed of roses and the end result is that Ukraine is going to be destroyed [...] What we are doing is, in fact, encouraging that outcome."

- Jack F. Matlock Jr., US ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987 to 1991, warned in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic mistake, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious threat to security [...] since the collapse of the Soviet Union."

-Clinton's Secretary of Defense, William Perry, explains in his memoirs that for him NATO enlargement is the cause of "the breakdown of relations with Russia" and that in 1996 he was so opposed to it that "out of the force of my conviction, I considered resigning."

-Noam Chomsky in 2015, saying that "the idea that Ukraine could join a Western military alliance would be absolutely unacceptable to any Russian leader" and that Ukraine's desire to join NATO "is not protecting Ukraine, it is threatening Ukraine with a major war."

CIA Director Bill Burns in 2008: "Ukraine's entry into NATO is the clearest red line for [Russia]" and "I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything more than a direct challenge to Russian interests."

-Pat Buchanan, special assistant and consultant to US Presidents Nixon, Ford and Reagan, wrote in his 1999 book A Republic, Not an Empire: "By moving NATO onto Russia's porch, we have scheduled a 21st-century confrontation."

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[puporing]

@Breakingthewall You can always find "people who seem to support your claims". You cannot convince me because all you are doing is reiterating Pro-Russia Empire propaganda to me. 

Who gives a shit what Russia or Putin want if their values are vastly opposite?

I have zero interest bending over backwards for a criminal dictator, and you can keep trying but you will never convince me till the end of time.

Edited 3 hours ago by puporing

[PurpleTree]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think i understand him well enough...Like I said..he's too much of a narcissist and an alpha male to to take orders from anyone.   So I think it's kinda far fetched - i.e a conspiracy theory.    If that was true the US would truly be lost - and I really don't think that's the case.   Do I think he respects and admires  him? Yeah..because he's like him in many ways.  He is a narccist who feeds on power.   But he will do his own bidding in the end.  He's done this from day one.  And his advisors are there to steer him away from self destruction due to his own ego.  

I don't have right wing bias though it may seem that way.  I try to tip the scales here on this forum because it's so far left.

 

 

 

I think the big difference is that Trump does things mostly for himself. While Putin does things mostly for Russia (or his vision of Russia).  And Trump is an attention whore while Putin isn’t really. Trump isn’t really ideological while Putin is. That’s just how it comes across here.

[puporing]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

does things mostly for Russia

That's what he wants you/people to think of course. 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, puporing said:

reiterating Pro-Russia Empire propaganda to

Why you can't understand what I'm saying? I am not pro Russia, I say that this conflict has deep roots that go back to the Second World War and the time of Stalin, that it was surely inevitable and that the result will be that Russia stays with the Dombass and Crimea and Ukraine is independent without those areas, but that the Western "aid" to Ukraine has only served for more destruction, it has been deliberate to make business, and that the idea that Russia wants to invade more countries is a lie and those who spread they know it perfectly

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Funny thing is NATO existed as a deterrent against Russia/Soviet for 75 years.

It was basically started by the US.

Article 5 was only used once when the US asked for help after 9/11

As soon as Russia starts to test Europe after 75 years.

America is like "bye guys we’re out you’re on your own“

The players have changed so you get different mindsets.  

But Russia isn't testing Europe they're testing Ukraine.  Yes?

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Inliytened1

[puporing]

@Breakingthewall It's very obvious you are pro-Russia and Putin's regime. Or we wouldn't still be arguing.

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, puporing said:

That's what he wants you/people to think of course. 

I mean i would also say Hitler loved Germany (in his own twisted way). Even if he ended up destroying it.

[puporing]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I mean i would also say Hitler loved Germany (in his own twisted way). Even if he ended up destroying it.

I understand the point you are trying to make. But Putin really does not come off to me that way. He really just comes off to me as a master trickster psychopath deceiving the people of Russia and the world, similar with Trump. 

I'm suggesting that they are actually not "nationalistic" at all but just using that to maintain power.

You could say that is even worse than someone like Hitler.

Edited 3 hours ago by puporing

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, puporing said:

@Breakingthewall It's very obvious you are pro-Russia and Putin's regime. Or we wouldn't still be arguing.

You, same than most, follow your emotions, and this makes you susceptible to manipulation. The information that is spread is aimed at manipulating the emotions of people who do not bother to go deeper but take sides according to their emotional preference and only want them to feed the option they have already chosen. That's how the world works and the leaders know it. The question is: what do you want, to understand in depth or to feed your emotions?

[puporing]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

You, same than most, follow your emotions, and this makes you susceptible to manipulation. The information that is spread is aimed at manipulating the emotions of people who do not bother to go deeper but take sides according to their emotional preference and only want them to feed the option they have already chosen. That's how the world works and the leaders know it. The question is: what do you want, to understand in depth or to feed your emotions?

That's exactly you right now unfortunately. 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, puporing said:

I understand the point you are trying to make. But Putin really does not come off to me that way. He really just comes off to me as a master trickster psychopath deceiving the people of Russia and the world, similar with Trump. 

You could say that is even worse than someone like Hitler.

Well maybe. If he really loved it he would have lifted more Russians out of poverty probably.

[puporing]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Well maybe. If he really loved it he would have lifted more Russians out of poverty probably.

Yes so you could say by ranks, Xijinping is a less corrupt dictator than Putin.. for example.

Edited 3 hours ago by puporing

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, puporing said:

That's exactly you right now unfortunately. 

Just contrast the facts that I said. Check information before the war, and after the war, realize the difference, watch documentaries made before the invasion, go deep, you will see. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[puporing]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Just contrast the facts that I said. Check information before the war, and after the war, realize the difference, watch documentaries, go deep, you will see. 

No you are the one who has to "learn", not me, seriously. You keep thinking you are more aware of the situation, you are not. 

There is a major epistemic mistake you are making and like I said before it is very hard to come around from it.

Edited 3 hours ago by puporing

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, puporing said:

Yes so you could say by ranks, Xinjinping is a less corrupt dictator than Putin.. for example.

Putin seems like a one man party. 
 

While in China it’s the CCP.

Although in some ways especially before the war i think Russia was a little less restrictive than China.