WATCH: Trump argues with Zelenskyy in Oval Office

[Jodistrict]

In the 1960s, the Western mass media told us that Ho Chi Minh was the biggest threat to mankind.  North Vietnam had invaded South Vietnam so according to simplistic logic, he was “clearly” the aggressor.  After an estimated 2.5 million people dead, North Vietnam eventually won.  The result?  Now they are capitalists hooked into the world system and barely noticed by anyone.  After the Vietnam war, dozens of books were written on the errors of groupthink and how it blindsided US foreign policy.  If the policy makers had actually understood the complexities of Vietnam, there never would have been a war.

Now, substitute “Putin” for “Ho Chi Minh” and “Ukraine” for “South Vietnam” and you have the same narrative.   We need to be more critical of those who push war narratives using fear and simplistic propaganda that hide the complexities.  There is always someone who profits from war.   The US spent 20 years in Afghanistan.  The same cruel elites want a unlimited no win war in Ukraine in order to supposedly grind down Russia.  They already know that Ukraine can never win.
 
Here is a young man kidnapped off the streets to serve in the Ukrainian army.   The brutality of war is real.

https://x.com/i/status/1895921103085916587
 

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, sholomar said:

There's no logic in continuing to funnel hundreds of billions of dollars to "defend Ukraine" when Russia is a nuclear state and has a rather large stockpile. Better to try to come to some sort of deal, even if it means some land concessions, to end the fighting and conflict. People think Putin/Russia plan to invade other countries and take over Europe, which is silly. They're not going to do that. Putin shouldn't have started the war, but he needs some sort of deal to "save face" ... should he be punished for starting the war? The question is not should he be, it's whether you think you can do it with his nuclear stockpile.

How do we achieve peace without a dragged out war that goes another 5 years and ultimately leads to Putin using nukes when he runs out of troops and we've ended up destroying how many more cities and cost how many more lives?

USA is more likely to take over Europe (even though economic means) than Putin is. WAY more likely 

[Hojo]

Russia dosent have to be stopped. If they dissapear you will have 1 world government. You need opposition.if USA government wins the world USA government is now your worst enemy as a citizen. Opposition keeps your leaders in check.

Only evil people will make it to the top of leader of the world because they are not peaceful and will genocide not just kill for that power. Peaceful people will not nessasarily fight for power. Their default is to not do that.

Many invisible things have come together for peace right now. Including our enemies and things we don't like.

Edited 16 hours ago by Hojo

[PurpleTree]

8 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

In the 1960s, the Western mass media told us that Ho Chi Minh was the biggest threat to mankind.  North Vietnam had invaded South Vietnam so according to simplistic logic, he was “clearly” the aggressor.  After an estimated 2.5 million people dead, North Vietnam eventually won.  The result?  Now they are capitalists hooked into the world system and barely noticed by anyone.  After the Vietnam war, dozens of books were written on the errors of groupthink and how it blindsided US foreign policy.  If the policy makers had actually understood the complexities of Vietnam, there never would have been a war.

Now, substitute “Putin” for “Ho Chi Minh” and “Ukraine” for “South Vietnam” and you have the same narrative.   We need to be more critical of those who push war narratives using fear and simplistic propaganda that hide the complexities.  There is always someone who profits from war.   The US spent 20 years in Afghanistan.  The same cruel elites want a unlimited no win war in Ukraine in order to supposedly grind down Russia.  They already know that Ukraine can never win.
 
Here is a young man kidnapped off the streets to serve in the Ukrainian army.   The brutality of war is real.

https://x.com/i/status/1895921103085916587
 

You pick and choose historical facts to support your narrative. 
 

What about the Iraq war? Where most European countries didn’t join the US in their dumb effort. And then Bush tried to change the name of French Fries to Freedom Fries.

Or when Hitler was roaming  and some Americans thought it was good to appease him.

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

In the 1960s, the Western mass media told us that Ho Chi Minh was the biggest threat to mankind.  North Vietnam had invaded South Vietnam so according to simplistic logic, he was “clearly” the aggressor.  After an estimated 2.5 million people dead, North Vietnam eventually won.  The result?  Now they are capitalists hooked into the world system and barely noticed by anyone.  After the Vietnam war, dozens of books were written on the errors of groupthink and how it blindsided US foreign policy.  If the policy makers had actually understood the complexities of Vietnam, there never would have been a war.

That's different. in that case, the Americans really thought about the domino effect and the need to stop the advance of communism, and they thought that intervening in Vietnam was necessary. In the case of Ukraine, the Americans know exactly what is happening and have poured gasoline on the fire until it explodes to achieve a series of objectives that are basically to enrich themselves and impoverish their adversaries, but I think that in the end the move is going to cost them dearly. 

[zazen]

19 hours ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

@zazen What about the fact that Russia suffered huge manpower losses? Which weren't inflicted on the West. West still has a lot of professional fresh troops ready to be deployed even without US. It doesn't matter how much you outproduce someone when there's not a soul left capable of using the equipment you've produced

Thats true, though they still have a sizeable amount of troops to deploy from. When I say the West don't have the strength to enforce a peace on Russia and ''win'' I mean it in the conventional sense of winning offensively: by taking the war to Russia itself and fighting it in their own sphere of influence. Thats the context I'm talking about. But in a war of defence the West is formidable.  This is why I think the Putin as Hitler rhetoric is overblown.

Theres no major idealogical driver, incentive, capability or appetite to expand and take Ukraine, let alone Europe. Beyond simply troop numbers the other 5 factors in war are: materials (to build weaponry), labour (to do the building), energy (to fuel the previous two), logistics / geography (to get troops and weapons to the front lines) and the political will (to sustain war). 

The issue expansionist imperial powers usually run into after satisfying some key elements (troops + weaponry) are geographic and logistical. Russia very well may get through Ukraine with mechanized warfare on flat lands, but the further away the front line gets from home the harder it gets to sustain a solid supply line / logistics. This only gets even tougher once you hit geographic hurdles such as forests, urban centres, hills / mountains and rivers. Hitler ran into the same issues.

If we look at a map of what Russia currently holds its not even gotten into middle Ukraine let alone the West. And thats after sizeable losses. The idea that Russia will not just take but hold onto Ukraine in its entirety, and then keep steam rolling further into Europe where there will be major rivers, hills, urban areas, mountains and the military might of the collective West including the resistance of millions - is frankly absurd.

What would Russia have to even gain from it? It already has the most resources in the world and has only incidentally got some more now in eastern Ukraine, though that wasn't the primary driver of this war. It's got its Russian speaking regions, access to the sea fortified, and a buffer zone to fortify the Russian heartland if there were to be any Western presence at the border. With an already ageing and now dying (in war) population, there is no appetite to go into a endless, expansionist war with nothing much to gain.

Neither Putin nor Russia have the appetite, desire or capability to steam roll their way to Germany for some bratwurst, stopover in France for some baguettes, and hop over to the UK for fish and chips under grey skies and rain. This is just a Cold War hangover the boomer class are still clinging onto individually, that has entrenched itself institutionally in the West.

Just saw this:

From 1:30 - 3:30 Dugin says that even within Russia there’s a consensus that they don’t have the capability to take large parts of Ukraine or even Eastern Europe. Despite a minority of nutters desiring that. The main thing is a neutral Ukraine and no threat from Western presence close to Russias core.

Edited 2 hours ago by zazen

[DocWatts]

If you live in the United States - CALL YOUR SENATORS AND REPS ABOUT THIS!!!!

The more public pushback that Trump's regime gets from the public, the more difficult and costly it will be for him to fulfill his fascistic foreign policy goals. Trump may not give a shit if the United States loses all its credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world and becomes a pariah state ala Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa, but his pillars of support (Republican legislators in vulnerable seats, multinational corporations) will care if public outrage over these disgraceful actions begins to affects them.

Here's a sample script you can use (or modify and personalize from):
 

Hi, my name is [Your Name], and I’m a constituent from [Your City/Zip Code]. 

I’m calling to urge Senator [name] to loudly and boldly condemn Donald Trump’s disgraceful betrayal of Ukraine and his alignment with Vladimir Putin. His recent summit with President Zelensky — where Trump and JD Vance tried to humiliate and threaten Zelensky, while pushing pro-Russian propaganda that Ukraine started this war — was an absolute disgrace and an embarrassment to the United States. This is mob boss behavior, not presidential leadership.

Watching this unfold feels like watching the U.S. abandon its democratic allies during World War II and align itself with Nazi Germany. I urge the Senator to denounce Trump’s actions loudly and clearly, rally opposition to his pro-Putin agenda, and use every tool available to prevent him from undermining Ukraine and our democratic allies. The Democratic Party must act like a true opposition party before it's too late, and Ukraine is abandoned to its destruction.

This is a defining moment. The world is watching, and history will remember who stood up to authoritarianism. Please do everything in your power to stop this.

Thank you for your time.

Edited 5 hours ago by DocWatts

[PenguinPablo]

On 2/28/2025 at 11:13 PM, Leo Gura said:

Lex has become so corrupted by his personal friendships with Musk, Trump, and Rogan.

Sad.

Praying for peace doesn't work when you cannot see that your closest friends are devils.

The guy is a fucking idiot with 0 ability to critically analyze and even begin to understand or grapple with the nuances of geopolitical dynamics.

He may be humble, but his naivety is literally at the level of a child. 

He has no business in this arena or interviewing world leaders. 

Stick to tech Lex.

Edited 5 hours ago by PenguinPablo

[Jodistrict]

The is a quote from Zelensky:  

"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war, and they will have to fight because it’s NATO that we are talking about and they will be dying."

Zelensky is trying to drag the US into war.  He is a dictator.    It's time to stand with the peacemakers.  Especially if you are a young American male and don't want to die in another mindless war to enrich the elites.   

Edited 2 hours ago by Jodistrict

[sholomar]

Our populace is too well informed for a large segment of the populace to simply allow their children to be sent off to fight in another banker's war to enrich the corporate machine to defend one cokehead over another at this point.  I'd encourage everyone to not allow their children to be drafted to defend Ukraine. Pointless war defending a nation that is little better than Russia run by a questionable individual who suspended the 2024 election to remain in power.

Let's not forget it was their threatening to join NATO that encouraged Russia to start this war in the first place. There is blame to go around.  Try to see things from the other person's perspective.... would we want a competitor nation installing a regime right on our doorstep? 

Edited 2 hours ago by sholomar

[PurpleTree]

36 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

The is a quote from Zelensky:  

"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war, and they will have to fight because it’s NATO that we are talking about and they will be dying."

Zelensky is trying to drag the US into war.  He is a dictator.    It's time to stand with the peacemakers.  Especially if you are a young American male and don't want to die in another mindless war to enrich the elites. 

Where is the source that he said that?

Also stop the Zelensky is a dictator or you should be banned for propaganda/misinformation.

[PurpleTree]

18 minutes ago, sholomar said:

Our populace is too well informed for a large segment of the populace to simply allow their children to be sent off to fight in another banker's war to enrich the corporate machine to defend one cokehead over another at this point.  I'd encourage everyone to not allow their children to be drafted to defend Ukraine. Pointless war defending a nation that is little better than Russia run by a questionable individual who suspended the 2024 election to remain in power.

Let's not forget it was their threatening to join NATO that encouraged Russia to start this war in the first place. There is blame to go around.  Try to see things from the other person's perspective.... would we want a competitor nation installing a regime right on our doorstep? 

You are an interesting subject to study how easily people fall for Propaganda.

[Ishanga]

30 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Where is the source that he said that?

Also stop the Zelensky is a dictator or you should be banned for propaganda/misinformation.

I think Your the one that should be banned and is spreading misinformation and propaganda.. How can You be so sure Your information source is the most accurate and true?

To say such a thing, on a public forum, your basically saying free speech is not ones right!

Edited 1 hour ago by Ishanga

[Grateful Dead]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

The is a quote from Zelensky:  

"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war, and they will have to fight because it’s NATO that we are talking about and they will be dying."

Zelensky is trying to drag the US into war.  He is a dictator.    It's time to stand with the peacemakers.  Especially if you are a young American male and don't want to die in another mindless war to enrich the elites.   

 

 

Edited 14 minutes ago by Grateful Dead

[Sincerity]

Guys,

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

The is a quote from Zelensky:  

"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war, and they will have to fight because it’s NATO that we are talking about and they will be dying."

Zelensky is trying to drag the US into war.  He is a dictator.    It's time to stand with the peacemakers.  Especially if you are a young American male and don't want to die in another mindless war to enrich the elites.   

Please do not spread misinformation.

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Also stop the Zelensky is a dictator or you should be banned for propaganda/misinformation.

Please stop advocating for banning other members. Report posts that breach Forum Guidelines. We review them all.

41 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I think Your the one that should be banned and is spreading misinformation and propaganda.. How can You be so sure Your information source is the most accurate and true?

To say such a thing, on a public forum, your basically saying free speech is not ones right!

Please stop stirring the pot. Also, as mentioned in the Forum Guidelines...

Quote

This is not a free-speech zone and we will definitely "censor" and ban you if your presence here drags down the overall quality of the forum.

You are not free to spread misinformation here. So please don't.

Thanks.

Edited 1 hour ago by Sincerity

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

The is a quote from Zelensky:  

"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war, and they will have to fight because it’s NATO that we are talking about and they will be dying."

Zelensky's thinking is too self-biased here.

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

He is a dictator.

Don't even.

[Nivsch]

Zelensky has many reasons to feel threatened, stressed and suspicious about Trump's offer as his small and relatively weak country is fighting tooth and nail to survive in the face of Russia. I tried to learn more about this situation since I'm not very familiar with this war, but this is what I mostly feel intuitively about his situation.

Edited 7 minutes ago by Nivsch

[Yimpa]

Crazy how far he’s come! And to think he also came into office with 0 experience…

 

[AION]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

I think Your the one that should be banned and is spreading misinformation and propaganda.. How can You be so sure Your information source is the most accurate and true?

To say such a thing, on a public forum, your basically saying free speech is not ones right!

That @PurpleTree guy is totally out of control accusing everybody of being pro Putin ... Today he accused me of the same thing.... although I have nothing with Putin and I have no affinity with Russia. I think that guy should get a warning for gas lighting and trolling.

Zelensky is a piece of shit comedian putting up a play and it awfully backfired in his face. This guy thinks he can win a war with smoke and mirrors, and with shits and giggles. He is playing a losing game. And everybody who says something about that is accusing of being Pro Putin.

It is a matter of using our brain.

 

5 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Crazy how far he’s come! And to think he also came into office with 0 experience…

 

Most insane thing of that clown is that there are videos of him belly dancing and even a video where he plays piano with his dick. Yea, you read that right.

Edited 2 minutes ago by AION