WATCH: Trump argues with Zelenskyy in Oval Office

[zazen]

27 minutes ago, puporing said:

Democracy has to defend itself with threats from dictatorships to exist in this world. It's basically like defending against criminals.

I'm sorry but you do not even understand basic concepts.

Unfortunately your selfishness and blindness to what is happening is all part of what plays into the hands of dictatorships of the world.

Seems like you would like to live under Vladimir Putin, and that's what you'll get by turning a blind eye.

I’m guessing you took Zelensky’s words to heart when he said to Trump “But you have a nice ocean and don’t feel now, but you will feel in future”. You’re not on the same continent, I am, and have a sober mind about what’s going on.

This kind of rhetoric is catastrophizing a localized territorial conflict in Eastern Europe into some grand ideological battle for civilization itself. Just like Netanyahu does with Hamas and the battle between children of light and darkness slogans. Zelenskys playing the same playbook to get the West to fight his countries war.

If Russia really had ambitions of marching through Europe, it would have to first win in Ukraine. After 3 years, despite Western weapons, intelligence, and funding flooding the battlefield, they’ve just about gotten Donbas and nothing beyond it.

There’s very little evidence that Russia has the capability or intent to even try such a thing as to attempt taking and then holding onto all of Ukraine. A lot of people are taking Cold War paranoia and turning it into a boogeyman that justifies endless escalation towards WW3.

Edited Tuesday at 02:48 PM by zazen

[Consept]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's possible. But the dude is cutthroat in business.  Maybe he's out of his realm when it comes to politics.  I thought that in the beginning but he's a snake as well.  He's too much of a narcissist to be anyone's puppet.  Push comes to shove he will have to exhibit dominance.   That's the whole issue here.  

If you look at Trumps business history, the only real way he's made money is by selling his name, Trump steaks, Trump university, Trump buildings etc etc. If he has a skill it's marketing his name to make it seem valuable so that someone with a business will happily pay him to use it and supposedly increase sales. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's a disaster just depends on the company behind it. But the point is Trump doesn't give a fuck whether its successful or whether it's against any principles that he doesn't even have, he just cares that he makes money. He's endorsed mlms before for example. 

This model is essentially what he does in politics just on a much larger scale, essentially he's for sale, this is why people like Putin, Musk etc were over the moon and definitely in Musk's case, funded him into the white house because it meant they now had easy access to power. Even Vance was Peter Thiel choice for VP. Trump has no morals or principles, he knows how to market, he knows how to enrapture an audience and he's able to leverage this and sell it to the highest bidder. 

Do you think he really cares about gaza or Ukraine, he only sees the leverage he can get from siding with certain players, which he's obviously done. 

[puporing]

@zazen well that's your position which is much more naive to me.

It always starts with "one country", we already had Belarus btw. 

Again plays right into the narrative they feed to make you stop caring and antagonizing the wrong party and being much more soft on the actual invader, lol.

Putin and Trump are the ones starting WW3 on democratic nations, not the other way around. But they'll try to tell you it's the other way around. You're just too gullible.

Edited Tuesday at 02:51 PM by puporing

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, puporing said:

@zazen well that's your position which is much more naive to me.

It always starts with "one country", we already had Belarus btw. 

Again plays right into the narrative they feed to make you stop caring and antagonizing the wrong party and being much more soft on the actual invader, lol.

Putin and Trump are the ones starting WW3 on democratic nations, not the other way around. But they'll try to tell you it's the other way around. You're just too gullible.

It’s quite gaslighty

I mean i do think the West and especially the US made many arrogant errors and mistakes or decisions. Like Iraq and so on. But well we can’t turn back time.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

 

Do you think he really cares about gaza or Ukraine, he only sees the leverage he can get from siding with certain players, which he's obviously done. 

It's better than WW3.  And funding a never ending war isn't good for anyone either.  It's not like Biden confronted Putin directly either.  This doesn't really accomplish anything other than drag out a war.  What do you think Biden would have done if Russia had won?  Nothing.  So a whole bunch of money poured into a failing effort.  If you are going to go in go all in.  Otherwise, strike a deal.   I don't like the way the US went about it with Zelensky.   But then again I didn't like Zelensky's attitude either.  It takes two to tango.  He's not in a position to be bold at this point.  Take a ceasefire .

Edited Tuesday at 03:45 PM by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

54 minutes ago, zazen said:

I’m guessing you took Zelensky’s words to heart when he said to Trump “But you have a nice ocean and don’t feel now, but you will feel in future”. You’re not on the same continent, I am, and have a sober mind about what’s going on.

This kind of rhetoric is catastrophizing a localized territorial conflict in Eastern Europe into some grand ideological battle for civilization itself. Just like Netanyahu does with Hamas and the battle between children of light and darkness slogans. Zelenskys playing the same playbook to get the West to fight his countries war.

If Russia really had ambitions of marching through Europe, it would have to first win in Ukraine. After 3 years, despite Western weapons, intelligence, and funding flooding the battlefield, they’ve just about gotten Donbas and nothing beyond it.

There’s very little evidence that Russia has the capability or intent to even try such a thing as to attempt taking and then holding onto all of Ukraine. A lot of people are taking Cold War paranoia and turning it into a boogeyman that justifies endless escalation towards WW3.

An interesting question would be what would Putin have gotten without Western influence.  Maybe they would have won.  Yet even still, ideas of him then marching through Europe seems like a leap.  I'd slow it down and look at what's on the table today.   Does the US continue to fund this war when Ukraine has a leader who seems unwilling to want peace.. or do we tell them to kick rocks.  Everyone on the left would surely jump to say the US is cuddling up to Russia by doing that.   But maybe it's in the best interest of the US.  The bigger moral question would be - is it America's  responsibility to help the little guy across the sea but open them up to a world conflict, or stick to themselves like they've done before.  Only to be pulled in later.  For now..we can only guess at Putin's goals.  But to your point a stomp across Europe seems unlikely.  

Edited Tuesday at 03:39 PM by Inliytened1

[Joshe]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

LOL.  Where are you seeing that Trump is taking orders from Putin?  Is that more propganda from the left?

I’m not very susceptible to propaganda. I evaluate and consider claims objectively and I use my knowledge of human psychology and devilry in conjunction with logical deduction to arrive at what is likely or possible. If you think the idea that Trump is on Putin’s payroll is insane and has no merit, then you don’t understand the characters in question. First is understanding the characters, but I can tell by the way you talk about Trump that you don’t understand his character, so you likely won’t be able to arrive at this position. A few weeks ago you thought Trump was a well-intentioned, status-quo, merely corrupt—in the way the rest of them are—politician. If you believe that, then yes, this theory would appear absurd. Plus, I detect a cultural/conformist right wing bias in you, which would make it even harder.

Means, motive, and opportunity are there. Plug in all the character variables, history, and reporting, and you have a solid theory. Yes, it's conspiratorial, which turns some intelligent people off, but that's a mistake IMO. 

Edited Tuesday at 04:41 PM by Joshe

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

There’s very little evidence that Russia has the capability or intent to even try such a thing as to attempt taking and then holding onto all of Ukraine.

Russia could never keep Ukraine conquered, the cost of that would be to repress the Ukrainian population at the level of the Soviet Union without any benefit. Russia wants to annex an area where more than 70% of the population is Russian, so it is not necessary to maintain a conquest, it gives an area that what it wants most is to be conquered. Why doesn't anyone realize that? Are world leaders crazy when they invoke the Russian threat, or is it simply a tool of manipulation and control, and an excuse to double investment in weapons?

Why does no one say that the Ukrainians banned the Orthodox religion and were moving towards the marginalization of the Russian language in areas with Russian populations?  Nobody talks about Ukraine politics situation , it's true that Russia invaded Ukraine, but in Ukraine there are a lot of Russian, why banning their religion? There is a war against the Russian population that started in 2014. This is a local conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and all the alarm that's happening in Europe is nonsense, just lies to manipulate 

Edited Tuesday at 04:24 PM by Breakingthewall

[Beans]

15 hours ago, integral said:

This is going to be a long 4 years...

Why the long face? (this is a joke)

 

 

https://www.tiktok.com/@beans0934/video/7477963720182893870?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7477987556051781162

[PurpleTree]

Funny thing is NATO existed as a deterrent against Russia/Soviet for 75 years.

It was basically started by the US.

Article 5 was only used once when the US asked for help after 9/11

As soon as Russia starts to test Europe after 75 years.

America is like "bye guys we’re out you’re on your own“

[Jodistrict]

20 hours ago, Sincerity said:

Guys,

Please do not spread misinformation.

Please stop advocating for banning other members. Report posts that breach Forum Guidelines. We review them all.

Please stop stirring the pot. Also, as mentioned in the Forum Guidelines...

You are not free to spread misinformation here. So please don't.

Thanks.

Here is the clip of Zelensky saying the quote I gave.  I just quoted what Zelensky actually said.   Someone could argue that since this is a clip, it is out of context, and then provide the missing contex to support their argument.   

https://x.com/i/status/1896267384153161880

Edited Tuesday at 04:35 PM by Jodistrict

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, Joshe said:

If you think the idea that Trump is on Putin’s payroll is insane

I think that this is totally wrong. Trump simply sees that the adversary is China and Russia is indifferent to his interests. If he can keep the minerals from Ukraine he will do it and give it to Putin in Dombass because he doesn't give a shit about that. This game is finished, we shake hands, we distribute the cake and on to the next and most important game with China. Ukraine was Biden's project, it was done, it weighed down Germany and the EU, and it is finished, nothing more than gaining there. The only peculiarity of trump is that he's too direct and transparent, far from the diplomacy that's needed in those games, but at the end, same than the others. Just business.

[Jodistrict]

Jeffrey Sachs, a professor and foreign policy expert at Colombia University, gives an analysis of the Ukraine situation.  One has to step back and look at this at a higher level in the context of a complex and changing world.

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:48 PM by Jodistrict

[puporing]

45 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I’m not very susceptible to propaganda. I evaluate and consider claims objectively and I use my knowledge of human psychology and devilry in conjunction with logical deduction to arrive at what is likely or possible. If you think the idea that Trump is on Putin’s payroll is insane and has no merit, then you don’t understand the characters in question. First is understanding the characters, but I can tell by the way you talk about Trump that you don’t understand his character, so you likely won’t be able to arrive at this position. A few weeks ago you thought Trump was a well-intentioned, status-quo, merely corrupt—in the way the rest of them are—politician. If you believe that, then yes, this theory would appear absurd. Plus, I detect a cultural/conformist right wing bias in you, which would make it even harder.

Yes the characters at play are crucial as they are the ones who can decide the fate of humanity.

Someone like Trump has such a thin skin that it would not be beyond such a character to "betray" the US as a democracy ultimately against those who want him out of office. It's "basic psychology" really. Someone like Trump cannot really function in a healthy democracy where people are more educated/aware and less prone to taking up to lies.

He's also probably trying to escape any criminal charges/consequences against him by siding with Russia, that is basically a lawless country and "laws" are decided by Putin himself.

Edited Tuesday at 04:39 PM by puporing

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, puporing said:

Russia, that is basically a lawless country and "laws" are decided by Putin himself

Just some facts: Did you know that Biden pardoned his crack and prostitute addicted son for any crime he might commit? And did you know that that son was a director of Burisma, the largest gas company in Ukraine? Why that guy was a director of a Ukrainian gas company? Did you know that the first thing the Biden administration did after the invasion was destroy Nord Stream 2, the largest underwater construction made by humanity, which connected gas between Russia and Germany? Did you know that they blamed Russia for destroying their own pipeline, but then they admitted that it was their work together with the Ukrainian military? Did you know that after this the US sold gas to Germany at a much higher price? Just facts, easy to verify. 

Who is lawless? Or better, who does the laws?

Edited Tuesday at 05:07 PM by Breakingthewall

[puporing]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Just some facts: Did you know that Biden pardoned his crack and prostitute addicted son for any crime he might commit? And did you know that that son was a director of Burisma, the largest gas company in Ukraine? Why that guy was a director of a Ukrainian gas company? Did you know that the first thing the Biden administration did after the invasion was destroy Nord Stream 2, the largest underwater construction made by humanity, which connected gas between Russia and Germany? Did you know that they blamed Russia for destroying their own pipeline, but then they admitted that it was their work together with the Ukrainian military? Did you know that after this the US sold gas to Germany at a much higher price? Just facts, easy to verify. 

Who is lawless? Or better, who does the laws?

Your takes have been terrible so far.

So whatever you are saying I still trust someone like Biden a lot more than Putin who operates a tightly controlled media and death squad inside his country to off any political opponents.

Edited Tuesday at 05:08 PM by puporing

[Nemra]

@Breakingthewall, you might have forgotten who Trump is and how Trump got in power in 2016 and what he did in the following years.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, puporing said:

Your takes have been terrible so far.

So whatever you are saying I still trust someone like Biden a lot more than Putin who operates a tightly controlled media and death squad inside his country to off any political opponents.

You could follow your heart if you want, but what I wrote were facts, at least take them in account 

[puporing]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You could follow your heart if you want, but what I wrote were facts, at least take them in account 

I will investigate, but your previous discussions with me were not just based on facts, but your obviously brainwashed mind.

And you are also conveniently ignoring facts about media control brainwash and death squad operations. 

Also I never said nobody's free from corruption, but there are degrees.

Edited Tuesday at 05:14 PM by puporing

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Nemra said:

@Breakingthewall, you might have forgotten who Trump is and how Trump got in power in 2016 and what he did in the following years.

I'm not saying that trump is good, I'm saying that what he's doing is just business, same than any other president, but more rough, without diplomacy, like a cheap movie cowboy, but the reality in the end is always the same, business. everything for me, nothing for you, or the least for you