WATCH: Trump argues with Zelenskyy in Oval Office

[puporing]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You know this will end up with a direct confrontation with Russia and the US  and most likely WW3 right?

I think we are already in one if we don't contain it by force fast (by force meaning the threat of or actual troops on the ground to deal with the current conflict).

There're not really many alternatives, if everyone turns a blind eye, Ukraine will be taken, so will probably all the other former Soviet states, and then what?

EU still would have to band together if we kept delaying this, but this time with less manpower and territory.

Edited 9 hours ago by puporing

[puporing]

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Biden didn't try and force him all he did was send loads of money and aid to Ukraine. 

He wasn't wise enough in my view.. but also the rest of EU probably, but again Americans probably don't want their troops there.. so I don't what to say that the wiser choice would've been to contain Putin earlier on. Eg) demonstrate that you outnumber them and push them back on the front lines.

Edited 9 hours ago by puporing

[Hatfort]

1 hour ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Watching the whole interview put alp into perspective. Vance lashed out in the moment Z said that Putin broke the cease fire even during Trump Years. That was the trigger to Vance come up and bullie up. Before that the talk was all Trump Pose as a diplomat.

Is all about keeping  image to the great public. Trump cant lose faith from the ones who idolise him. No one dares to say the devil is not the savior and the perfection embofied. He have a image to keep intact. Otherwise his strong man facade falls.

The press conference started fairly well. Trump praised Ukraine and Zelensky, he wanted the deal signed. Before the discussion started, the least diplomatic thing Trump said was that it was difficult because Zelensky hates Putin and vice versa, which is true. Zelensky was willing to sign the deal, too. At some point, when he lists the presidents, he tells him, "Thank God you were elected again."

But they are two big egos incapable of diplomacy. We all know that's true for Trump. It's also true for Zelensky, who has had ovations, hero treatment, and zero challenges of his positions from Western leaders and the media for three years. He rejected any possibility of a diplomatic route with Russia, which was what Trump and Vance were proposing, and he did it in front of the press. His side of the story is the only valid one and he won't accept anything out of that narrative. But Russia's side has many valid points too, the way CIA, NATO, and Ukraine's most nationalists have been messing the situation, including Trump's Javelin missiles. Merkel, who Zelensky cites as witness of Russia's deceptions, admitted that the Minsk Accords were a mere tactic to give Ukraine time to arm itself.

But Zelensky doesn't want talk, he wants war, his problem is he can't win it. Any future deal proposal from Russia will be worse than today. Russia will pay a price of continuing the war with blood, both sides will, but Russia will charge that price with more land in the end.

Trump was right in questioning the idea that Russia will become a menace to the peace of the USA. Russia can't militarily take, and even less maintain, much more than it has in its vicinity. But it can with Eastern Ukraine, who are culturally Russian in a big part already, and they justify what they are doing as a way to defend these people, and it's not totally out of reason.

For now, it's good the mineral deal didn't take off, but Zelensky was willing to go with it, so it's still a menace for Ukraine to lose its economic control and resources. The deal was giving the US half of the revenues obtained from the Ukrainian minerals, and control over the expenditure of the other half, getting good contracts for themselves, the US contractors, obviously. It's pure economic colonialism, at this point they should even consider if Putin is willing to offer a better deal for Western Ukraine, because that was economic suicide. By the way, this deal didn't mean the end of the war by any means, it had nothing to do with Russia. The war continues, Russia is grabbing more land each day, and it's only going to get worse. So what Trump said that he was handing Ukraine a good card was absolutely false.

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, puporing said:

That made sense to you? Why? 

Putin broke countless (25 I guess) ceasefire agreements. How can the world trust the next one exactly?

This is not like this is the "FIRST TIME" a ceasefire negotiation is signed.

Lmao...The USA broke 500 treaties with the natives as they slowly erased them. Or maybe 370. Im getting different numbers on google

Edited 8 hours ago by Twentyfirst

[puporing]

@Hatfort Your general assessment is not based on a deep study of dictatorships and as well Vladimir Putin and his long history of being a ruthless dictator and crimes against humanity, violator of any notion of "rule of law" both within Russia and externally.

I will just park this here though there are fair number of documentaries:

 

Edited 8 hours ago by puporing

[Yimpa]

 

https://www.actualized.org/insights/why-debates-dont-work

 

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, puporing said:

I think we are already in one if we don't contain it by force fast m

 

I don't agree.   

2 hours ago, puporing said:

I

There're not really many alternatives, if everyone turns a blind eye, Ukraine will be taken, so will probably all the other former Soviet states, and then what?

 

That's a lot of assumptions.  I don't think we're there yet.   I don't believe he is as crazy as a Hitler.  But close.

Edited 7 hours ago by Inliytened1

[puporing]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I don't agree.   

That's a lot of assumptions.  I don't think we're there yet.   I don't believe he is crazy as a Hitler.  But close.

You have to make assumptions based on someone's past history. This is not something you can really escape.

We're not saying it's "inevitable", but what are the probable outcomes.

Edited 7 hours ago by puporing

[puporing]

As well, even if we do not look into the "future".

To me it's morally the correct position to defend Ukraine with the best strategy possible, unless it's obvious we stand no chance.

And it's hard to argue about "morality" if people just aren't on the same page.

Edited 7 hours ago by puporing

[integral]

This is going to be a long 4 years...

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, puporing said:

You have to make assumptions based on someone's past history. This is not something you can really escape.

We're not saying it's "inevitable", but what are the probable outcomes.

Yeah but you're asking the US to force Putin's hand.   That would cause a direct confrontation.  Note in WW2 we didn't do that.  We got involved when it was ultimately necessary.   Thats all that's going on here.  Except Trump doesn't want to spend all this money on Ukraine when a deal can be struck.  Zelensky doesn't really want a deal and maybe rightfully so based on the past.  He feels either it won't be fair or Putin will break it.  But in his current position he may need to drink the kool-aid. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Inliytened1

[puporing]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yeah but you're asking the US to force Putin's hand.   

That's what is happening now with the European alliance, since US backed out at this point. Nobody can force anyone to do anything for this. It is voluntary yes.

That's why it's now called the "Coalition of the Willing".

[puporing]

Well here we go the bomb finally dropped:

To me this is just yet another indication that Trump is working for Putin while telling a lie to its people that it is about its people. Either way this was bound to happen with this guy elected as president. Someone's true colors does not change overnight, it will simply be exposed more and more as time goes on.

USA is quickly turning into the next Republic of Russia by "sleight of hand" (that is the trajectory I see if no major resistance occurs).

What will follow quickly is more economic wars (which are already occurring), or wars to absorb other countries as both Putin and Trump are leaning towards. '

People are reacting way too slowly to what is happening, and this is exactly what the Putin/Trump/Musk alliance is counting on.

It was never about USA, tariffs, etc. It was about these individuals colluding with each other to conquer the entire world basically.

Putin is capturing America way faster than Ukraine.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by puporing

[Frylock]

China wins by doing absolutely nothing.

[puporing]

2 minutes ago, Frylock said:

China wins by doing absolutely nothing.

All dictators are "winning" right now.

 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, puporing said:

Well here we go the bomb finally dropped:

To me this is just yet another indication that Trump is working for Putin while telling a lie to its people that it is about its people. Either way this was bound to happen with this guy elected as president. Someone's true colors does not change overnight, it will simply be exposed more and more as time goes on.

USA is quickly turning into the next Republic of Russia by "sleight of hand" (that is the trajectory I see if no major resistance occurs).

What will follow quickly is more economic wars (which are already occurring), or wars to absorb other countries as both Putin and Trump are leaning towards. '

People are reacting way too slowly to what is happening, and this is exactly what the Putin/Trump/Musk alliance is counting on.

It was never about USA, tariffs, etc. It was about these individuals colluding with each other to conquer the entire world basically.

Putin is capturing America way faster than Ukraine.

 

Stop with conspiracy theories.

[puporing]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Stop with conspiracy theories.

It is predictable that people will criticize me with spreading conspiracy.

But this is just what I have access to from a higher state of consciousness than the rest of you guys.

I am in the position to warn mankind of what is happening, whether they "heed my warnings" or not is out of my hands..

I can only do so much. But I hope that you all try to understand that this is the result of my current state of consciousness.

Nobody understands the devil as well as I do, I can claim that much.

Edited 5 hours ago by puporing

[Inliytened1]

47 minutes ago, puporing said:

It is predictable that people will criticize me with spreading conspiracy.

But this is just what I have access to from a higher state of consciousness than the rest of you guys.

I am in the position to warn mankind of what is happening, whether they "heed my warnings" or not is out of my hands..

I can only do so much. But I hope that you all try to understand that this is the result of my current state of consciousness.

Nobody understands the devil as well as I do, I can claim that much.

Warning noted.   And who precisely is the devil here?  isnt the devil - "relative"?

Edited 5 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Joshe]

50 minutes ago, puporing said:

Nobody understands the devil as well as I do, I can claim that much.

You aren't the only one who can see the devil. Check this out: Russia/Putin has likely even infiltrated spirituality. 

This is from a spiritual book called "Love is Letting Go of Fear". The author traveled to Russia as a part of his book tour back in the 70's, and was assigned KGB agents as "translators", but he didn't know they were KGB agents at the time. The agents were asking for lots of copies until eventually, his supply was running low, so he asked the agents where all the books were going and the agent told him they were being used to "teach English to other KGB agents because the concepts were so new and interesting. 😂

Nah, what was happening was they were trying to figure out if they could weaponize spirituality... and who knows how successful they were. It seems this never even occurred to the author.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Joshe

[Inliytened1]

@Joshe

Which one is the devil though? Trump, Putin, or Zelensky?  Zelensky looks like a dude I could get drunk with at the strip club and he'd screw my girlfriend back home after I passed out.