I think Europe has too many countries

[Alex4]

Putin has a point, and that is that he’s exposing Europe’s weaknesses, and one of them is that it’s hugely atomized, especially in the east. It is an aberration that countries were created just because of small linguistic differences and variations in cooking techniques. Countries should be tools to improve people’s lives, by uniting forces, eliminating barriers and duplicities. Not to hold onto nationalist dreams when many of these nationalisms were created by small elites in the 19th century. I’m not saying we should homogenize cultures, but in the fundamentals we should be united and not have 27 armies.

I believe we should merge countries or at least create confederal unions. Having small kingdoms is like going back to the Middle Ages. The countries I’m proposing should be based on fucking clear natural barriers like high mountain ranges, big rivers, narrow sea passages, islands... Nature has created big geographical divisions out there, it's not difficult to identify them.

Putin, in his twisted way, is trying to recreate the ancient universalism of the Persian Empire. His methods are cruel and he is a mass murderer, but deep down he has a noble motivation.

I’m sure many people would oppose my proposal simply because they wouldn’t see their country on a map anymore, or they wouldn’t be able to cheer for their national football team every 4 years in the Euros. Those are petty concerns getting in the way of creating something better.

Let me know what you think, I’d especially like to hear the opinion of my fellow Europeans citizens, but also everyone else of course.

Edited February 26 by Alex4

[Sincerity]

I pray for a unified federal Europe state.

[MarkKol]

One day

We won’t be the French, German and Polish, but European.

You can still have the Euros in a federal Europe, the Americans have their basketball teams.

 

[FourCrossedWands]

If Europe was just one country, the international sports events would be super boring lol.

Olympics gold medals: Europe - 120, USA - 40, China - 40.

Ice Hockey Championship: Europe, USA, Canada.

etc.

[Alex4]

On 26/2/2025 at 9:40 AM, Sincerity said:

I pray for a unified federal Europe state.

I hope we can achieve it without much suffering. 

[TimStr]

@Alex4

The issue with atomization is not, that there are too many national states and that they are too individualistic. The issue is that when the EU was formend there weren’t really states to begin with but fading colonial empires that had no chance in surviving other than uniting and creating a strong economy together. (The EU economy is actually way larger than the US economy.) But this also means that fragmenting the EU is very advantageous for Russia and the US on a geopolitical level. I hope the leaders of European countries understand this and act accordingly. If EU separation continues, all the individual countries will fade into obsolescence and might even seperate further, like UK (and Scottland, Walse and Northern Ireland).

Timothy Snyder has a great point on this here:

He also points out, that the EU needs a common European history, that is taught in schools, in order to combat atomization. 

Edited February 27 by TimStr

[Bjorn K Holmstrom]

Not only Europe, but the world should be united, on common principles respecting each culture's and peoples differences. 
A layered approach with perhaps a hybrid of direct and representative democracy, with adaptive universal basic income as a base for evening out economic inequalities. A global governance should ensure the common principles are respected and coordinate global efforts, while local countries and communities decide issues at their level.
Imagine the amount of things we could get done by redirecting the efforts spent on war and international conflicts into common purposes.

[PurpleTree]

I think Europe should have more countries 

Germany should be broken up + Bavaria

Spain + Catalonia

Spain, France + Basque

UK + Scotland

and so on. 

[LastThursday]

Scotland and Wales are already countries.

Countries are imaginary. The European Union is just an admission of this fact and in lots of ways acts a de facto country in world affairs, especially economically.

There's benefit to having divisions at lots of different levels, humans are good at dealing with a certain amount of organic chaos. People should be free to able to choose when to be separate and when to be together at any level they see fit.

The one serious downside to countries (nations) is that the division it creates can increase the sense of separation, protectionism and induce potential conflict.

But, fundamentally the Earth itself belongs to no-one and no one person has any more right to a piece of land than any other. Do animals care about international borders?

Edited February 27 by LastThursday

[PurpleTree]

22 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Do animals care about international borders?

Only nationalistic animals like Eagles, Wolves and Snakes.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

Only nationalistic animals like Eagles, Wolves and Snakes.

And German Shepherds.

[LastThursday]

15 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

And German Shepherds.

I believe they're also called Alsatians, Alsace being in France (now). Sorry couldn't resist.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, LastThursday said:

I believe they're also called Alsatians, Alsace being in France (now). Sorry couldn't resist.

For how long will it be in France though? It’s the area in Europe that went back and forth the most i think.

I say Alsace should be its own country.

[Alex4]

2 hours ago, Bjorn K Holmstrom said:

Not only Europe, but the world should be united, on common principles respecting each culture's and peoples differences. 
A layered approach with perhaps a hybrid of direct and representative democracy, with adaptive universal basic income as a base for evening out economic inequalities. A global governance should ensure the common principles are respected and coordinate global efforts, while local countries and communities decide issues at their level.
Imagine the amount of things we could get done by redirecting the efforts spent on war and international conflicts into common purposes.

Exactly!

The expenses would be reduced so much that there would be a surplus for universal basic uncome. The majority of the population could pursue their life purpose or have more free time to do what they want, add automation to this, and I see it as a very achievable goal.

The challenge, I believe, would be staying vigilant against centralizing power that could homogenize cultures. We must unite on essentials (defense, economy, foreign policy, administration) while respecting regional differences.

[Alex4]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I think Europe should have more countries 

Germany should be broken up + Bavaria

Spain + Catalonia

Spain, France + Basque

UK + Scotland

and so on. 

Ethnolinguistic nations could be provinces within each state. For example, Catalonia, Portugal, Basque Country, etc., inside the great Iberia state. Canary Island, and all the overseas territories I would of course sell the land to the nearest country and repatriate our citizens to the metropolis.

Each state should have 40-60 million people

Edited February 27 by Alex4

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Alex4 said:

Ethnolinguistic nations could be provinces within each state. For example, Catalonia, Portugal, Basque Country, etc., inside the great Iberia state. Canary Island, and all the overseas territories I would of course sell the land to the nearest country and repatriate our citizens to the metropolis.

Each state should have 40-60 million people

No each state should have 10 Million.

Like 
Portugal, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Hungary, Greece.

[Basman]

The greater security needs that Europe faces now in the absence of US support has lead to introspection of how to form a stronger Europe it seems.

I don't think changing borders is a good idea if its a top down mandate because people are attached to their national identities. It would feed secessionist thought and only serve to weaken the European collective. You don't want the EU to appear as the big bad globalist technocracy who rapes your culture and forces you to eat bugs. If people freak out you risk another Brexit in the long-term.

The only reason to change borders is to improve productivity somehow, but you could arguably accomplish a lot already just through quality bureaucracy and cooperation. A collective European army could bolster security and cut down on costs for instance.

Edited February 27 by Basman

[Basman]

Europe doesn't need less countries. It needs a stronger European collective identity and integration and there need to be more inter-European business opportunities that make it easier to cross language and cultural barriers. More incentives and reasons to be "European" broadly speaking.

[Human Mint]

Maybe in 400 years.

Just to create a language it takes centuries, it can not be created by some elites. Deals between nations and conscious leaders is the way to go. 

But it is something that will definitely happen naturally.

Edited March 2 by Human Mint

[Ishanga]

On 2/27/2025 at 6:40 AM, Bjorn K Holmstrom said:

Not only Europe, but the world should be united, on common principles respecting each culture's and peoples differences. 
A layered approach with perhaps a hybrid of direct and representative democracy, with adaptive universal basic income as a base for evening out economic inequalities. A global governance should ensure the common principles are respected and coordinate global efforts, while local countries and communities decide issues at their level.
Imagine the amount of things we could get done by redirecting the efforts spent on war and international conflicts into common purposes.

Good post! Research Resource Based Economy and Venus Project by Jacque Fresco.. Its all about getting rid of Government, letting tech/AI control our resources so everyone has the basic needs met, and using Green Power mostly... getting rid of Capitalism, Profit based systems that promote competition, rather than Cooperation between Peoples.. Once that in in play, crime will not exist, ppl will not be spokes in corporate wheels that only care about share holders and profit margins and crap like that.. People once their basic needs are met, that don't have to work at jobs they hate can then explore their true innate talents and creative capabilities, do really what they are here to do, or go full on spiritual and leave this realm lol!!!!