Please either agree or improve these statements

[theleelajoker]

Number and bold writing indicate the statements, bullets clarify. Here we go:

1. All humans problems are either "survival problems" or "acceptance problems"

• Survival problem:  I am starving, I have a deadly illness, I lost my arm and bleed to death right now, I am in danger of falling from a tall building,  etc. In general, humans have a natural desire to survive. Focus on physical side
• Acceptance problem: My partner left me, my dog died, I lost my job, I did not get a promotion, my back is so bad I can't play sports anymore etc.  Focus on mental side

2. Every "acceptance problem" disappears the as soon as we stop resisting reality, fully accept and fully experience what is

• The problem is not related to the direct experience of reality with our senses
• Our problem is not endangering our physical survival
• It's simply that we believe that the world should be different than it is
• More acceptance, less resistance --> we are willing to directly experience whatever is right now - > if I am willing to experience / feel what is right now, there is not a problem anymore because I don't want anything different than what I am experiencing right now
• Example: The mental pain of my partner leaving - it disappears  (at least over time) by simply accepting
• Example 2: OK I am depressed, I feel shitty. What happens if I am OK with that mood? Not a problem anymore, it's just an experience
• Example 2: I am bleeding to death - OK, I accept this but it does not go away by simply accepting. I am still dying.

3. All mental healing techniques, (therapy, coaching, meditation) ultimately serve one purpose: To decrease your resistance, to increase your openness and to increase your level of acceptance of the reality as it is

• Follows from 2.

4. The methods for 3. are dependent on context, individual and cannot be generalized.

• What works for you might not work for me
• What works today might not work tomorrow and maybe works again in two days
• Every person, every situation, every mental structure, every energetic structure has individual characteristics. Solutions must be individual, too
• Everything changes, so our concepts and methods change, too

5. Intellectual understanding can help but has a clear limit

• If you ask "why" long enough you end up at the origin of the universe..and whatever was before that, and before that
• Example: I eat too much when I am stressed. Why? Because I distract myself because I don't want to accept and experience what is. Why? Because I did not learn the techniques and methods to deal with difficult emotions, self-care, acceptance etc. Why? No one told me how. Why? School did not teach me and my parents were bad role models. Why? Because my parents and other people of their era never learned it, too. Why? Because school did not teach them and my grandparents were bad role models. Why? Because school did not teach them and my grand-grand parents... (...)
• Causal and intellectual understanding is always partial understanding. Reality is complex, our mind is limited, human information is limited

6. All "survival problems" eventually can be turned into "acceptance problems"

• You don't fight to stay alive anymore. You accept or even welcome death
• Physical pain most likely remains, mental resistance of dying disappears
• Example: I accept that I bleed to death right now. If dying is OK for me, it's not a "problem" anymore. It's simply happening
• This point is quite abstract and almost purely theoretical. Survival instinct and ability to feel pain is generally very strong in humans

 

Open for discussion. I am especially curios re feedback re Nr 3.

Note: Statements are not "my" insights. Collection of a vast range or sources such as books, movies, conversations, this forum, etc.

 

Edited 16 hours ago by theleelajoker

[Leo Gura]

You are overlooking a whole class of creative, intellectual, and artistic problems.

Let's say you want to build a nuclear fusion reactor. Now you've got a lot of problems there which require solutions which have nothing to do with your personal psychological or survival issues.

Don't make life so much about you.

Edited 15 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u9nuSf9g1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKfkNWDG170

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4_wLkD6_x4

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Raze

[The Crocodile]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Let's say

 

[theleelajoker]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are overlooking a whole class of creative, intellectual, and artistic problems.

Let's say you want to build a nuclear fusion reactor. Now you've got a lot of problems there which require solutions which have nothing to do with your personal psychological or survival issues.

Don't make life so much about you.

Yes, but why build the reactor in the first place?

Either you NEED power to survive. Or because you WANT to, because you want your life to be different than it is now.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Yes, but why build the reactor in the first place?

Either you NEED power to survive. Or because you WANT to, because you want your life to be different than it is now.

Yes, everything hinges on you wanting something. But that is so reductionistic and uninteresting. There are many qualities of desire and care.

Edited 15 hours ago by Leo Gura

[theleelajoker]

31 minutes ago, Raze said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u9nuSf9g1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKfkNWDG170

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4_wLkD6_x4

 

Took a first glance, will watch later. Thx for posting

[theleelajoker]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, everything hinges on you wanting stuff. But that is so reductionistic and uninteresting.

I asked for either confirmation or improvement of the statements. Can't see how your post contributed to improvement.

[Salvijus]

6 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

All humans problems are either "survival problems" 

Maybe death is not a problem. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Salvijus

[Hojo]

Death is both a survival and acceptance problem. If not accepted it will trigger the body to not accept it. It has to be experienced but the body cant let it do that if not accepted.

Im not sure about death with asking why. There is no acceptable answer to accept the reason you will die.

Why will I die? Because I was born?

Why am I damned to a void of nothing for no reason?

Edited 10 hours ago by Hojo

[Letho]

6 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Number and bold writing indicate the statements, bullets clarify. Here we go:

1. All humans problems are either "survival problems" or "acceptance problems"

• Survival problem:  I am starving, I have a deadly illness, I lost my arm and bleed to death right now, I am in danger of falling from a tall building,  etc. In general, humans have a natural desire to survive. Focus on physical side
• Acceptance problem: My partner left me, my dog died, I lost my job, I did not get a promotion, my back is so bad I can't play sports anymore etc.  Focus on mental side

2. Every "acceptance problem" disappears the as soon as we stop resisting reality, fully accept and fully experience what is

• The problem is not related to the direct experience of reality with our senses
• Our problem is not endangering our physical survival
• It's simply that we believe that the world should be different than it is
• More acceptance, less resistance --> we are willing to directly experience whatever is right now - > if I am willing to experience / feel what is right now, there is not a problem anymore because I don't want anything different than what I am experiencing right now
• Example: The mental pain of my partner leaving - it disappears  (at least over time) by simply accepting
• Example 2: OK I am depressed, I feel shitty. What happens if I am OK with that mood? Not a problem anymore, it's just an experience
• Example 2: I am bleeding to death - OK, I accept this but it does not go away by simply accepting. I am still dying.

3. All mental healing techniques, (therapy, coaching, meditation) ultimately serve one purpose: To decrease your resistance, to increase your openness and to increase your level of acceptance of the reality as it is

• Follows from 2.

4. The methods for 3. are dependent on context, individual and cannot be generalized.

• What works for you might not work for me
• What works today might not work tomorrow and maybe works again in two days
• Every person, every situation, every mental structure, every energetic structure has individual characteristics. Solutions must be individual, too
• Everything changes, so our concepts and methods change, too

5. Intellectual understanding can help but has a clear limit

• If you ask "why" long enough you end up at the origin of the universe..and whatever was before that, and before that
• Example: I eat too much when I am stressed. Why? Because I distract myself because I don't want to accept and experience what is. Why? Because I did not learn the techniques and methods to deal with difficult emotions, self-care, acceptance etc. Why? No one told me how. Why? School did not teach me and my parents were bad role models. Why? Because my parents and other people of their era never learned it, too. Why? Because school did not teach them and my grandparents were bad role models. Why? Because school did not teach them and my grand-grand parents... (...)
• Causal and intellectual understanding is always partial understanding. Reality is complex, our mind is limited, human information is limited

6. All "survival problems" eventually can be turned into "acceptance problems"

• You don't fight to stay alive anymore. You accept or even welcome death
• Physical pain most likely remains, mental resistance of dying disappears
• Example: I accept that I bleed to death right now. If dying is OK for me, it's not a "problem" anymore. It's simply happening
• This point is quite abstract and almost purely theoretical. Survival instinct and ability to feel pain is generally very strong in humans

 

Open for discussion. I am especially curios re feedback re Nr 3.

Note: Statements are not "my" insights. Collection of a vast range or sources such as books, movies, conversations, this forum, etc.

 

@theleelajoker Can you please give me approval and not do anything unexpected as I might get really anxious and this box that I'm presenting to you here is the box I want you to focus on not the lube on my desk with the massive stack of my grandads 1960's porn videos?

 

[Reciprocality]

@theleelajoker It seems to me that you first acknowledge the general distinction between necessity and possibility, where survival is the form of necessity and every desire that goes beyond mere survival are the forms of possibility. Then you appear to point out that the distinction is not as strict as it appear at first glance, where a) the solutions to the problems that goes contrary to survival are optional instead of necessary and b) that the general tendency of acceptance of things that are entirely optional is itself a survival mechanism.

My perspective is that a only works if the reason there initially were a desire to survive itself goes away, while b is accurate throughout the process of base survival.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Reciprocality

[Sugarcoat]

It’s not really possible imo to accept everything some things are so inherently suffering that the only way to escape it is to try to reduce it. That’s the reality of humans. We are wired to not wanna suffer. Maybe some superhuman levels of mindfulness is possible in some cases but then that would require tremendous practice. But even then there might be still an aversion to great suffering I don’t think one can truly ever overcome that. Humans are wired to relate to others, themselves and the world with attachments which necessitates the appearance of suffering . Like how we get attachments to people or performing well . It’s physical and mental self survival.

 

One way in my experience to almost completely eliminate mental suffering is to dissolve the many layers of mind, dissolve that mental self

Edited 3 hours ago by Sugarcoat