They are giving Luigi the death penalty

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But there is a case to be made that assassination of important people like CEOs of public companies is legitamately a greater crime and harm to society than killing a nobody in a fit of rage. CEOs have a higher responsibility for serving shareholders and making companies function. It's fun to hate on CEOs, but most CEOs are just doing their job and keeping companies deliver goods and services to people who need them.

Luigi is basically a terrorist, not just a normal murderer. So it does make sense to make an example of him. The legal system does allow example-making for particularly heinous crimes.

Dude I was with you until this.  A murderer is a murderer.   A CEO's life isn't more valuable then an unemployed guy on the street.  The problem is public perception.  No one cares about the guy on the street.  So a bigger case is going to get bigger attention - but it shouldn't be the difference between getting the death penalty or not..yet often it does. 

To that point.  There are many on death row that are low profile - you don't even hear of them unless they end up on Netflix shows such as "I am a Killer".  Which by the way is a great show.

@PurpleTree Look..bottom line is i agree with @Leo Gura that it's a just punishment for the crime - however the law doesn't always allow for it.   Life in prison is the next one down but life in prison allows them to still breath while their victim no longer lives.   They can still learn, think, and develop while their victim is a distant memory.  

So it's not lower conscious to keep the death penalty where it's warranted.  It is probably warranted here- it's just the problem is there's plenty of cases where the killer deserves it but gets off with life. 

Edited Sunday at 09:44 PM by Inliytened1

[puporing]

Well, unevenness of application is inherently unjust, and that may be what is being argued here.

If it was truly even, a lot of people who are kicking around would prob be dead.

Edited Sunday at 09:44 PM by puporing

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Dude I was with you until this.  A murderer is a murderer.   A CEO's life isn't more valuable then an unemployed guy on the street.

It literally is more valuable.

A guy on the street does not create value for society. A CEO does.

You guys have forgotten something very basis: rich people ARE more valuable because they create more value, all else being equal.

Not all people are equally valuable. This is a liberal delusion. A CEO is able to get things done which ordinary people are not. Until you understand this, you will not understand how society works.

Note: do not come at me with arguments about how rich people can be corrupt. Of course they can and are. That is desides the point. Being corrupt and getting things done go hand in hand.

And no, not all murder is the same. Political assassination is a different level of murder.

Edited Sunday at 09:50 PM by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It literally is more valuable.

A guy on the street does not create value for society. A CEO does.

You guys have forgotten something very basis: rich people ARE more valuable because they create more value, all else being equal.

Not all people are equally valuable. This is a liberal delusion.

Lol...that's the whole problem with the judicial system...its corrupt.  That corruption is what you so often rant against right?  The fact that a judge would change a decision based on how wealthy and influential someone is - is the definition of corruption.   A human life is a human life, and the punishment for taking a human life should ideally be the same - (there are of course circumstances which could change this obviously - such as if it is premeditated and such.  But ultimately you are talking nonsense right now.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Laxness on murderers eventually leads to laxness on corruption, laxness on white collar crime, laxness on guys like Trump. It's a culture of laxness which allows corruption to run amok.

Spiral Dynamics integral Blue propaganda.

I'm joking, but this is a very blue take. 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Lol...that's the whole problem with the judicial system...its corrupt.  That corruption is what you so often rant against right? 

It all depends. Don't paint everyone and everything as equally corrupt. Some cases are corrupt and some are not.

Quote

The fact that a judge would change a decision based on how wealthy and influential someone is - is the definition of corruption.

Not necessarily.

Killing powerful people to make a political point might deserve a unique punishment because such action is much more destablizing to society. We do not want to encourage people to think they can influence politics through assassination. This is a very bad precident which you will regret at some point.

Judges are given legal discretion to account for such things. This is not corruption, this is their offical duty. A judge weighs the damage that crimes do to the stability of the community.

Quote

But ultimately you are talking nonsense right now.

No, I am talking about the nuances of the real legal system, rather than elementary school notions of law.

Crimes have variable impacts on the community, as you clearly see in this case where half the country is cheering Luigi on as a hero. This is not a normal murder.

Edited Sunday at 09:59 PM by Leo Gura

[integral]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My argument is maintaining a culture of strictness and seriousness. To prevent the creep of laxity.

You people have forgotten the true value of conservatism. Conservatism is not all MAGA buffoonery.

I think you provided a lot of clarity here, In this specific case I assumed the CEO can be replaced in seconds,

This is his history if anyone is interested.

Quote

Brian Thompson, born on July 10, 1974, in Jewell Junction, Iowa, was a prominent American businessman who served as the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of UnitedHealthcare from April 2021 until his untimely death in December 2024.

Early Life and Education

Thompson graduated as valedictorian from South Hamilton High School in Jewell Junction in 1993. He then attended the University of Iowa, earning a Bachelor of Business Administration in accounting in 1997. During his time at the university, he was recognized as an outstanding accounting student in both his junior and senior years. citeturn0search2

Career

After graduation, Thompson began his professional journey at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) in 1997, where he worked as a manager in the auditing and transaction advisory services group. In 2004, he joined UnitedHealthcare as the Director of Corporate Development, focusing on mergers and acquisitions. Over the years, he held various leadership roles within the company, including Chief Financial Officer for different divisions and CEO of UnitedHealthcare's government programs, overseeing Medicare and retirement services. In April 2021, Thompson was appointed as the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, the insurance arm of UnitedHealth Group. citeturn0search1

Personal Life

Thompson was married to Paulette "Pauley" Thompson, a physical therapist. The couple had two sons and resided in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Despite his professional commitments, Thompson was known for his dedication to his family and his active involvement in his children's activities. citeturn0search1

Tragic Death

On December 4, 2024, Thompson was fatally shot outside the Hilton Midtown hotel in Manhattan, New York City, in what authorities described as a targeted attack. He was in the city to attend an investors' conference. The suspect, 26-year-old Luigi Mangione, was arrested and charged with murder. Mangione allegedly harbored animosity towards the health insurance industry, which investigators believe motivated the attack. citeturn0news7

Thompson's leadership and contributions to the healthcare industry were widely recognized, and his sudden death shocked colleagues and the broader community. He is remembered for his intelligence, dedication, and the positive impact he had on those around him. citeturn0news14

navlistUnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson Fatally Shot in NYC

Quote

Brian Thompson, during his tenure as CEO of UnitedHealthcare from April 2021 until his death in December 2024, faced several criticisms related to the company's practices:

Denial of Coverage and Claim Rejections

Under Thompson's leadership, UnitedHealthcare was criticized for policies that led to the denial of medical claims. In 2021, the American Hospital Association publicly criticized a plan to deny payments for what the company considered non-emergency visits to hospital emergency rooms. Additionally, the company began utilizing artificial intelligence to automate claim denials, which reportedly resulted in patients being unable to receive necessary medical treatments. Reports indicated that the rate of prior authorization denials more than doubled between 2020 and 2022. A class-action lawsuit filed in November 2023 alleged that UnitedHealthcare knowingly employed an AI model with a 90% error rate, leading to significant patient harm. citeturn0search17

Insider Trading Allegations

In May 2024, Thompson, along with other UnitedHealth Group executives, was accused of insider trading. The allegations centered on claims that they sold substantial amounts of company stock prior to the public disclosure of a Department of Justice antitrust investigation into the company. Specifically, Thompson and another executive were reported to have sold a combined total of $120 million in UnitedHealthcare shares four months before the investigation became public knowledge. citeturn0search17

Public Perception and Backlash

Thompson's leadership coincided with growing public dissatisfaction toward health insurance companies, particularly regarding denied claims and perceived prioritization of profits over patient care. This sentiment was evident in the public's reaction to his death; many individuals shared personal stories of denied claims and expressed contempt for UnitedHealthcare's practices. The backlash highlighted the broader societal frustration with the U.S. healthcare system and the role of insurance companies in denying necessary care. citeturn0search20

These criticisms suggest that, during Thompson's tenure, UnitedHealthcare's practices may have contributed to negative societal impacts, including patient harm due to denied medical treatments and ethical concerns regarding corporate governance.

 

Edited Sunday at 09:59 PM by integral

[Terell Kirby]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A guy on the street does not create value for society. A CEO does.

You guys have forgotten something very basis: rich people ARE more valuable because they create more value, all else being equal.

Reading a book called The Meritocracy Trap by Daniel Markovits (picked up his book after watching your blog post on how the elite train their kids).

It has some eye opening studies on how the market has reshaped itself to lend power in income distribution of wages to those who have acquire elite level training and skills from top colleges/Universities (specifically in STEM and finance).

It’s giving me new perspective-yes CEOs and elites offer more value, but it’s not always due to being genetically superior in some sense. Some just had wealthy family who invested seriously in their education and skill development in careers that pay a fortune-a privilege most poor and even middle class children don’t have today.

Late stage capitalism and its failures has its hands in many pots when it comes to wealth inequality-its even more so prevalent in todays meritocracy, which you have have rich parents to even begin to think about adding value as a CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

Edited Sunday at 10:04 PM by Terell Kirby

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Killing powerful people to make a political point might deserve a unique punishment

If the death penalty is warranted by law then it should be enforced by the judge I'm saying that it shouldn't matter how high profile the case is.  The problem i have is not with this case it's with the low profile ones (or, the school shootings, for example) that maybe the guy should be put to death but isn't.  So then when they follow the law with a case like this, it stands out.  

Edited Sunday at 10:01 PM by Inliytened1

[Karmadhi]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It literally is more valuable.

A guy on the street does not create value for society. A CEO does.

You guys have forgotten something very basis: rich people ARE more valuable because they create more value, all else being equal.

Not all people are equally valuable. This is a liberal delusion. A CEO is able to get things done which ordinary people are not. Until you understand this, you will not understand how society works.

Note: do not come at me with arguments about how rich people can be corrupt. Of course they can and are. That is desides the point. Being corrupt and getting things done go hand in hand.

And no, not all murder is the same. Political assassination is a different level of murder.

By that logic lets also condemn the people that tried to assassinate Hitler in 1944

These rich CEO's especially ones in health care have the blood of thousands of innocent people in their hands.

They have created as much human suffering as some dictators have.

Do not confuse a greedy tech guy like Musk with someone who works in industries which have the power of life and death over people.

Human health is a fundamental right.

If Musk wants to overprice Tesla cars because he is a greedy asshole that is a totally different thing from overpricing health care which results in deaths of thousands in USA every year.

People can live without Tesla cars, they cannot live without health care.

I do not condone murder but these health care CEO are one of the biggest issues with USA.

If USA actually had some basic ethics all of them would be jailed overnight for corruption charges.

Edited Sunday at 10:06 PM by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If the death penalty is warranted by law then it should be enforced by the judge I'm saying that it shouldn't matter how high profile the case is.  The problem i have is not with this case it's with the low profile ones (or, the school shootings, for example) that maybe the guy should be put to death but isn't.  So then when they follow the law with a case like this, it stands out.  

Law is not applied so cut and dry. Judges are given lots of leeway in how to apply the law. That's why they need good judgment and superior moral intelligence. Application of law is not a mechanical meat-grinder. It involves consciousness. Of course that can be abused, but it can also be used properly.

Edited Sunday at 10:08 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

It’s giving me new perspective-yes CEOs and elites offer more value, but it’s not always due to being genetically superior in some sense. Some just had wealthy family who invested seriously in their education-a privilege most poor and even middle class children don’t have today.

Yes, but whatever the causes, the fact remains that CEOs are usually hardworking and have necessary skills which few others have. You can invoke inequality of opportunity, but you cannot claim that a CEO is equal to a guy flipping burgers at McDonalds. A CEO works harder than a guy flipping burgers at McDonalds. This is just the reality of business. A CEO is responsible for the jobs of thousands of people and the 401ks of millions of people. That is highly relevant because we are talking about collective survival.

Edited Sunday at 10:14 PM by Leo Gura

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't see that.

Shooting a mass shooter in the middle of his crime doesn't lower us. Neither does shooting him after a fair trial. Life is harsh and serious crime has serious stakes.

People need to be more aware of the serious stakes for toxic behavior. Coddling a murderer does not serve consciousness.

Of course it does lower our consciousness. The death penalty is far more costly and it gives the state the completely unnecessary ability to kill individuals who are defenseless. There is zero benefit to the death penality, and only negatives, like the costliness, the low consciousness attitudes it encourages in people (revengeful thinking and a fundamental lack of compassion and understanding of why people commit such crimes, which means the root cause will not be addressed). There is a reason why more developed societies do not engage in the death penalty, and view it as a violation of their principles of their own humanity. A major downsite is that any system will be flawed, and therefore, innocent individuals will be killed. The death penalty is basically one of the most severe forms of psychological torture there is, and subjecting even one innocent person to it is not worth killing a thousand criminals.

There is also no evidence that the death penalty in any way discourages individuals from committing crimes.

 

I think you are just very pampered and have a dysfunctional relationship to violence. You don't understand violence, partly because of your severe rejection of it. This makes you unable to understand trauma, partly because you never experienced it and likely have little compassion for people who did, and how it transformed them. Therefore, it is easy for you to dehumanize criminals and people who commit such acts, as you do with people who you call ignorant, stupid and so forth. This is apparent from your videos and your expression of disgust towards aggression and aggressive people. 

Life in prison is in no way "coddling" criminals.

 

You are incredibly immature in the way you attempt to deal with undesirable behavior. This is not a surprise though, it seems to be a function of your general sense of superiority and lack of empathy towards individuals you consider "low consciousness".

This is basically the result of years of narcissistic attitudes and dehumanization of individuals who are ignorant, and your general tendencies for arrogance and superiority thinking. 

[Karmadhi]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but whatever the causes, the fact remains that CEOs are usually hardworking and have necessary skills which few others have. You can invoke inequality of opportunity, but you cannot claim that a CEO is equal to a guy flipping burgers at McDonalds. A CEO works harder than a guy flipping burgers at McDonalds. This is just the reality of business. A CEO is responsible for the jobs of thousands of people and the 401ks of millions of people. That is highly relevant because we are talking about collective survival.

A dictator also is hardworking and has skills few others have.

He is not equal to a guy flipping burgers at Mc Donalds.

A dictator is responsible for thousands of people.

So lets condemn and sentence to death people that try to assassinate dictators 

[Scholar]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not all people are equally valuable. This is a liberal delusion. A CEO is able to get things done which ordinary people are not. Until you understand this, you will not understand how society works.

Nobody is denying this. None of this means that the law should operate from utilitarian stance, but from a place of principle. It is essential that these principles are maintained to the highest degree possible, that in the eyes of the law, all men are equal.

 

Yes, everything in society will seek to bias itself towards a self-serving survival agenda. But for the greater system to function, the principles are essential and must be upheld. We cannot have a law that treats rich peopel better than the poor people, and it should be obvious why this cannot be the principled stance, and why society at each point has to do it's utmost to abide by it's principles to the greatest degree possible. 

Edited Sunday at 10:23 PM by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

A dictator also is hardworking and has skills few others have.

He is not equal to a guy flipping burgers at Mc Donalds.

A dictator is responsible for thousands of people.

Indeed.

This point is lost on most liberals.

Never forget the value of a dictator.

Quote

So lets condemn and sentence to death people that try to assassinate dictators 

Assassinating dictators is not the win you want it to be.

Thinking that you can assassinate your way out of a systemic problem is a very childish kind of politics.

Edited Sunday at 10:25 PM by Leo Gura

[Terell Kirby]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A CEO works harder than a guy flipping burgers at McDonalds. This is just the reality of business.

Of course-those are two widely different job descriptions within an enterprise-the higher up, the less number of people are qualified (in a true meritocracy).

I also acknowledge that even if an elite child has an opportunity to attend Harvard Business School-they still need a certain level innate drive, focus and ambition to make the most out of it.

It’s just easy to lose sight of really talented humans who just don’t have access to truly work their way to elite status (which the so called American Dream prides itself off of).

[Karmadhi]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Assassinating dictators is not the win you want it to be.

Thinking that you can assassinate your way out of a systemic problem is a very childish kind of politics.

If the legal system is too corrupt to hold them accountable then what other option is there?

The rich greedy CEO's need to face the consequences of their actions somehow, otherwise things will not change.

Assassinations are a desperate attempt for justice when the legal system fails.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Breathe said:

I'm not saying anything is right or wrong.

All I am saying is that I understand because of where our society is at right now.

Your understanding should also include that it’s still toxic.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The rich greedy CEO's need to face the consequences of their actions somehow, otherwise things will not change.

Assassinations are a desperate attempt for justice when the legal system fails.

Put your theory to the test. Does this assassination actually end up improving healthcare?

I doubt it.