They are giving Luigi the death penalty

[puporing]

5 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Very relatable for me too.

When AI started becoming popular, I told a leftist community (which I am no longer a part of) that anyone who loses their job to AI kinda deserves it.

And then a couple of those morons tried to strawman me as saying that I want those people to die.

Well I think in this case neither side is being very "thoughtful" (to enough of a degree) and just throwing the puck back and forth.

(Truth be told, one cannot be truly thoughtful about these things until one awakens beyond the limited self to enough of a degree.)

Edited 15 hours ago by puporing

[Twentyfirst]

Is governmental assisted suicide just another form of the death penalty?

[Extreme Z7]

@puporingEhh. . . even after putting more thought into it. . . I still believe it.

And I'm an artist. If I lose my job to AI, you won't see me whining about it.

[puporing]

4 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

@puporingEhh. . . even after putting more thought into it. . . I still believe it.

And I'm an artist. If I lose my job to AI, you won't see me whining about it.

Well it's a belief that there's not enough to go around, at this time in history, especially if AI/robotics can be rapidly scaled up.

But hey, I can't change your mind overnight.. can I?

Edited 15 hours ago by puporing

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, that's a great spiritual exercise to do. But that does not equate to legal policy.

You can also execute a murderer without wishing him any ill will personally.

But the death penalty is a corruption of the very concept of justice, except in cases where the societal infrastructure is such that murder is the only option for protecting the society.

Having the death penalty in modern society is just Medieval executions for sheer entertainment.

That's really the reason why people support it... they would rather punish evil-doers than live in a truly just society.

That's why the most developed nations have abolished the death penalty.

The death penalty will likely be seen as being as barbaric as lobotomies and blood-letting in a century's time.

[SwiftQuill]

When the guy who killed George Floyd was arrested, I didn't "feel happy". I didn't feel any deep satisfaction or joy. And it doesn't matter if I'm not American. If that incident happened over here, I would still not have felt happiness.

So I dare you guys go look videos on youtube of the sentencing for the killer. And even go on some woke circlejerks on reddit. Or even go through old tweets.

Look at the way people (not just right wingers, but also - especially so - leftists) responded to it. They celebrated it. To these people, it was something amazing. Some even complained that his sentencing wasn't harsh enough. I remember reading the comments, and feeling actually somewhat disgusted at how happy people were. I get it, a horrible criminal gets caught, and justice needs to be served. But why are you so fucking happy? It truly is a form of sadism.

I'm not saying "Leftists are as hard on crime as Right wingers". I'm just saying that this "fluffy overly compassionate leftist" is a ridiculous caricature.

Maybe it's because I've been more exposed to left wing circlejerks than right wing, but I don't see this behavior as frequently on the right. Not that it matters. I'm not right wing and I'm not here defending the right wing.

I think the difference is the type of criminal. If it's illigal immigration for instance, yeah right wingers will celebrate when those criminals are punished.

[yetineti]

@Leo Gura

I compared to you because you brought yourself into the picture posturing like someone who can relate and understand business better than the average Joe—

Plus, you decided on commenting about what you believe my bias to be so why wouldn’t I comment on yours?

You do run businesses, no?

It does seem like you are still trying to avoid that. You can’t have it both ways and you still aren’t really acknowledging your prior statements. I don’t have time, if you’re just gonna keep deflecting so be it.

Edited 15 hours ago by yetineti

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Notice that you can run a reductio ad absurdum argument against leftists:

If death penalty is wrong because it is cruel, then all forms of punishment should be abolished because they are also cruel. So no one should ever be punished for anything they do because we don't want to make anyone feel bad. If you don't have infinite compassion and kindness for every misdeed you are just a cruel Nazi.

I already said that we need to switch the paradigm away from the concept of punishment altogether.

And that' because the punishment paradigm creates worse societal outcomes.

And analogy in the microcosm is the difference between parents who use corporal punishment on their child versus the parents that teach the child with natural consequences.

You'll find a lot more criminal behavior in the former group than the latter. But the parents that beat their children genuinely believe that they are creating upstanding citizens by beating their kids... and will even attribute the problems in society to the fact that parents are too soft on their kids and don't beat them enough.

And you are like them in your support of the punishment paradigm and support of the death penalty.

[The Crocodile]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He will live another 20 years just to spite the libs.

 

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Based on your logic, if someone murders a person who produces a lot of relative value (like a CEO)... the murderer should get a greater punishment than someone who murders an able-bodied adult of an average value output.

And therefore, if someone murders an elder or disabled person who provides a lower value output (or extracts value from the collective) then that murderer should get less time than if they were to murder an average value output person.

That's the logical conclusion of the hierarchical legal paradigm you're operating off of... that murder charges should vary depending on the relative value that the murder victim produces for the world.

So... death penalty for killing a CEO... then 40 years for killing an able-bodied able-minded average adult who makes enough money to pay taxes... then maybe just 20 years for murdering someone who's physically or cognitively disabled or elderly, or poor enough to take a lot of government services. And maybe an even lighter sentence for murdering children, who only extract from the collective.

And you may say that that's silly and irrelevant to your point... 

But my position doesn't need to be so simplistic and stupid.

My whole position is about strictness and order. Obviously we don't want to create a loophole for murdering disabled people as that would lead to disorder.

There could be extra punishment for abuse of the weakest people or trying to exploit loopholes.

27 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Having the death penalty in modern society is just Medieval executions for sheer entertainment.

That's a strawman which comes from a lack of willingness to step outside the liberal perspective.

You think I get entertainment from the death penalty?? That's not a serious intellectual engagment with my position.

[PurpleTree]

"A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals"

Fyodor Dostoyevsky

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My whole position is about strictness and order. Obviously we don't want to create a loophole for murdering disabled people as that would lead to disorder.

You don't have a position, because you have not explained how the death penalty is in any meaningful way necessary for order. It's just a intuitive stance you assume without feeling the need to justify it.

The correct stance is that the death penalty leads to more disorder.

Edited 14 hours ago by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Scholar said:

You don't have a position, because you have not explained how the death penalty is in any meaningful way necessary for order.

It upholds a culture of strict and clean consequences for heinous crime. It provides a feeling of justice to those wronged and even onlookers. It demands respect for the law.

Very straight forward.

It is not strictly necessary but it offers something of value.

Quote

The correct stance is that the death penalty leads to more disorder.

That is just your intuitive stance.

Doing death penalty well requires lots of order.

Just notice how your mind just refuses to open up to a new perspective on this issue. It's like your mind is cement. Notice how stuck the leftist mind is.

Edited 14 hours ago by Leo Gura

[The Crocodile]

@Leo Gura I take it you're not taking Aurobindo's demonic possession argument seriously.

I could kill Donald using paranormal means. You'll see.

[Vibes]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

He will live another 20 years just to spite the libs.

He'll live 30, the motherfucker survived a shot to the head by a centimeter! 

He actually turned his head half a second before the shot would have killed him.

The devil looks after his own 

Edited 14 hours ago by Vibes

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, The Crocodile said:

@Leo Gura I take it you're not taking Aurobindo's demonic possession argument seriously.

I could kill Donald using paranormal means. You'll see.

Behave yourself.

Do not promote a culture of devilry here.

[PurpleTree]

Probly Elon will make him live 40 with his tech

[Emerald]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But my position doesn't need to be so simplistic and stupid.

My whole position is about strictness and order. Obviously we don't want to create a loophole for murdering disabled people as that would lead to disorder.

There could be extra punishment for abuse of the weakest people or trying to exploit loopholes.

That's a strawman which comes from a lack of willingness to step outside the liberal perspective.

You think I get entertainment from the death penalty?? That's not a serious intellectual engagment with my position.

I'm not say you want to create a loophole for murdering disabled people.

I'm saying that's the natural conclusion of your logic... even if you don't agree with creating a loophole for murdering disabled people.

And you saying that my perspective is liberal is silly as it is so far removed from what liberals or leftists believe.

My perspective is just a reflection of a society that's more aware of the actual consequences of the current punishment-based paradigms we're operating off of.

[The Crocodile]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not promote a culture of devilry here.

I'm just saying, you weren't convinced by it. That when you kill somebody the devils just go to somebody else.

[Leo Gura]

The meta thing that bothers me is that when I try to challenge or poke the leftist paradigm which many here subscribe to, it is resisted and refused with such confidence and closedness.

This is not in the spirit of this work and it will keep you from reaching the higher levels of understanding.

This is not really about the death penalty, this is about something much more important: the lack of flexibility of your mind.

Edited 14 hours ago by Leo Gura