CMV: Canada should join the United States

[LordFall]

As a 29 year old born and raised Canadian, the fact that this deal is on the table is mind blowing to me and the fact that our leaders refuse to consider it double moreso. Here are my full thoughts on it that I posted on the montreal subreddit. 

Short form of my thoughts is I think this deal would be amazing for both americans and canadians and turn us into the greatest superpower history has seen and would solve a lot of America's issues in China rising up to challenge its hegemony. Owning and having full sovereignty over almost the full North American content would give the US a great start to the 21st century especially in an age of geopolitical conflict that's looking more and more like exploiting natural ressources to fuel AI and robots will be the what our global economy is based on in 2030-2050 and Canada has more rare earth minerals than the US.

Let's discuss and if I don't get convinced otherwise I will mount a political campaign to advocate for this movement here in Canada in person as I'm a social media marketer. 

I would ask that you please use the principles of epistemology to debunk my arguments and not use gut feeling emotions as most people do on social media and which makes for poor conversation and educational debate. 

[El Zapato]

Call back in about 4 years or maybe 3 weeks.

[Ishanga]

@LordFall Good post, couldn't agree more..

The Politicians, at least right now, cannot say this is a good idea to join American as one of their states, since it is election time in Canada federally (or will be very soon) and in Ontario (Canada's biggest province population and economically wise), so they won't say it publicly, but I think deep down they see it as a good idea, as they say since the tariff threat came upon us how Integrated our Economies are already, that any hiccup will hurt both sides, and now since Trump is saying he will take away Military Protection from Us, I don't really see any choice other than for us to try to fight it and "stay Strong" and suffer immensely because of it, all over an Identity that is so infused with the American Identity I don't think it is wise to fight what is probably going to happen anyways, why having to suffer it..

I grew up in the 70's & 80's on American TV, Entertainment, News Media and products they sell to Us, we are very very similar to them culturally, I just think we are a few  years behind them on trends, but everything that happens in America happens in Canada sooner or later on all levels.. 

On all level I think it would be a good idea to join them, economically for sure!!!

 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

No, please, as an American, I'm begging you. You Canadians have such a beautiful thing going on, you don't want our Government. 

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

No, please, as an American, I'm begging you. You Canadians have such a beautiful thing going on, you don't want our Government. 

We don't have it so good here either with our government, trust me,,lots of problems, lots of debt, lots of unnecessary situations..and American is not just it government, no country is just their government, a Country is more than that...plus this winter up here is crazy, much rather be in Florida or Arizona than deal with this crap weather anymore lol...

[Rafael Thundercat]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

than deal with this crap weather anymore

A Country is more than That.

[puporing]

Lol. Well you are exactly the kind of fool that Trump wants to target amongst Canadians, and you are playing right into his manipulations to get what he wants. He doesn't give a damn about you, just saying some words to make you think he does. 

And well, you have already failed at "epistemology" miserably for even considering being close to that Clown and Idiot and his associates.

A fool like Trump can go on about "truth" too just like you do.

Also, just because you and a few others want that, the vast majority of Canadians do not (6:30): 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-join-u-s-poll-1.7434317

So your leaders are doing their job, representing the interests of the vast majority of Canadians when they push back on his ongoing rhetoric about getting absorbed by this bafoon and his friends.

Notice that Trump is pitting average Americans against average Canadians in this whole scheme. You are damned if you don't fight back, you are damned if you do.  

Edited Monday at 08:58 PM by puporing

[Ishanga]

@puporing The main point is this, from what I have researched Trump is serious about this, now it may be to guarantee his legacy by adding a large land mass to the US, or it may be because he wants our resources or it may be because of national security, whatever it is he's serious..and he's only been in power for less than a month and look what is happening! Its going to happen whether Canadians want it or not, and the generation that is super patriotic is dying out, the other ones don't know better, they want to fight what is going to happen to only cause more suffering besides the economic tariffs and other such things he is doing..so I ask why suffer it, when its going to happen anyways!

[puporing]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

Its going to happen whether Canadians want it or not

 

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

its going to happen anyways

That's the kind of attitude that feeds the bullies. "Oh I am just gonna sit here and let myself get punched in the face and not even try to do anything".

 

[Twentyfirst]

You just want to be able to move down south where it's warm lol

Jk, but seriously why wouldn't all Canadians just move to SoCal at that point

[Ishanga]

13 minutes ago, puporing said:

 

That's the kind of attitude that feeds the bullies. "Oh I am just gonna sit here and let myself get punched in the face and not even try to do anything".

 

Well If I was fighting Andre the Giant, and could not run then what do You suggest, fight back and make it worse or give in?? 

Canada is too small to fight back, and if we retaliate with counter tariffs we suffer dbl, so what is the strategy to counter this threat??

Find other countries to export our stuff can work but it takes too long to set it up, the next generation would benefit from this but what about this one, what do I do for the next 20 or so years of life, just suffer it?

The US is not a communist or authoritarian country, and we are just like them in most all ways, I see no non benefit to joining them other than losing our sovereignty and national identity, what is more important, quality of life or identity issues??? 

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

You just want to be able to move down south where it's warm lol

Jk, but seriously why wouldn't all Canadians just move to SoCal at that point

no, our money would be worth more, my pay would increase, our access to certain things would increase, and our security would be guaranteed, plus our economy would grow... most all the benefits are economic.

From what I know here with our present day health care system, yes we have free health care but it too slow, and specialist move south to make more money, ppl are sick here and stuck with being sick, unless they can pay out of pocket to see a specialist in the States.. So that is a none issue for me.

Overall its a better move to join them, the weather is a side benefit...many Canadians own property in Florida, I think I heard that we own a ton of property there, its a big %.. this is to get away from the shit weather here in the winter and this winter is really bad and its going to get worse over the years...

Edited Monday at 09:04 PM by Ishanga

[puporing]

13 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Well If I was fighting Andre the Giant, and could not run then what do You suggest, fight back and make it worse or give in?? 

You are just assuming that right now. You are also assuming Americans are "on board with this" just because Trump and MAGA might be. This wasn't even something people voted him in for.

It's just as possible that there are plenty Americans who do not want Canada to be absorbed (by way of respecting our sovereignty) against our wishes, as there are ones who think that's a reasonable stance.

You are also assuming Canada cannot quickly form allies besides USA.

Notice this whole talk is already pitting your non MAGA citizens in both countries against each other for no reason and stoking a needless conflict. That's his whole plan, is to pit people against each other and he can sit and watch.

13 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Find other countries to export our stuff can work but it takes too long to set it up, the next generation would benefit from this but what about this one, what do I do for the next 20 or so years of life, just suffer it?

Again you are assuming it will be 20 years, it could be 1 month, or 1 year, or until such a time Trump is overthrown. The economic mutilation will be on both sides not just one sidedly like Trump claims.

But unlike the Trump administration, the Canadian government does have the interest of its citzens in mind in general (a lot more than your Trump Musk turd duo), and which I trust to enact the most optimal economic policies for weathering this storm. 

Besides that as the average citizen, you can be more intelligent with your spending if your personal finances are not very good.

13 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

The US is not a communist or authoritarian country

It's basically turning into one right now.

You can use the word "democratic" meanwhile acting like an authoritarian dictatorship.

Edited Monday at 09:13 PM by puporing

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, puporing said:

You are just assuming that right now. You are also assuming Americans are "on board with this" just because Trump and MAGA might be. 

It's just as possible that there are plenty Americans who do not want Canada to be absorbed (by way of respecting our sovereignty) against our wishes, as there are ones who think that's a reasonable stance.

You are also assuming Canada cannot quickly form allies besides USA.

Notice this whole talk is already pitting your non MAGA citizens in both countries against each other for no reason and stoking a needless conflict. That's his whole plan, is to pit people against each other and he can sit and watch.

Again you are assuming it will be 20 years, it could be 1 month, or 1 year, or until such a time Trump is overthrown. The economic mutilation will be on both sides not just one sidedly like Trump claims.

But unlike the Trump administration, the Canadian government does have the interest of its citzens in mind in general (a lot more than your Trump Musk turd duo), and which I trust to enact the most optimal economic policies for weathering this storm. 

Besides that as the average citizen, you can be more intelligent with your spending if your personal finances are not very good.

It's basically turning into one right now.

You can use the word "democratic" and "not communist" meanwhile acting like an authoritarian dictatorship.

For our resources to be shipped to other countries besides American it would take years to build the infrastructure, so its not an assumption, even for us to get our oil and natural gas from out west to the east would take years of construction.. plus even within our own country btwn provinces there are trade barriers, I did not know this until this tariff threat came up, so to restructure everything so that we don't export our stuff the US would take years and years of reworking it...anything can happen within those years to make it even longer, another pandemic, another economic crisis, maybe China or Russia invades us in the north, we have no help from the US, so there are too many variables at play, too much suffering will take place to fight it imo...

I didn't want this too happen. my best case scenario would be for us to have something similar to Europe where we have our own sovereignty but share the same dollar (like the Euro) and free trade and travel, and work permits permitted for our citizens to work in either country freely! 

[puporing]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

it would take years to build the infrastructure

It just means you are in a "bootstrapping" mode where you invest a lot more than you are earning for the next few years. 

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

within our own country btwn provinces there are trade barriers

The provinces are rapidly working together to knock them down at the moment, as far as what I'm gathering from the news.

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

anything can happen within those years

Anything can happen in life in general yes. 

Problem is you are assuming that Trump administration will protect you if you were to surrender and become absorbed. I have 0 trust with that man and his associates so I take anything he says as though it came out of a monkey's ass. Though that might be too insulting to monkeys.

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

similar to Europe

There's usually a reason why that didn't happen (yet).

Edited Monday at 09:27 PM by puporing

[LordFall]

54 minutes ago, puporing said:

Lol. Well you are exactly the kind of fool that Trump wants to target amongst Canadians, and you are playing right into his manipulations to get what he wants. He doesn't give a damn about you, just saying some words to make you think he does. 

And well, you have already failed at "epistemology" miserably for even considering being close to that Clown and Idiot and his associates.

A fool like Trump can go on about "truth" too just like you do.

Also, just because you and a few others want that, the vast majority of Canadians do not (6:30): 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-join-u-s-poll-1.7434317

So your leaders are doing their job, representing the interests of the vast majority of Canadians when they push back on his ongoing rhetoric about getting absorbed by this bafoon and his friends.

Notice that Trump is pitting average Americans against average Canadians in this whole scheme. You are damned if you don't fight back, you are damned if you do.  

Be very careful in your use of the world fool and I'll ask you to counter my points if you don't agree with them otherwise your whole post is an irrelevant ad hominem.

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

No, please, as an American, I'm begging you. You Canadians have such a beautiful thing going on, you don't want our Government. 

What exactly do you like about the Canadian government? It's plenty corrupt and has flaws like any other but doesn't have the potential to solve our problems unlike this deal would. 

[puporing]

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Be very careful in your use of the world fool and I'll ask you to counter my points if you don't agree with them otherwise your whole post is an irrelevant ad hominem.

I have to use those words to cut through your mind that is too entangled with Trump's lies right now. It's basically like I have access to a lie detector and you do not, it's not personal like it may seem like.

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

What exactly do you like about the Canadian government? It's plenty corrupt and has flaws like any other but doesn't have the potential to solve our problems unlike this deal would. 

It's all relative. There is corruption here too which I have seen. But in comparison overall much less than the Trump Musk administration. Just the fact that he would continuously try to use coercion tactics to "make/force us" to become the 51st state has absolutely zero integrity and that itself should be obvious to you. 

This is not like some leader asking for permission based on an established relationship.

How this question was raised in the first place matters and says a lot.

Edited Monday at 09:33 PM by puporing

[Ishanga]

@puporing The assumptions are happening on both sides, you too are assuming...

My point is this, since he is serious about this, mentions it everyday and some of his former advisors have down his logic for doing this, I think it is going to happen anyways regardless of what we do, he can make life very hard for us just using economic tools, so why go thru it all, lets see what happens when the tariffs come in in March, then wait a few months, then see the suffering, its bad already without all this stuff happening, Canada is not in good shape, we have a housing crisis, health care crisis, mental health crisis, in major debt and the weather here sucks lol !!!!

So since US is not Russia or China or even worse North Korea, why not just get it done and avoid the Suffering the will inevitably happen if we fight it!!

[puporing]

@Ishanga Nobody's stopping you from moving to the USA. 

Problem is you are acting as though other Canadians want the same. You are only thinking about yourself really.

 

Edited Monday at 09:36 PM by puporing

[LordFall]

5 minutes ago, puporing said:

I have to use those words to cut through your mind that is too entangled with Trump's lies right now. It's basically like I have access to a lie detector and you do not, it's not personal like it may seem like.

It's all relative. There is corruption here too which I have seen. But in comparison overall much less than the Trump Musk administration. Just the fact that he would continuously try to use coercion tactics to "make/force us" to become the 51st state has absolutely zero integrity and that itself should be obvious to you. 

This is not like some leader asking for permission based on an established relationship.

How this question was raised in the first place matters and says a lot.

I think you're coming from a naive stage green perspective where coercion tactics are too mean to use in politics. How do you think military and economic deals go through apart from coercion tactics?

Please address the points in my post otherwise I will restake my claim that you're making epistemological mistakes and have no clue what you're talking about.