CMV: Canada should join the United States

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, puporing said:

Of course he is serious. He's going to try to grab whatever he can get his hands on. Just like Putin and Xi. You guys are so naive just because of the prior friendship with US.

The US as we know it is basically dead. It has been taken over by a completely different administration at this time, until such a time major things change.

this maybe true, I don't think Trump is like Putin or Xi, he's no stone cold killer psycho like those guys, yes he's a megalomaniac of sorts with a huge ego and narcissistic, most all politicians are narcissitic by the way... but what can we do about it, what do you suggest we do about it as Canadians? If we do retaliatory tariffs we suffer, and it will take too long to make other arrangements to get out resources sold to someone else, 

For me this is not about me wanting to become American, its about wellbeing of for myself and others, less suffering has a role to play in that regard, ppl are already suffering it and nothing has happened other than threats, if the real deal happens it will be way worse, or we just let it happen, they have to chose what is more important, wellbeing, or suffering for a long time.. I highly doubt the whole American way of life as it has been over the years of my life is going to change soon or within the next 20 yrs unless there is a nuclear war...

[puporing]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I don't think Trump is like Putin or Xi, he's no stone cold killer psycho like those guys, yes he's a megalomaniac of sorts with a huge ego and narcissistic

I mean ideologically he is, he has no trouble talking about annexing other countries he deems to be weaker than theirs, without their permission just like Putin and Xi. Perhaps he will use different tactics to get it, such as economic ones, but we don't know that either and it's not exactly wise to sit here and wait until "the worst can happen" either you see. To me if you wait for actual invasion to happen it would be too late.

4 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

what do you suggest we do about it as Canadians? If we do retaliatory tariffs we suffer, and it will take too long to make other arrangements to get out resources sold to someone else, 

I suppose it is a learning and growing opportunity. It's like saying when you lose your job, what do you do? You have to adapt and move on don't you? It's a similar thing here, where we will just have to adapt. Like if a business is not doing well, you have to adapt and find some new ways to sustain yourself. I don't think we are in such a "cornered" position like Trump makes it out to be, he will say we are cornered because he wants you to fear them and give up. 

And I'm okay with spending less overall or having a slightly less quality of life because of it. Like what do you really need for basic survival anyway? There was a point in time where there was hardly any "international trade" or more for luxury goods..

In terms of basic survival you don't need very much, I think a lot of that basic survival stuff can be addressed with or without the US. Tariff doesn't mean we stop everything all at once. 

I mean this is where I think citizens can talk to their representatives about this. Especially if mass job losses happen, there will have to be some kind of response, just like during covid for example.

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, puporing said:

I mean ideologically he is, he has no trouble talking about annexing other countries he deems to be weaker than theirs, without their permission just like Putin and Xi. Perhaps he will use different tactics to get it, such as economic ones, but we don't know that either and it's not exactly wise to sit here and wait until "the worst can happen" either you see. To me if you wait for actual invasion to happen it would be too late.

I suppose it is a learning and growing opportunity. It's like saying when you lose your job, what do you do? You have to adapt and move on don't you? It's a similar thing here, where we will just have to adapt. Like if a business is not doing well, you have to adapt and find some new ways to sustain yourself. I don't think we are in such a "cornered" position like Trump makes it out to be, he will say we are cornered because he wants you to fear them and give up. 

And I'm okay with spending less overall or having a slightly less quality of life because of it. Like what do you really need for basic survival anyway? There was a point in time where there was hardly any "international trade" or more for luxury goods..

In terms of basic survival you don't need very much, I think a lot of that basic survival stuff can be addressed with or without the US. Tariff doesn't mean we stop everything all at once. 

I mean this is where I think citizens can talk to their representatives about this. Especially if mass job losses happen, there will have to be some kind of response, just like during covid for example.

That's what I mean about suffering, if we adapt and change lifestyles then that is a suffering of sorts,, ppl are still suffering from covid, teachers are calling in sick and taking leaves because of covid and its been a couple of years since that happened, so imo to do more sacrificing would be too much suffering to bare, why have to do that, its not like the US is Russia or China or north Korea, ppl are migrating to the US because if offers one of the best standards of living available on the planet... This is all about identity with a man made entity, which is foolish imo... we are not going to be joining a rouge or brutal nation for pete sakes, its America!!

[puporing]

50 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

That's what I mean about suffering, if we adapt and change lifestyles then that is a suffering of sorts,, ppl are still suffering from covid, teachers are calling in sick and taking leaves because of covid and its been a couple of years since that happened, so imo to do more sacrificing would be too much suffering to bare, why have to do that, 

Okay firstly we do not actually know what the extent of this "suffering" will amount to. The extent of this is speculative right now. I'm not trying to minimize it, but just to point out we don't actually know what this will look like.

And you are not weighing/comparing this properly with the suffering of being under the Trump administration, losing your own government, set of rules and practices, values. Losing other benefits from a social democratic government that you currently may be taking for granted but is life saving for many people.

Again keep in mind that while this leap may seem easy for someone like you, it may be devastating for other Canadians to varying degrees.

50 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

its not like the US is Russia or China or north Korea, ppl are migrating to the US because if offers one of the best standards of living available on the planet... This is all about identity with a man made entity, which is foolish imo... we are not going to be joining a rouge or brutal nation for pete sakes, its America!!

I'm not so sure it has the best standards of living given the amount of horror stories I hear from there. I think your argument is out of touch with how many Americans feel about their country and survival situation. On that front I encourage you to investigate with real life examples.

It's part of why a turd like Trump got in in the first place, because of how desperate people are and fall for false promises.

It's turning into a dictatorship as we speak. The only major difference is that this is a new shift and there're a substantial number of Americans who knows what's happening and opposed to it.

Edited Tuesday at 12:25 AM by puporing

[Basman]

45 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

... i'm not pro annexing, I'm anti suffering for myself and everyone else!

American chauvinism isn't a magic solution that'll fix all your societal problems. America has itself a lot of issues like bad healthcare. It sounds like you just need to vote for better leaders.

[eos_nyxia]

There are number of issues that could be focused on, including the purely economic.  But let me guess, there aren't that many Canadian women who are signing up to get their reproductive rights taken away. For that alone, even if just for the principle of it, I would give up A LOT materially and economically.

I'm sure we have our conservative women who are either super brainwashed or believe that they would somehow benefit enough from aligning with the current US administration. The joke's on them though, those women are gonna get Serena Joy'ed at best (Handmaid's Tale).

Edited Monday at 11:56 PM by eos_nyxia

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, puporing said:

Okay firstly we do not actually know what the extent of this "suffering" will amount to. The extent of this is speculative right now. I'm not trying to minimize it, but just to point out we don't actually know what this will look like.

And you are not weighting/comparing this properly with the suffering of being under the Trump administration, losing your own government, set of rules and practices, values. Losing other benefits from a social democratic government that you currently may be taking for granted but is life saving for many people.

Again keep in mind that while this leap may seem easy for someone like you, it may be devastating for other Canadians to varying degrees.

I'm not so sure it has the best standards of living given the amount of horror stories I hear from there. I think your argument is out of touch with how many Americans feel about their country and survival situation. On that front I encourage you to investigate with real life examples.

It's part of why a turd like Trump got in in the first place, because of how desperate people are and fall for false promises.

It's turning into a dictatorship as we speak. The only major difference is that this is a new shift and there're a substantial number of Americans who knows what's happening and opposed to it.

The US with all its problems, that Canada has too by the way, as what happens there happens here too, is still considered a high level of living, yes they have major poverty problems, we do too, lots of homelessness in Canada and Toronto, these problems are economic problems and as I've said its all corrupt, the masses do not benefit from the way this economy runs, the rich get richer the poor poorer, its always been this way generally, but there are exceptions, but its much worse in other places than here that is for sure.. so we wouldn't be joining a place much different from the way it is here, and ppl are suffering things anyways, they suffer there failure and success, their loneliness and families/friends, ppl are capable of suffering most anything, this is due to their unconsciousness, not the situations happening around them for the most part!!! 

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, eos_nyxia said:

There are number of issues that could be focused on, including the purely economic.  But let me guess, there aren't that many Canadian women who are signing up to get their reproductive rights taken away. For that alone, even if just for the principle of it, I would give up A LOT materially and economically.

I'm sure we have our conservative women who are either super brainwashed or believe that they would somehow benefit enough from aligning with the current US administration. The joke's on them though, those women are gonna get Serena Joy'ed (Handmaid's Tale).

omg now you bring up abortion rights lol!!!

[puporing]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

are capable of suffering most anything, this is due to their unconsciousness, not the situations happening around them for the most part!!!

That pretty much also goes against your own argument around "reducing suffering" as the basis/rationale for being annexed. 

 

I didn't say we don't have problems or corruption. I keep saying it's a relative matter of "how much". 

What I don't understand is why you feel such a need to drag an entire country along? Why can't people just immigrate if they wanted?

Why do you and OP feel okay to force masses of people to live in basically a different country and have no say?

Forcing masses of people to live in another country against their will is what "annexation" basically means in this case.

Edited Tuesday at 12:10 AM by puporing

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, puporing said:

That pretty much also goes against your own argument around "reducing suffering" as the basis/rationale for being annexed. 

 

I didn't say we don't have problems or corruption. I keep saying it's a relative matter of "how much". 

What I don't understand is why you feel such a need to drag an entire country along? Why can't people just immigrate if they wanted?

Why do you and OP feel okay to force masses of people to live in basically a different country and have no say?

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, I'm just saying that trying to fight it, if that is really what Trump wants, is a hopeless endeavour, we can't do anything to go against unless You want to endure allot of Suffering, its that simple.. why suffer when the States are not that bad of a place to be a part of compared to China or Russia invading us, then for sure we would have to fight against that...

Edited Tuesday at 12:11 AM by Ishanga

[puporing]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

when the States are not that bad

It's pretty bad. You just have blinders on currently that a lot of us do not have.

To me the Trump administration is no different than the Chinese and Russian administration that I do not want to be a part of.

See multiple people in this thread keep telling you it's bad and you just keep ignoring us... Only your opinion about this counts it seems?

Edited Tuesday at 12:13 AM by puporing

[eos_nyxia]

8 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

omg now you bring up abortion rights lol!!!

As a woman, I don't have the luxury to not care about forced birth. Which to be honest, that luxury sounds nice. (Though let's be real, I'm sure the well-offs in the States will find a way to get it done safely.) If it doesn't affect me personally, it potentially affects people I know, and I just generally care too?

Let's just say I have to choose between severely limiting my consumption and the state attempting to force me to bring a life I don't want to bring into this world? It's a no-brainer. Abject poverty it is!

[puporing]

8 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything,

But that's what the Trump administration is proposing that is being discussed, is to forcibly annex Canada through economic means.

That you currently agree with this overall position and approach, as well trying to convince more Canadians that this is okay.

Edited Tuesday at 12:19 AM by puporing

[LordFall]

Women's reproductive rights was one I hadn't considered. I like the idea of basing it on freedom, which path forward has the greatest potential for producing more freedom for citizens of both countries? 

I

[ivory]

Just now, LordFall said:

What makes you say that? Canadian healthcare is mostly get paid by provinces not the federal government. No reason there couldn't be a new body that handles healthcare separately for all the 13 new Canadian states. 

I say that because you don't seem to realize yet that the core of our government is exploitation of it's citizens. In the US, the government is being gutted. All services that protect and serve the American people are being wiped out. Why? Because this is what pleases corporate share holders.

The government is here to serve corporate interests.

[ivory]

They are not your friend. Period.

[aurum]

3 hours ago, LordFall said:

You don't get the politicians you want, you get the ones you have. This deal and nuanced discussion must be had right now before 2027 when the conflict with Taiwan is planned to happen and things are too far gone to make this deal happen. 

The apologetics you do for Trump are grotesque. 

The most serious threat to America right now is in the White House.

[LordFall]

@aurum I think whether you are right or wrong this is the way it's meant to be. There are flaws in the american democratic system and this current administration will serve to stress test them. The future of mankind lies in decentralized power and governance IMO and the american tech scene is the one paving the way for this freer future. Global direct democracy through the blockchain is what this future leads to and I'm all here for it. 

[aurum]

39 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@aurum I think whether you are right or wrong this is the way it's meant to be. There are flaws in the american democratic system and this current administration will serve to stress test them. The future of mankind lies in decentralized power and governance IMO and the american tech scene is the one paving the way for this freer future. Global direct democracy through the blockchain is what this future leads to and I'm all here for it. 

Your tech buddies are looking to build a corporate dictatorship. The power will be entirely centralized, with them at the top.

Contemplate your devilry.

Edited Tuesday at 04:23 AM by aurum

[LordFall]

13 minutes ago, aurum said:

Your tech buddies are looking to build a corporate dictatorship. The power will be entirely centralized, with them at the top.

Contemplate your devilry.

Contemplate your total ignorance where human history has always worked with elites at the top and now for the first time you can actually own the means of production and have smart contract that give you total collective ownership of AI agents that will be most of the labor on earth going forward... 

You and a lot of people on this forum have a massive stage green shadow on this topic and refuse to see it from a stage yellow perspective and integrate the multiple perspectives and trends that are currently converging on earth.