CMV: Canada should join the United States

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, puporing said:

@Ishanga Nobody's stopping you from moving to the USA. You are only thinking about yourself really.

I've thought of it for sure, but I cannot work down there, but thinking of starting my own online business and if it works out I would definitely move out of Canada at least during the winter months, and Toronto is too crazy here, too many ppl not enough space, its chaos here everyday, and guess what we are all thinking about ourselves, I don''t go to work everyday to feed someone elses family, only my own, but in my own way I help others when I can, and overall for the wellbeing of most of the ppl of this country I don't see how fighting this from happening is better than just allowing it too happen, but to each their own...

[puporing]

4 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think you're coming from a naive stage green perspective where coercion tactics are too mean to use in politics. How do you think military and economic deals go through apart from coercion tactics?

Please address the points in my post otherwise I will restake my claim that you're making epistemological mistakes and have no clue what you're talking about. 

I am not naive at all, I know a bully and liar, master manipulator, when I see one. And I know who's playing right into their hands.

You have your reasons for being drawn to Trump and his associates, I will not ask why as that is not the main question, but this is at the core of why you would even desire to be part of that administration.

You cannot separate Trump administration from this "merger question" at this time, it was he who asked it, and it is his administration that would merge with Canada. 

So the real question is not necessarily just about "becoming the 51st state" as much as "do you want to be governed under Trump adminsitration"? 

And for you somehow that answer is yes.

So then your mind can come up with a bunch of things to justify that, regardless of what anyone else says.

Edited Monday at 09:44 PM by puporing

[ivory]

You would not be able to keep your healthcare lol. They'd want private companies to be able to profit off of you.

Feel free to invite it in, you would not benefit from it at all.

[LordFall]

28 minutes ago, puporing said:

I am not naive at all, I know a bully and liar, master manipulator, when I see one. And I know who's playing right into their hands.

You have your reasons for being drawn to Trump and his associates, I will not ask why as that is not the main question, but this is at the core of why you would even desire to be part of that administration.

You cannot separate Trump administration from this "merger question" at this time, it was he who asked it, and it is his administration that would merge with Canada. 

So the real question is not necessarily just about "becoming the 51st state" as much as "do you want to be governed under Trump adminsitration"? 

And for you somehow that answer is yes.

So then your mind can come up with a bunch of things to justify that, regardless of what anyone else says.

You've once more ignored all of my points once again due to what I assume is ignorance of the details.

Canada has plenty of corrupt politicians don't worry about that, I don't need Trump to be an angel for this deal to make sense. 

 

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, ivory said:

You would not be able to keep your healthcare lol. They'd want private companies to be able to profit off of you.

Feel free to invite it in, you would not benefit from it at all.

Yes no free health care, if you dont work for a good company You might be screwed, but healthcare up here is no picnic either, wait times are very long and no specialists or very few, nurse shortages and lots of other issues here with health care, its not all about it being free, there are other things to consider!  

Plus ppl have to take on more responsibility for their health, whenever I got to the hospital, which is not often, I see unhealthy ppl, you can see that they don't take good care of themselves in the first place which is why there are there!!

[LordFall]

3 minutes ago, ivory said:

You would not be able to keep your healthcare lol. They'd want private companies to be able to profit off of you.

Feel free to invite it in, you would not benefit from it at all.

What makes you say that? Canadian healthcare is mostly get paid by provinces not the federal government. No reason there couldn't be a new body that handles healthcare separately for all the 13 new Canadian states. 

[puporing]

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

You've once more ignored all of my points once again due to what I assume is ignorance of the details.

Canada has plenty of corrupt politicians don't worry about that, I don't need Trump to be an angel for this deal to make sense. 

 

Your arguments are mostly a non starter for me because of how much of a corrupt politician/human Trump is, it's not even on the scale for me. He is in the negative zone on the "scale". He probably should go to prison actually if laws actually treated people equally.

The only reason he's in power is because of how much of a manipulator he is and people falling for it.

So while I may share some of your sentiments regarding benevolent alliances, which by the way in no way has to be in the form of annexation like you suggest, I cannot agree with leadership under Trump whatsoever and is a non-starter for me because of how corrupt he and his friends are.

So again, for you to not be able to see this relative differences and peg Canadian politicians on the same level is some extreme blindness to me.

But I know I'm kinda just talking to a wall right now and it's pretty useless. Maybe will help other people on the forum though.

Edited Monday at 10:22 PM by puporing

[puporing]

Notice nobody in Canada is stopping you from immigration to the US.

But you are trying to force the other 90% of Canadians to move in with you, without their permission.

This is where no matter how many arguments you list about what you don't like about Canada, it's fundamentally a lower perspective. Because to the other 90% of Canadians we feel the other way around and do not want to move in with the Trump Administration.

Edited Monday at 10:26 PM by puporing

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, puporing said:

Notice nobody in Canada is stopping you from immigration to the US.

But you are trying to force the other 90% of Canadians to move in with you, without their permission.

This is where no matter how many arguments you list about what you don't like about Canada, it's fundamentally a lower perspective. Because to the other 90% of Canadians we feel the other way around and do not want to move in with the Trump Administration.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything, just stating opinion, if the country decides to fight it and suffer then that is the way it will be, I think its stupid but I am only one person, I've only met one other person that agrees with what I say, most are patriotic, but too me I am not identified with the country of Canada, I would rather just have a life of wellbeing and wish that for everyone, fighting with the Americans will not allow that too happen imo...

[puporing]

4 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Who's forcing anyone to do anything, just stating opinion, if the country decides to fight it and suffer then that is the way it will be, I think its stupid but I am only one person, I've only met one other person that agrees with what I say, most are patriotic, but too me I am not identified with the country of Canada, I would rather just have a life of wellbeing and wish that for everyone, fighting with the Americans will not allow that too happen imo...

Well again like I keep saying, you are assuming life will magically get better for you under Trump and his friends. Perhaps for you somehow it seems like it does because you perhaps are ideologically closer to Trump than the leaders in Canada. 

Life will definitely not get better for certain people in Canada under that administration, as is already proven the case in the US.

Edited Monday at 10:39 PM by puporing

[Ishanga]

Just now, puporing said:

Well again like I keep saying, you are assuming life will magically get better for you under Trump and his friends. Perhaps for you somehow it seems like it does because you perhaps are ideologically closer to Trump than the leaders in Canada. 

Its really got nothing to do with Trump, and as I've said its more for economical reasons why I like the idea, our dollars become American dollars, my pay will be in American $$, that alone economically will benefit me and many others, the other aspect is avoiding more suffering, Trump as a personality and politician I don't really care about, they are all corrupt, they all say one thing and do something else, the whole way of how we do things is corrupt, all the systems we have in place, political, economics, education, healthcare, etc are all corrupt and do not work well for the masses, but wht can I do as an individual? All I can do is be healthy inside myself, Spirituality inclined, live to my highest potential, helps others do the same and enjoy life as it is now, being broke won't get me there, so money is important, but its not everything!

[puporing]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

my pay will be in American $$, that alone economically will benefit me and many others,

This is a pretty silly argument. You assume the American dollar will continue to be valued a certain way if Canada was absorbed. And that this wouldn't create more inflation which basically devalues whatever you think you've gained.

There's no "free magic money". Value has to come from something/somewhere. If you magically got it like you say, it was prob just stolen from somewhere else.

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

they are all corrupt, they all say one thing and do something else.

wht can I do as an individual?

Well then you've just defeated your own argument. If all leaders are the same and corrupt, what's the point of going after another leader like Trump thinking it'll save you? If they're "just the exact same"?

 

Clearly to the other 90% (roughly) of Canadians they do not think Trump is the "exact same".

Edited Monday at 10:53 PM by puporing

[Basman]

People are attached to their culture and country. There is not going to be a peaceful annexation of another country without all parties being on the same page.

I believe Trump's ultimate aim is to become dictator and part of that wowing the hearts and minds of Americans by acting like a king as much as he can as a president. Expressing that he wants to annex Canada, Greenland is first and foremost bluster and not serious policy in my opinion. All the benefits that @Ishanga and others who are pro annexation tout could be achieved through agreements and deals without the fallout that comes with the annexation of a Canada which wishes to stay Canada. The bluster alone from an American president is causing needless division and is degrading Americas reputation as a free and democratic society.

Edited Monday at 10:55 PM by Basman

[aurum]

There is no serious, nuanced discussion to be had about these issues under the current administration. They are not honest actors.

The goal right now needs to be resisting America decline into a criminal corporate autocracy.

[LordFall]

16 minutes ago, puporing said:

Notice nobody in Canada is stopping you from immigration to the US.

But you are trying to force the other 90% of Canadians to move in with you, without their permission.

This is where no matter how many arguments you list about what you don't like about Canada, it's fundamentally a lower perspective. Because to the other 90% of Canadians we feel the other way around and do not want to move in with the Trump Administration.

Our politicians are not arguing it properly. I've never seen an elaborate discussion breaking down the full benefits and drawback. Already 10% of canadians are supporting it without that being done so if it was argued properly I think that would jump closer to 20-30% and potentially over 50% and it'll go through.

Im just figuring out the logical fallacies in my arguments and I will start advocating for this more broadly if I do still think it makes sense at the end of my research process. 

[LordFall]

Just now, aurum said:

There is no serious, nuanced discussion to be had about these issues under the current administration. They are not honest actors.

The goal right now needs to be resisting America decline into a criminal corporate autocracy.

You don't get the politicians you want, you get the ones you have. This deal and nuanced discussion must be had right now before 2027 when the conflict with Taiwan is planned to happen and things are too far gone to make this deal happen. 

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, puporing said:

This is a pretty silly argument. You assume the American dollar will continue to be valued a certain way if Canada was absorbed. And that this wouldn't create more inflation which basically devalues whatever you think you've gained.

There's no "free magic money". Value has to come from something/somewhere. If you magically got it like you say, it was prob just stolen from somewhere else.

Well then you've just defeated your own argument. If all leaders are the same and corrupt, what's the point of going after another leader like Trump thinking it'll save you? If they're "just the exact same"?

 

Clearly to the other 90% (roughly) of Canadians they do not think Trump is the "exact same".

lol this is a merry go round discussion, you say I am assuming, your assuming too, we both are.. As of right now the American dollar is the world currency, that could change or not change we don't know, so what to do, think there is going to be change when there may not be??? That would be dumb imo, so I'll stick to what is, if my $$ becomes American then I am worth more, so is everyone else that is good!

About the corruption all over our society, I cannot do anything about other than just accept it as it is and play the game of it, in my view the game would be better to not fight it and go with it since suffering only comes from fighting with a country as powerful as the US is, we simple cannot do anything really about it, and if we do then we suffer more for it, they will suffer less from it...

Trump isn't the same, he will tell you what he is thinking, he doesn't lie about it, its front and center, the other ones lie about it, they say one thing but think and do something else, so I prefer Trumps style as at the least he gives You for warning about it. No matter who You are, ppl will disagree with You, its the same here, he has his followers and enemies as everyone else in politics or power positions has...

[puporing]

5 minutes ago, LordFall said:

so if it was argued properly

So you are basically a Trump minion doing his work. Great.

5 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Im just figuring out the logical fallacies in my arguments

I pointed them out to you, and the fallacy is fatal. 

But you have zero opening for reflection.

You are trying to manipulate Canadians who can't see through the bullshit, just like Trump is doing.

And anyone who call you out you are just going to blatantly dismiss them. What else can I expect from the likes of you?

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

You don't get the politicians you want, you get the ones you have.

We all know who you sound like with that line.

[Ishanga]

13 minutes ago, Basman said:

People are attached to their culture and country. There is not going to be a peaceful annexation of another country without all parties being on the same page.

I believe Trump's ultimate aim is to become dictator and part of that wowing the hearts and minds of Americans by acting like a king as much as he can as a president. Expressing that he wants to annex Canada, Greenland is first and foremost bluster and not serious policy in my opinion. All the benefits that @Ishanga and others who are pro annexation tout could be achieved through agreements and deals without the fallout that comes with the annexation of a Canada which wishes to stay Canada. The bluster alone from an American president is causing needless division and is degrading Americas reputation as a free and democratic society.

Trumps former advisor Bannon says he is dead serious about Annexing Canada, he said this recently and the reasons are mostly for Security reasons...Everyone can say this or that, we don't know the absolute true reasons why he wants to do what he wants to do.. and i'm not pro annexing, I'm anti suffering for myself and everyone else!

 

Edited Monday at 11:07 PM by Ishanga

[puporing]

Of course he is serious. He's going to try to grab whatever he can get his hands on. Just like Putin and Xi. You guys are so naive just because of the prior friendship with US.

The US as we know it is basically dead. It has been taken over by a completely different administration at this time, until such a time major things change.

"The sheep will spend its entire life fearing the wolf, only to be eaten by the shepherd".

Edited Monday at 11:12 PM by puporing