Debunking SOLIPSISM once and for all

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

It isn't nonduality itself that is toxic tbh. Grasping the interconnectedness of all things is an important facet of awakening.

However, nonduality is sometimes used as a dogma to claim that the self does not exist. It is used to deny the self, and is therefore self-destructive.

To truly grasp the interconnectedness of all things, you must realize that it is only through YOU which all things are connected. And YOU are the only master of your own destiny.

If your approach is to constantly deny the YOU, then your approach is too passive. If your approach is to deny the YOU in others, then your approach is too aggressive.

Well said...

Again belief, or going to one side totally (I am a Non Dualist, or I am a Dualist) is always a bad idea, one has to travel thru the middle path, recognize both concepts and eventually Experientially realize that all is One (Absolute) but as well realize I have a individual Body and Mind to use while alive and here on this relative plane of existence, an embodied Absolute that is here to Experience all that this life has to offer...

Edited Monday at 08:23 PM by Ishanga

[OBEler]

@Ishanga you create right now everything around you with your mind. Linke in a dream but more solid. You then split yourself into you and others. You do that to experience a human life where you and others exist. But you hold yourself and them in your mind over and over again. You animate them including me and you forget that creating part , you make yourself less conscious about that.  You do that So you can enjoy this dream more. Because you dream right now that you are a human being and human beings need a sense of others for survival in this dream world. You don't like this because it threatens your survival so it's dangerous to pursue further. It's a self created barrier so that you will not discover the truth.

And to your brick example:

You imagine a brick , you imagine how heavy this brick is. You imagine how it falls on your imaginary feed. You imagine the pain. You can still say that it's real if you define real as something experienced but It's completely self created. Pure imagination.

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:12 PM by OBEler

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Ishanga you create right now everything around you with your mind. Linke in a dream but more solid. You then split yourself into you and others. You do that to experience a human life where you and others exist. But you hold yourself and them in your mind over and over again. You animate them including me and you forget that creating part , you make yourself less conscious about that.  You do that So you can enjoy this dream more. Because you dream right now that you are a human being and human beings need a sense of others for survival in this dream world. You don't like this because it threatens your survival so it's dangerous to pursue further. It's a self created barrier so that you will not discover the truth.

And to your brick example:

You imagine a brick , you imagine how heavy this brick is. You imagine how it falls on your imaginary feed. You imagine the pain. You can still say that it's real if you define real as something experienced but It's completely self created. Pure imagination.

 

 

Excellent.  Well said.

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, tuku747 said:

Anti-self narratives are self-harm.

You're going to have to die to realize Absolute Truth.  To realize the self was a dream.   But all narratives are imagination.  What is being pointed at can only be found through direct experience.   Narratives are things like religion.   

"indeed. and there's an easy way for god to prove the existence of others. not only can he create life with his omnipotence he can also have that life confirm its independent existence and there is a state of consciousness that is the feeling of absolute truth and god can confirm any fact by saying and Im using this just as an example "with all my omnipotence if this separatw life is indeed another separate being in every sense of the word I will feel the state of consciousness of absolute truth " and so it is that god confirms the existence of others. The power of god is truth itself and truth doesn't lie!"

This reeks of religious dogma.

But this doesn't prove anything @strangelooper.  This is not different from me asking a Christian to prove God and him saying he can prove God because his brother confirms Jesus exists.  Its all belief.  You need to find what is true in your own direct experience via meditation for example - not via belief or dogma.  

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:27 PM by Inliytened1

[Ishanga]

22 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Ishanga you create right now everything around you with your mind. Linke in a dream but more solid. You then split yourself into you and others. You do that to experience a human life where you and others exist. But you hold yourself and them in your mind over and over again. You animate them including me and you forget that creating part , you make yourself less conscious about that.  You do that So you can enjoy this dream more. Because you dream right now that you are a human being and human beings need a sense of others for survival in this dream world. You don't like this because it threatens your survival so it's dangerous to pursue further. It's a self created barrier so that you will not discover the truth.

And to your brick example:

You imagine a brick , you imagine how heavy this brick is. You imagine how it falls on your imaginary feed. You imagine the pain. You can still say that it's real if you define real as something experienced but It's completely self created. Pure imagination.

 

 

Then do it and film it and share it here, find a 30 pound brick, get it dropped from the 5 ft in the air onto your foot, do it if it is so imaginary, but You won't because your philosophy as you explained it above is full of shit!!

Edited Monday at 11:22 PM by Ishanga

[Ishanga]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Excellent.  Well said.

What are my plans in the near future?? If Your imagining me and claim to be awakened then what are my plans??? You should know if Your as awake as You claim to be...

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

What are my plans in the near future?? If Your imagining me and claim to be awakened then what are my plans??? You should know if Your as awake as You claim to be...

Haha..nice one but it's a trick question.   Because if I'm imagining you then you wouldn't have any plans.  You wouldn't have any existence independent of my own Consciousness.   Just as in a night time dream.  Imagine waking up from your dream at night and then remembering one of the characters was asking you to tell them what they were thinking or planning.  Would seem silly yes?  Inside the dream you could play along but you wouldn't have the ability to read minds UNLESS you had that specific ability within the dream which I don't claim and isn't associated with lucidity. 

Edited Monday at 11:38 PM by Inliytened1

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Haha..nice one but it's a trick question.   Because if I'm imagining you then you wouldn't have any plans.  You wouldn't have any existence independent of my own Consciousness.   Just as in a night time dream.  Imagine waking up from your dream at night and then remembering one of the characters was asking you to tell them what they were thinking or planning.  Would seem silly yes?  Inside the dream you could play along but you wouldn't have the ability to read minds UNLESS you had that specific ability within the dream which I don't claim and isn't associated with lucidity. 

You guys that fall into this solipsism trap always use the dream example, imagine Your dreaming and this or that happens but then you wake up and it was just a dream, i challenge You too, drop the big heavy brick on your foot, see how imaginary and dream like it is when it hits your foot.,.none of You will do it because  You know what you say here is complete BS, and that it will hurt bad which is reality biting you in your face!

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

You guys that fall into this solipsism trap always use the dream example, imagine Your dreaming and this or that happens but then you wake up and it was just a dream, i challenge You too, drop the big heavy brick on your foot, see how imaginary and dream like it is when it hits your foot.,.none of You will do it because  You know what you say here is complete BS, and that it will hurt bad which is reality biting you in your face!

That's easily countered because without pain the Infinite dream could not be real.  I wish it weren't true that you are the only Being in existence.  I wish reality were made of matter and the Big Bang really happened.   But the Truth is you're an Infinite, singular God.   Guess it isn't that bad, it's only bad to the ego.  Otherwise it's quite glorious.

Edited Monday at 11:47 PM by Inliytened1

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's easily countered because without pain the Infinite dream could not be real.  I wish it weren't true that you are the only Being in existence.  I wish reality were made of matter and the Big Bang really happened.   But the Truth is you're an Infinite, singular God.   Guess it isn't that bad, it's only bad to the ego.  Otherwise it's quite glorious.

I'll make one correction, we are infinite gods in "Embodied" forms, which means in some ways we are limited, if you identify with the Body and Mind, which most are, If you are not identified with Body/Mind, then you can access via experience the God Field, but only thru experience, at high levels even in the physical realm You will appear to be Super Human with powers and siddhis, but this is a trap too, because the goal is complete liberation from this cycle of birth into a body/mind, then death from it, the rebirth over and over again...

[OBEler]

59 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Then do it and film it and share it here, find a 30 pound brick, get it dropped from the 5 ft in the air onto your foot, do it if it is so imaginary, but You won't because your philosophy as you explained it above is full of shit!!

I won't because it will threaten my survival in a dream I have no control over. You can suffer in a dream. Why should you hurt yourself in your dream? It doesn't proof anything. It's still just imagination at play.

What I say is a philosophy for you but not for awakened ones. You can become directly conscious that you create everything around you. It will be total obvious. No philosophy needed. Do you know why we use the term awakening in spirituality? Have you ever wondered? Because you awake from your dream if your consciousness is high enough.

Edited Tuesday at 12:21 AM by OBEler

[Staples]

Solipsism is true, from a certain point of view.

Solipsism is both true and false. It's a finite metaphysical perspective attempting to grasp the infinite. So of course it is partial. 

But at least it acknowledges the infinite which a dualist has no good explanation for.

Edited Tuesday at 12:50 AM by Staples

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Staples said:

What you say is true, from a certain point of view.

Solipsism is both true and false. It's a finite metaphysical perspective attempting to grasp the infinite. So of course it is partial. 

But at least it acknowledges the infinite which a dualist has no good explanation for.

https://youtu.be/pSOBeD1GC_Y?si=ohK5IbaBTk59ivt9

Solpsism is not a correct term for what is being described.  Solipsism asserts the ego is all there is.  This is obviously not true.  It's a bad word to use.  The more accurate terminology is that it is One Mind - One Infinite Mind.  That exists.  And that this Mind is none other than You.  Not you as the ego but you as Infinite Awareness.  Infinity is the whole reason You as God must be Absolutely Singular.  

Edited Tuesday at 12:52 AM by Inliytened1

[Staples]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Solpsism is not a correct term for what is being described.  Solipsism asserts the ego is all there is.  This is obviously not true.  It's a bad word to use.  The more accurate terminology is that it is One Mind - One Infinite Mind.  That exists.  And that this Mind is none other than You.  Not you as the ego but you as Infinite Awareness.  Infinity is the whole reason You as God must be Absolutely Singular.  

From the POV of god.

Not the POV of a human.

Why does god's POV get special privilege as being more true? 

So technically it's trueeee, from a certain point of view.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Staples said:

From the POV of god.

Not the POV of a human.

Why does god's POV get special privilege as being more true? 

So technically it's trueeee, from a certain point of view.

Ahh..I gotcha now.  You're not wrong.  Duality is Truth.  Separation is Truth.  Oneness is Truth.   All of its Truth.  So you're not wrong.  Form and formless are one and the same.  But see, since both are True depending on perspective the one common demoninator is that the perspectives themselves must actually be One Being taking different form. (Form vs formless)  

So the takeaway is that Oneness can be broken and put back together but that which is truly separate can never be.  I guess it's up to the Explorer to discover if there is actual separation or not.

Edited Tuesday at 01:03 AM by Inliytened1

[Staples]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Form and formless are one and the same

Unless you make the distinction that they are different, which you can.

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I guess it's up to the Explorer to discover if there is actual separation or not.

Yes. But not discover separation, rather create separation.

Creating a distinction = creating reality.

Edited Tuesday at 01:13 AM by Staples

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Staples said:

Creating a distinction = creating reality.

Imagination is reality.  Nice

But do you agree that reality is One by nature and then division is imagined? Ultimately collapsing into One again? Or do you assess that Oneness is just another dream - and that separateness is the ultimate structure of reality?  We are really asking here what is the underlying structure of existence itself.   If you believe it is both ways depending on perspective- than that is your particular worldview.  But see then you still have to explain where the perspectives came from.  Infinity and Oneness are the same thing if you see it through. 

Edited Tuesday at 01:22 AM by Inliytened1

[Staples]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Imagination is reality.  Nice

But do you agree that reality is One by nature and then division is imagined? Ultimately collapsing into One again? Or do you assess that Oneness is  ut another dream - and that there separateness is the ultimate structur of reality?  We are really asking here what is the underlying structure of existence itself.   If you believe it is both ways depending on perspective- than that is your particular worldview.  But see then you still have to explain where the perspectives came from.

I see reality as an infinite matrix of potential distinctions, nested within one ultimate system that is God.

Perspectives are just a collection of distinctions.

Different minds exist if you believe multiple collections are active at any one time.

Reality is one being if you are talking about the system itself, rather than the sub collections.

Edited Tuesday at 01:33 AM by Staples

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Staples said:

I see reality as an infinite matrix of potential distinctions, nested within one ultimate system that is God.

Perspectives are just a collection of distinctions.

Different minds exist if you believe multiple collections are active at any one time.

Reality is one being if you are talking about the system itself, rather than the sub collections.

Thanks for the chat.  I haven't seen you around here before but then I disappear for a while.   Welcome.  You're obviously fairly advanced.   The scary part about reality is that which you mentioned initially.  If God imagines different Minds that's precisely what is true.  Totally.  Not just half true.  But Absolutely.  Totally.   Because there exists nothing behind the scenes

This is the scary, paradoxical, unlimited nature of Infinity.

Edited Tuesday at 01:48 AM by Inliytened1

[Someone here]

Seriously guys 😂? Solipsism again ? I suggest moving all and any threads about Solipsism to the entertainment section..it's literally hilarious at this point 😂.