I decided to stop questioning whether free will exists.

[A Fellow Lighter]

Clearly freewill exists, otherwise why do we experience feelings such as regret? People have a tendency of not wanting responsibility, but at the end of the day we act as though we're responsible (because we are).

[Aaron p]

 

 

[Schizophonia]

It's an illusion, a sleight of hand.

[Aaron p]

1 hour ago, Aaron p said:

It's interesting because it sure feels like I'm making a free will decision when I'm deciding what to do with my day for example. Like today I could have chosen to go to multiple different locations for a drive but I chose to go to this location. It could be argued that this was the best location to come to and that my preexisting capacity for logic predetermined my decision. However it could be further argued that if I really wanted to (having been exposed to the idea that my logical processes predetermined me to come to the best location) I could choose another location just because I wanted to prove that the decision is free. However it could be further argued that this response would be equally predetermined as a meer behavioural reaction l to the idea that I have selected the best location automatically and that this reaction is similarly predetermined by mental processes depending on the preexisting characteristics of my mental faculties (just at one level higher). However it could be further argued that having seen all of these positions I decide randomly to do something completely unpredicted, maybe I go to jump in the ocean naked today completely randomly to prove that the decision is mine and mine alone. However it could be further argued that even this is only a reaction to all the previous presentations of logic and decision-making capacities and that no matter how unpredictable I try to be, the only reason I'm trying to be unpredictable at all is because it is a response to having been called predictable initially, which is of course itself predictable.

 

However I think the idea of predeterminism can become a trap if allowed to influence motivations to do anything at all or make any decisions at all. Also predeterminism itself is a stance and an ideological postulate which should neither be believed nor disbelieved as either are ideological. I would say that the idea of free will being real or unreal is probably already an incorrect premise....possibly linked to the underlying true premise that there is nobody there to have or not have free will. Ironically its nearly like the question of free will itself becomes its own involuntary mental trap, similar to any philosophical theoretical questions based in the premise of the inherently existent self. And then at the ultimate level even believing that the question of free will is its own trap (and the belief in the existence of all traps) becomes one of the final ultimate traps (that also does not exist).

[Paradoxed]

From my understanding, nature is unfolding, things are happening, but the mind copes. Biology is playing itself out. The ego tries to take credit for outcomes through the illusion of decision-making.  Their is an illusion of self and illusion of choice. When you live from a delusional place of ego, these choices, opinions, decisions, etc feel so important. It is true that everything that has happened needed to happen to get you to where you are now. But did you will yourself there? These "choices" are really just some expression of consciousness so to speak. There are many things that can wake you up to the lack of control you as a self hold, as life is rather unpredictable. You are the entire experience of what is happening. Are you deciding this? There is also a paradox here.. as you relax and live from a less egoic place and let go of certain desires your outcomes become much "better" so to speak and you actually seem to get more "choices" because you are undoing your conditioning and healing the subconscious mind which affects your outcomes more than your day to day decisions. We feel that we are deciding because we made a decision but we don't consider that it could be already decided from a higher place or a deeper place in you.

[zurew]

On 2025. 02. 18. at 3:49 AM, Eskilon said:

But let's say it can be explained by something, in that case you would also need to provide explanation to that something and so on ad infinitum, otherwise you are just making stuff up(and you always are lol). So the answer here is yes and no. Its a strange-loop

No not necessarily, because under my semantics, explanations doesn't have to have an explanation. There is a difference between saying X explains choice Y vs choice Y doesn't have any explanation at all.

But to be more precise, I can put it this way - running back the exact same scenario multiple times (same circumstance, same environment, same preferences etc), where you are presented with the exact same options, do you have the ability to choose a different option ?  if yes, then I would categorize that as free will.

Edited February 21 by zurew

[UnbornTao]

The problem is that it is a closed-circuit questioning, as it already presupposes and holds the existence of your self (notice the separation) as real and solid, and, above all, as already "known." So, my claim is that currently you are clueless as to who or what is supposed to be the subject of free will or lack thereof. You just take what you hold yourself to be for granted. 

Beyond intellectual claims, you live as though what you do has consequences, and you likely experience yourself as having a say in the matter, so act with intelligence. 

I suspect this conversation could be used to justify all kinds of shit, and wonder why it is undertaken in the first place. It can be titillating, though. 

[Will1125]

On 17/02/2025 at 5:16 PM, _Archangel_ said:

@TruthFreedom Free will exist and doesn't exist doepending on the POV.
It exist in day-to-day life as an attribute of poeple, as a concept.
On a further investigation though, it is simple to realize that the Ego is not free in any of its "choises" because there is just too much unconscious content possibly dictating them. So the "choosing" does happen but is not truly free.
In other words, rather that onto individuals i would say that Free-will can get attributed to a sort of law of Coherence, or Logos that coordinate every aspect of the reality process in a seemingly logical way. 

Thats so fucking well said congratulations