Met A Famous Only Fans Girl

[Consept]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Most men would be pretty happy about this, lol. We are fairly hard-wired to enjoy as much sex as we can get regardless of circumstance. There just isn't any amount of sexual objectification that's going to start to bother us.

I don't actually agree with this, we want attention from women we find attractive but imagine if unattractive to you women, older women etc were aggressively hitting on you daily, people that you work with or family friends, whoever. It's extremely uncomfortable, it might be flattering once in a while but daily would be hell. 

It hasn't happened to me daily but it has happened and I honestly didn't like it, if I have no intention of wanting to sleep with them, it's just a complete inconvenience at best. There's a group of women that I interact with because of let's say a social club and I know they're attracted to me and they are attractive but they have partners. In all honesty it is flattering but also a bit awkward, I wouldn't change cos it's a nice ego boost and it's not that much of an issue but if you extrapolate that to multiple situations I don't think it's something you'd really want. But then on the flip having no one attracted to you is probably worse. Point is I think men think it's all roses and you'll just fuck everyone given the chance but it's not as clear cut as that 

[Sugarcoat]

When something is emotionally triggering or loaded for us it warps our perception of the other person so you think you’re just listening to them but it’s being filtered through your own world view you’re attached to so you hear a biased version of it. 

[gettoefl]

22 minutes ago, Consept said:

I don't actually agree with this, we want attention from women we find attractive but imagine if unattractive to you women, older women etc were aggressively hitting on you daily, people that you work with or family friends, whoever. It's extremely uncomfortable, it might be flattering once in a while but daily would be hell. 

It hasn't happened to me daily but it has happened and I honestly didn't like it, if I have no intention of wanting to sleep with them, it's just a complete inconvenience at best. There's a group of women that I interact with because of let's say a social club and I know they're attracted to me and they are attractive but they have partners. In all honesty it is flattering but also a bit awkward, I wouldn't change cos it's a nice ego boost and it's not that much of an issue but if you extrapolate that to multiple situations I don't think it's something you'd really want. But then on the flip having no one attracted to you is probably worse. Point is I think men think it's all roses and you'll just fuck everyone given the chance but it's not as clear cut as that 

There are tons of men who are on the hunt to have sex with anyone - any age any weight any state any time. I can say they will have sex with anything. If people with a pulse are not available, that is fine -  they will be happy with dead corpses. If the dead are all safely 6 feet under, just wheel in the farm animals.  No standards are needed to get that nut.

Edited Monday at 08:54 PM by gettoefl

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

There are tons of men who are on the hunt to have sex with anyone - any age any weight any state any time. I can say they will have sex with anything. If people with a pulse are not available, that is fine -  they will be happy with dead corpses. If the dead are all safely 6 feet under, just wheel in the farm animals.  No standards are needed to get that nut.

😂😂😂 I believe you I've seen it myself, but I dunno I just couldn't do it at some point a wank just makes more sense 

[Jannes]

11 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

There are tons of men who are on the hunt to have sex with anyone - any age any weight any state any time. I can say they will have sex with anything. If people with a pulse are not available, that is fine -  they will be happy with dead corpses. If the dead are all safely 6 feet under, just wheel in the farm animals.  No standards are needed to get that nut.

I have such a friend. "I will fuck everything." 

[Jannes]

Good ol JP teaching us about the importance of abstinence.

 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

What you are not considering is:

Women clearly want to be objectified to some degree. Women enhance their own attractiveness and seek out the desire of men. If a woman receives none she will feel left out and offended. The same woman who wears a skimpy outfit to the club and complains about drunk guys hitting on her, would be devastated if she goes out and all night no one approached her and they just approached her friends. This is essentially what the average man’s experience is, his sexuality is not valued.

Male sexuality is also demonized. Unless he does it smoothly in the right context it is often demoniz3d as predatory or a nuisance. 

Men are objectified in their own way, usually as “success” objects or “entertainment”. Because men are expected to provide and intimate they feel like they have to put on a song and dance and prove their worth to women who just sit and judge them, and decide their worth based on their personal success.

 

The "being used for money/status" is probably the closest that men can feel to the type of objectification that women are subjected to. And I'm sure that can bring up lots of negative feelings and resentments around being used.

But when it's your body/identity that's being objectified, there's a more all-encompassing disempowerment and de-subjectification. And you don't have the money, status, and power to mitigate this disempowerment.

But there is a lot of tension in the desire to be beautiful and be seen as powerful through the lens of beauty... and trying to avoid objectification.

Like, I've been on both ends of that tension... where sometimes the desire to be beautiful and centered in my Feminine power has won out. But it attracts a lot of unwanted attention that can be quite disempowering. And there's always a lot of resistance even when I do step into that.

And I remember, at age 13, when I had spent my whole childhood wanting to feel beautiful... I finally started to match the beauty standard and getting male attention. And it was immediately a really negative feeling.

And I would eat a lot of food when I was a teenager. My metabolism was good at the time, so I was still just on the higher end of normal, weight-wise. But I would have had to lose about 15 lbs to fit the beauty standard... which would have been easy if I just ate normally.

It's only in retrospect that I can recognize that my dietary habits back then were what they were, because I was trying to avoid all that negative attention where I get treated as an interchangeable sex doll. There was also a lot of negative attention from jealous girls in my classes.

I also had a really strong judgment towards the people who I knew who were obsessed with dieting. And I think that judgment towards them was also a way to avoid being proximal to the beauty standard.

I'd also dress in ways that weren't universally appealing... but that I felt beautiful in. Like I made my own goth inspired style out of stuff that I'd buy at thrift stores and do all sorts of stuff with my make-up. 

Now that I'm in my mid-thirties, I find now that looking very ordinary helps me feel safer and hidden away. But there's still the tension of wanting to step into my full power and allowing myself to fully embody what feels like me aesthetically.

And I'm in a less vulnerable state now than I was before. But there's still an aversion to beautifying myself... but a desire as well.

[eos_nyxia]

On 2025-02-12 at 8:22 PM, BlessedLion said:

-OnlyFans stars literally see their followers as cash symbols and that’s all. For the most part they couldn’t care less about the men that follow them, their mental health, or financial situations 

-Typically they actually have their life together, with a stable partnership, money (from the losers they exploit), and supportive family. Compare that to the men who get addicted to their content causing strain in relationships and self worth, financial issues, and addiction. 

-They almost get off on how much attention they get and that they can make money off the guys following them. Especially the couple OnlyFans

I mean.... if you take away both the appreciation for male attention and liking and needing the money, what is there left for many women, especially when it comes to casual sex?  Statistically speaking, it's certainly not orgasms, lol. What is the payoff beyond satiating your initial curiosity, if you're not getting pleasured like a man while also dealing with the risks you deal with as a woman?  

Besides, if you enjoy sex like the stereotypical man, you typically get shamed for that (in mainstream society, not talking about niche social circles). Being promiscuous and not being socially maneuvering (like "manipulative", or obfuscating what you do) is not often a winning combination.

So you give freely as a woman (but like, not to too many others!), and you don't even get a basic, human level of respect where you get seen and treated as an actual person? What is the point? It's a sucker's deal. At least sex workers (who are not being trafficked and have some level of economic choice when it comes to their profession) are getting something concrete in return. Sex is literally a transaction, as in, the transaction of physical, emotional, and subtle energies. This doesn't just have to be under a capitalistic framework (though modern casual sex very much is). Even at its most "spiritually elevated" and mutually beneficial state, things of value must be exchanged for it to be valuable. This includes actual, mutual pleasure and emotional affirmation.

Typically, the men are not offering enough value for what they are asking for in the way they are asking for it, so that is where the money comes in.

Edited Monday at 09:11 PM by eos_nyxia

[Schizophonia]

7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

The "being used for money/status" is probably the closest that men can feel to the type of objectification that women are subjected to. And I'm sure that can bring up lots of negative feelings and resentments around being used.

But when it's your body/identity that's being objectified, there's a more all-encompassing disempowerment and de-subjectification. And you don't have the money, status, and power to mitigate this disempowerment.

But there is a lot of tension in the desire to be beautiful and be seen as powerful through the lens of beauty... and trying to avoid objectification.

Like, I've been on both ends of that tension... where sometimes the desire to be beautiful and centered in my Feminine power has won out. But it attracts a lot of unwanted attention that can be quite disempowering. And there's always a lot of resistance even when I do step into that.

And I remember, at age 13, when I had spent my whole childhood wanting to feel beautiful... I finally started to match the beauty standard and getting male attention. And it was immediately a really negative feeling.

And I would eat a lot of food when I was a teenager. My metabolism was good at the time, so I was still just on the higher end of normal, weight-wise. But I would have had to lose about 15 lbs to fit the beauty standard... which would have been easy if I just ate normally.

It's only in retrospect that I can recognize that my dietary habits back then were what they were, because I was trying to avoid all that negative attention where I get treated as an interchangeable sex doll. There was also a lot of negative attention from jealous girls in my classes.

I also had a really strong judgment towards the people who I knew who were obsessed with dieting. And I think that judgment towards them was also a way to avoid being proximal to the beauty standard.

I'd also dress in ways that weren't universally appealing... but that I felt beautiful in. Like I made my own goth inspired style out of stuff that I'd buy at thrift stores and do all sorts of stuff with my make-up. 

Now that I'm in my mid-thirties, I find now that looking very ordinary helps me feel safer and hidden away. But there's still the tension of wanting to step into my full power and allowing myself to fully embody what feels like me aesthetically.

And I'm in a less vulnerable state now than I was before. But there's still an aversion to beautifying myself... but a desire as well.

Our entire relationship with others is objectification.

[Schizophonia]

I never understood the point of this website.

Edited Monday at 09:26 PM by Schizophonia

[eos_nyxia]

Quote

-I had a deep insight around porn and the whole industry in general. It’s not the women who are being exploited, it’s the men! They see you as a loser, and the whole relationship that seems to be happening is simply an act. They don’t care at all about the men who follow them, and even get off on exploiting your sexuality and weakness. 

This is especially a late-stage capitalism issue, isn't it?

At least one person has already brought it up in this thread. I mean.... how many corporations and company owners truly care about their consumers? Is every waitress who works at Applebee's a shitty and immoral person because they serve junk food there?

A woman's gotta eat somehow. Unmigitated greed is a separate issue.

Quote

Anyway. The whole thing made me sick. Obviously she said none of this directly but I picked up on it. It turned me off permanently from the whole industry as it’s in actually quite immasculating, cuck-y and pathetic to give your time energy and money to these exploitative whores. 

You're right, it's better to get it from women who are likely getting a raw deal...

Quote

Just my take, I’m sure some of you will disagree. But really, at some level they have to know that what they are doing is not a NET positive to the world.

For what it's worth, I respect women who are called to the "sacred prostitute" role, which is an extremely ancient archetype that is older than the Abrahamic religions (e.g. Cult of Isis adjacent prostitution). In this incarnation, it deserves to be treated respectfully as a social service profession, like being a therapist or counsellor, or perhaps a massage therapist. By default, this eliminates many exploitative behaviours on the part of providers. At the very least, someone who is serving others in this way deserves respect for what they do for others, both from their clients and society at large.

Edited Monday at 09:29 PM by eos_nyxia

[something_else]

55 minutes ago, Consept said:

I don't actually agree with this, we want attention from women we find attractive but imagine if unattractive to you women, older women etc were aggressively hitting on you daily, people that you work with or family friends, whoever. It's extremely uncomfortable, it might be flattering once in a while but daily would be hell. 

It hasn't happened to me daily but it has happened and I honestly didn't like it, if I have no intention of wanting to sleep with them, it's just a complete inconvenience at best. There's a group of women that I interact with because of let's say a social club and I know they're attracted to me and they are attractive but they have partners. In all honesty it is flattering but also a bit awkward, I wouldn't change cos it's a nice ego boost and it's not that much of an issue but if you extrapolate that to multiple situations I don't think it's something you'd really want. But then on the flip having no one attracted to you is probably worse. Point is I think men think it's all roses and you'll just fuck everyone given the chance but it's not as clear cut as that 

I think most men would take the deal of getting hit on by 90% people they weren't attracted to if they also got hit on by 10% that they were. Even the times I've been complimented by girls who I wasn't particularly attracted to, it still made me feel very good.

[Princess Arabia]

49 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

There are tons of men who are on the hunt to have sex with anyone - any age any weight any state any time. I can say they will have sex with anything. If people with a pulse are not available, that is fine -  they will be happy with dead corpses. If the dead are all safely 6 feet under, just wheel in the farm animals.  No standards are needed to get that nut.

Lol

[AION]

51 minutes ago, Emerald said:

The "being used for money/status" is probably the closest that men can feel to the type of objectification that women are subjected to. And I'm sure that can bring up lots of negative feelings and resentments around being used.

But when it's your body/identity that's being objectified, there's a more all-encompassing disempowerment and de-subjectification. And you don't have the money, status, and power to mitigate this disempowerment.

But there is a lot of tension in the desire to be beautiful and be seen as powerful through the lens of beauty... and trying to avoid objectification.

Like, I've been on both ends of that tension... where sometimes the desire to be beautiful and centered in my Feminine power has won out. But it attracts a lot of unwanted attention that can be quite disempowering. And there's always a lot of resistance even when I do step into that.

And I remember, at age 13, when I had spent my whole childhood wanting to feel beautiful... I finally started to match the beauty standard and getting male attention. And it was immediately a really negative feeling.

And I would eat a lot of food when I was a teenager. My metabolism was good at the time, so I was still just on the higher end of normal, weight-wise. But I would have had to lose about 15 lbs to fit the beauty standard... which would have been easy if I just ate normally.

It's only in retrospect that I can recognize that my dietary habits back then were what they were, because I was trying to avoid all that negative attention where I get treated as an interchangeable sex doll. There was also a lot of negative attention from jealous girls in my classes.

I also had a really strong judgment towards the people who I knew who were obsessed with dieting. And I think that judgment towards them was also a way to avoid being proximal to the beauty standard.

I'd also dress in ways that weren't universally appealing... but that I felt beautiful in. Like I made my own goth inspired style out of stuff that I'd buy at thrift stores and do all sorts of stuff with my make-up. 

Now that I'm in my mid-thirties, I find now that looking very ordinary helps me feel safer and hidden away. But there's still the tension of wanting to step into my full power and allowing myself to fully embody what feels like me aesthetically.

And I'm in a less vulnerable state now than I was before. But there's still an aversion to beautifying myself... but a desire as well.

The thing is that most guys know they are getting used for their money, status or what they can provide to the women. In fact most women admit they look at a guys career and stuff and I don’t think there are men who resent this or get offended by this. So your comparison doesn’t hold up. We are all being objectified and subjectified to a degree. There are exceptions and true love exist but most love relationships are beneficiaries. 

Edited Monday at 09:59 PM by AION

[eos_nyxia]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

What you are not considering is:

Women clearly want to be objectified to some degree. Women enhance their own attractiveness and seek out the desire of men. If a woman receives none she will feel left out and offended.

There is the human desire to be seen along with the desire to do the seeing. You could say that there is a very feminine, primal desire that centres strongly around being seen though, which is a deep and contentious issue for many, many women, to the point that it fragments us at a core level, alienating us from our own bodies, depriving us of the belief in our own agency, and robbing us of the potential to be unfettered in our personal expression and sense of feminine power. The way in which we are looked at forms a part of this sort of toxic but affirming feedback loop. It's like a quick sugar rush with an injection of poison and violent nausea. IMO the more of this there is ("cheap, dehumanizing, low-quality male attention"), the more the poison effect becomes impossible to ignore.

The younger and more inexperienced you are, the more this desire is superficial and limited in scope for both sexes. As you get older and more experienced, your needs tend to get more extensive and complex (though some people stay where they are as if stuck in a loop for decades, if not their whole lives). Do you know what this is usually called when people stay the same? Stunted. Immature. But when you've not had the opportunity to feel truly seen or do the seeing, then you start fetishizing every last scrap of attention, even the idea of it. I'm saying this as an observation, not a judgment.

This is at the core of the issue, isn't it? All the men who feel like sex is a way of truly being "seen" and having your being affirmed in a fundamental way, if not the ONLY way. It was never just about getting off or getting physically serviced, or else so many men wouldn't have a problem with paying for it (because this is often viewed as "illegitimate" or pathetic by some) or the women who sell sexual services. You feel like you NEED THIS to be whole, to be a man, to be empowered, to truly experience life, etc. If this is how you feel, no wonder you feel like women-at-large are holding you hostage.

Quote

The same woman who wears a skimpy outfit to the club and complains about drunk guys hitting on her, would be devastated if she goes out and all night no one approached her and they just approached her friends. This is essentially what the average man’s experience is, his sexuality is not valued.

Conflicting drives, we all tend to have them until some combination of time or effort sorts it out. For many, it never gets truly sorted out.

But many women learn to embrace invisibility, even as they might have some deeply lingering, conflicting feelings about it. It's just that.... you're not looking at all those other women, are you?

(Wouldn't it be nice, to have a world where we feel free to be truly seen, and to see others truly?)

Edited Monday at 10:19 PM by eos_nyxia

[RendHeaven]

On 2/14/2025 at 1:40 PM, BlessedLion said:

Yes, and they use their eyes in a hypnotic way to exploit men even further. It’s beyond just porno mags, it’s an illusory relationship and it’s ruining the souls of many men. 

@BlessedLion and if you point this out to the guys, they actually defend their "relationship" and are physically unable to see that it is fabricated/illusory/exploitative. Leading to people like princess saying that "see they actually want it so it's fair!"

the unconsciousness is several layers deep. It's not just that these men are exploited, it's that they defend their own exploitation because they actually think their relationship is real, and if you try to show them that their relationship is fake, YOU are somehow blamed for misreading the situation. 

And deep down, these men would kill for a real relationship - that is all they've ever wanted, but they think they've got it already which caps their self esteem and love life, and it's all designed in a way where if you try to free them, you are in the wrong. The one true ally these men have (people like you) are painted as the villain.

On 2/14/2025 at 3:23 PM, Vynce said:

So why would any model "care" about her followers. Go deep into her perspective and ask what consequential experiences she would had. 

@Vynce Of course she doesn't care! That's the whole point!

Nobody is complaining that "she should care"

That's not the problem.

The problem is that she pretends to care, when she clearly doesn't. It's a matter of reporting the truth.

We're not asking women to care more about us. We're asking women to report the truth accurately.

If you don't care about me, that's perfectly understandable, but don't lure me with fake promises

[Princess Arabia]

@RendHeavenYou will never know the truth unless you've lived this life. I've been dealing with this kind of thing for 20+yrs and i have massive experience with different types of men in all areas in this field and similar fields. I'm not talking out my ass and I myself have been shocked over and over again by the things some of these men like, want and are attracted to. It varies and the adult industry caters to all different types.

Most of you guys are talking from speculation and probably how you personally feel about the business. I'm speaking from direct communication, direct interactions, personal stories, friends stories and just overall knowledge of the business and its different levels. OF patrons will be different than strip club patrons who will be different from massage parlor patrons who will differ from escort patrons who differ from internet porn watchers, who may differ from street walker fans to high end hooker fans to.....you name it and everything in between and combined.

So whatever I've said, I'm speaking from what I know to be the case and then some. I'm the one dealing with these men you're not, even though there are different types; and of course, I'm only in my small little circle compared to the millions who enjoy these services. A lot also has to also do with age, marital status and if they are single, amongst other things. The adult industry caters to a wide variety of different types of men and what they're looking for.

So, yes, I said what I said but all I've said is the case for a certain breed of men and what they are attracted to in the field. OF is just one avenue for them to explore. That said, yes, you will find the delusional men that seek out adult workers for relationships and look to find real love. That's on them and are very few and afar compared to the many that are just looking to fulfill a fantasy they cannot get elsewhere.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:07 AM by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

@RendHeavenWhy would a man look to a prostitute for love and care. You say of course she doesn't care and youre not looking for her to care but don't lure you with fake promises. Sounds weak and not putting responsibility on yourself as an adult. Do you know how many men have promised women this and that and lied to them just to get in their pants. Do you know what those women did, they grew up and stopped believing in the lies, took responsibility and started to vet these men and not give in as easily. What do you do. Complain that these workers are lying to you. Food industries lie everyday.about what's in their food. These are adult workers for Christ's sake, leave them alone and go get you a real girl if you don't want them lying to you. Real girls will lie even more but atleast the working girls are upfront with their lies from the get go by you knowing they are working.

 

 

[Princess Arabia]

"I don't care about you. I hate you and you disgust me. I'm only pretending to care so I can get your money". Really? See how.well that works for business in any field. @RendHeaven

[RendHeaven]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

There is probably that jealousy too. 

I honestly wish that men could experience a reality where they're constantly being sexually objectified from the age of 13 onward with all sorts of women of all ages trying to get with them every time they went into public from age 13 to early 30s.

It's a really horrifying experience, tbh. And I don't think men can get a clear sense of what that's like. It's something you have to experience first-hand to empathize with, I think.

It's like being a drug and a significant portion of the population are out-and-proud desperate junkies that want to use you for their next fix. 

So when women are upset at being objectified, it probably feels like a brag from the male perspective.

It's like if a person who never knew when their next meal was going to be was jealous of someone who was constantly being tied down and force-fed a bunch of food they don't want to eat. (and food represents sexual attention in this metaphor)

@Emerald I do have a moderate degree of empathy for a woman's situation as you describe, since I've been subject to the other side of the equation at times.

Especially during my university years, I got a lot of attention and advances from frankly unattractive girls. And I struggled to say no back then because I was part of a big social circle and I didn't want to rock the boat. These girls would run up to me and grab my arm (thinking they were being cute - they were not.), constantly ask to hang out, and generally hovering around me and trying to get frisky. They would make poorly timed sexual jokes and insinuations (of us being together) and I remember the gut curling feeling of my eyes darting and wondering how to dodge that insinuation without hurting her feelings or ruining our friendship. 

At one point I was developing what I thought was a genuine platonic friendship with this one girl, when one night she gets real close and asks for a makeout. Unfortunately for her she was not attractive. My stomach drops and I try to gently say "no I don't see you that way" and I tried to pat her on the shoulder as a passifying move, but apparently she didn't want my pity because she literally ran away crying and never talked to me ever again (so much for our multi-month relationship with deep late night talks)

After graduating, I moved to the more liberal city of Denver CO where LGBT is more openly celebrated and commonplace. In that city I got hit on by gay guys to a traumatizing degree. I still get a nasty shiver down my spine just thinking about it. I learned a lot from my time in Denver. It forced me to grow thick skin and iron boundaries.

For example one time I met a homeless guy in his 50s who was conveniently perched on my path to work, and he had a decent degree of outgoingness and a spark in his eyes which made me interested in hearing his story. I actually went out of my way after work to stop by and say hi and to hold a 5 minute convo with him every day. He was a veteran, a father, and held grand new age beliefs and had a fundamentally optimistic heart. 

Until one day he straight up asked me for a physical intimate relationship point blank. I didn't even know he was gay/bi(?). And he didn't bother to ask if I was gay (I am not). He just basically said "I want your body" and jesus fucking christ, just those words were so violating. I turned him down and never spoke to him again because everything about that just felt intuitively wrong. From that day on I deliberately took a longer path to and from work every day, because I didn't even want him to notice me.

The common thread for me with all these gay guys is that I actually thought I was building a real friendship. They were all unassuming guys with no glaring red flags. And then down the road after I figured they were harmless, they all pulled off their scooby doo villain mask and cornered me for my body. Maybe my gaydar just sucks (honestly you can't tell in Denver - even the straight guys act queer lmao) but there is also something very sleazy about the fact that these guys flip-flop on their intentions at their whim without informing me. 

I imagine a woman's experience is like this, but x100 worse. 

And me at that time unfortunately kept running into these uncomfortable situations over and over because I was in a new city, I wanted real friends, I was working on opening my heart to people (spiritual path) so I was always giving the benefit of the doubt to people.

And at that time, even when my gaydar could pick up on the fact that someone was gay, I would ignore it because I figured "there's no harm in being friends! there's nothing wrong with them being gay, I need to learn to accept everyone!" ...until low and behold, almost like clockwork, they start testing my boundaries, making me MASSIVELY uncomfortable, and then I basically start avoiding them, and all the weeks and months of "friendship" up to that point turned out to be a waste of time and energy.

As of now I basically have no tolerance for gay men in my close circle. I love and accept them as they are, but only from afar - because they're all children of God so to speak, but that doesn't mean I owe them friendship or access to my vulnerable inner life, because they consistently use that as a way to eventually try to pull a fast one over me.

Oh yeah like the time my childhood best friend, a guy named Henry who I knew since 3rd grade, years later came out as gay, and then when we were around age 21 he reached out to me and we reconnected and spent a lot of time voice calling. I agreed to go travel to Oregon state and meet him at his house because it's been a long time, and then suddenly he starts insinuating that we would do sexual things together (like "i only have one bed but it's ok we can share it I can't wait to see you" or "you're so handsome I would get so hard if we were in the same bed")

Needless to say I promptly rejected him and said "bro i'm not gay" and then this guy had the gall to get SAD, he literally started pouting and I really started questioning life like this must be a big cosmic joke wtf am I experiencing right now lmao

The reason I'm sharing this is because I think I do have a genuine hint of direct experience with the woman's POV. 

What further complicates things though, is that I'm still a straight man with raging hormones myself. As much as I'm sharing my displeasure with "unattractive girls and gay men," the irony is that there is a finite category of humans that I cannot help but objectify and worship - i.e. "attractive girls"

And so zooming out, I see that I'm really no different than all the people I am repulsed by. They are doing to me what I want to do to attractive girls. But I have always been meta-aware and emotionally sensitive in this way. I dare not do to others what so deeply disturbed me. 

So around the age of 22 I settled on the false conclusion that sexuality is an ugly thing (because of all of my negative experiences, and how violating it felt to be the target of sexual objectification) and so I basically repressed my own desires towards attractive girls. After all, it's not fair to her if I end up being like that homeless guy. It's better for her if I just stay away, I don't want to hurt her with my untamed desire.

But of course, that causes me to twist into a pretzel of agony because I still really really really want these girls. I'm getting unwanted sexual advances from one side; I'm blocking my own sexual desire on the other side; and the whole time I'm lonely.

Eventually I reach the conclusion that I have to start pursuing the girls I'm attracted to - for my own sanity. But this was difficult to backwards engineer. Because I wanted to be very careful not to be like that homeless man. I had to do a massive amount of inner work in the span of 1-2 years to stop viewing my own sexuality as an ugly thing. 

It's OK that I want really pretty girls. They're beautiful, I'm beautiful, we can be beautiful together. Sounds obvious in hindsight but god that took grueling emotional labor to lock in, because my instinct is to assume that I'm being an ugly gross creature for so much as having a simple authentic sexual desire. And be honest - society fuels this negative self-imagine reinforcement in young men. 

Nobody celebrates a man's sexual desire anymore. My baseline assumption was that I was ugly and wrong for having these desires, and then everywhere I looked, people were reinforcing that view. Girls were always complaining about men, acting disgusted that we are attracted to their bodies. And I myself have experienced the violating displeasure of being an object of sexual gratification. 

It's honestly a really lonely journey to pick yourself up off the floor and to be your one and only cheerleader. Leo's work with epistemology and deconstructing concepts really helped. I had to cut through all of the programming and really feel into what this desire I had actually is. It was so refreshing to finally see my desire as it actually is. It was a pure force much like magnetism or gravity. No wrong or evil anywhere to be found. But my journey was not over because now I had to actualize this insight in real life. If my acceptance of my own sexuality was like a tiny candle light, I had to nurture and grow this flame while shielding it from nonstop rain and wind (forces telling me that I am wrong or bad or ugly for feeling the way I do, and reconciling what felt like hypocrisy - that I am repulsed by other beings being sexual towards me, but ironically I myself am a sexual being)

Funny enough, when I got my balls together and decided that I am justified as a beautiful sexual being, I ran into yet another brick wall because I would talk to women and be too direct lol. Because I was really careful not to mislead them or to lie to them. So I basically came swinging out of the gate by verbatim announcing that I find them beautiful and that I want to build a relationship with them. To my surprise, this got me ghosted. A LOT. Lol. 

So I understand deeply this bitter sentiment by men that "women love to play games" or "nice guys finish last" or whatever. Because it takes enormous courage to be a self-advocate and to put yourself out there and to pursue a woman. After getting over ourselves, and listening to the women around us, we gather that we should be brave and honest. Be yourself! Shoot your shot! So we go out there and show our hand. The cards are all on the table. And then she vanishes. LOL. Hopefully you can have some empathy for the man's POV here, even though it's terribly biased.

But I was careful not to get bitter or to point fingers at the external. I gathered over time that by being so literal and honest, I was coming across as logical, predictable, and boring. Announcing all the good things I want to build with her from the get-go feels almost manipulative from her POV (even if I meant to be sincere). She doesn't want me to promise her a bunch of dreams, she just wants to feel who I am NOW.

So I learned overtime that honesty is not bad per se. It's still good to be honest. But there is a difference between autistic honesty and context-appropriate honesty. I learned (and am still learning) to keep most things to myself, and to give her the space to get curious about me. 

Learned the hard way that most women are cats and not dogs lol.

10 hours ago, something_else said:

I think a lot of men would enjoy this, not hate it. But we are safe to enjoy it because we don't have to fear for our safety when random women show interest.

@something_else You would hate it if they had dicks.