Met A Famous Only Fans Girl

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

I think a lot of men would enjoy this, not hate it. But we are safe to enjoy it because we don't have to fear for our safety when random women show interest.

My issue with OF is more to do with the scam side of it. Like where you have an organisation running an OF account for a girl with managers that will message men pretending to be the women to try and lead them on and extract more money from them.

If you're just an independent OF creator then that's your hustle and you do you. I'll never pay for it but you're not really harming anyone. It's when it gets to the point that you're misleading, lying or manipulating beyond a certain line that I think it becomes a problem. Kind of equivalent to a man lying about his profession, income, or coming up with random lies to get a woman to sleep with him.

I see your point here and am with you 100% here. That's disgusting and shouldn't be allowed. If this is the issue that most men are referring to with the scamming and manipulating I can see how they'd be upset, but if it's just because of the job itself and how they're making their money, and calling it a scam and manipulative, then that's where I have an issue. But what you've said, I totally agree, that shouldn't be the case.

[something_else]

15 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I see your point here and am with you 100% here. That's disgusting and shouldn't be allowed. If this is the issue that most men are referring to with the scamming and manipulating I can see how they'd be upset, but if it's just because of the job itself and how they're making their money, and calling it a scam and manipulative, then that's where I have an issue. But what you've said, I totally agree, that shouldn't be the case.

The line is very blurry. I imagine it's very tempting to sacrifice more and more of your ethics to make money as an OF girl.

Most, from what I understand, are trying to find whale clients who they make the majority of their money from. By whale clients I mean guys who pay lots of money for specific things. I'm sure some of those guys know what they're doing and are fine with it, but I have serious suspicions that in many cases they are being led along in some way. Whether this is OK or not is really hard to judge. Like I said, the line is blurry.

It just seems like it would be hard to stick to an ethical code as a girl on OF when there's so much money to be made by dropping your ethical standards.

Edited Monday at 04:44 PM by something_else

[Princess Arabia]

14 hours ago, Emerald said:

I honestly think the OP and many of the guys on this thread are projecting their own (unconscious and semi-unconscious) tendencies towards sexual objectification and exploitative value extraction onto the OF models.

And that's why it touches such a deeply negative chord for them that feels disturbing to them... and why their criticism towards these models seems so biting and unnecessarily personal.

They just see their own objectifying tendencies mirrored back to them in their projection onto these women... with an extreme aversion to being on the chopping block of their own tendencies towards objectification and transactional value extraction.

And they judge the OF models for their own disowned tendencies, whilst succumbing to a victim's mentality narrative where they see themselves as the exploited ones.

Edit... Here's a song about this phenomenon...

 

Yes, I believe this is the case also and that's why sometimes I get so upset. They're not seeing how they are showing and revealing how they feel personally and not so much about what's exactly the case. It's like me hating on all lawyers because I had one lawyer that did me wrong. They have problems and issues in the dating world and see these businesses and the females that do it in the same light. Like you said, it's part of the job description. You don't expect for me to love you like that, but only when you're paying for it you do. The women aren't advertising true love, they're fulfilling fantasies and a part of that is to act. Why hate on them for that. Just don't go there. Funny how most guys knows about these services and have so much opinions about them. These services don't advertise on tv, or have billboards. Just like health food stores don't need to advertise, porn doesn't need to either, patrons seek them out and they have lots to say and knows a lot about these businesses. I wonder why. Must be a demand. So, the stats speak for themselves.

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

The line is very blurry. I imagine it's very tempting to sacrifice more and more of your ethics to make money as an OF girl.

Most, from what I understand, are trying to find whale clients who they make the majority of their money from. By whale clients I mean guys who pay lots of money for specific things. I'm sure some of those guys know what they're doing and are fine with it, but I have serious suspicions that in many cases they are being led along in some way. Whether this is OK or not is really hard to judge. Like I said, the line is blurry.

It just seems like it would be hard to stick to an ethical code as a girl on OF when there's so much money to be made by dropping your ethical standards.

Ok, that's here and there and stretches along the borderline of just about every business. Crooked lawyers, politicians, evangelists, doctors I mean everywhere. An example of doctor, is prescribing unnecessary prescriptions, hospitals keeping patients longer to get more money from insurance, businesses upsell all the time and rip people off all the time. OF is no exception. What you're describing is everywhere so it's up to the consumers to be vigilant. OF girls can't be expected to be fair in an unfair world and be singled out. 

Edited Monday at 04:54 PM by Princess Arabia

[AION]

Although OF models exploit men I think it is the fault of the men for falling for it. 

Men can’t lean on others. They are stand alone pillars of a civilization. If men decay, females decay and degeneracy as a result. There are many extinct empires all like Roman Empire and what they say is the empire decayed because the Roman man decayed. 

And I think this is the whole problem in the modern dating. Men who expect women to step up and fix the thing are delusional. Men need to get out of their victim mindset. Stop cucking for their unthankful wives or surrogate OF models who don’t give a flying f about them, and go for women that care about them. But for that they need to become a man of value. 

Edited Monday at 04:55 PM by AION

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, AION said:

Although OF models exploit men I think it is the fault of the men for falling for it. 

Men can’t lean on others. They are stand alone pillars of a civilization. If men decay, females decay and degeneracy as a result. There are many extinct empires all like Roman Empire and what they say is the empire decayed because the Roman man decayed. 

And I think this is the whole problem in the modern dating. Men who expect women to step up and fix the thing are delusional. Men need to get out of their victim mindset. Stop cucking for their thankful wives or OF models who don’t give a flying f about them, and go for women that care about them. But for that they need to become a man of value. 

Coming from a man who says he uses women for sex by paying for their meal until he gets into their pants, then have them pay their own.

OF girls don't exploit men. There may be some workers that do on a personal level, but how is it exploitative when the men are aware it's a business. Beats me.

[AION]

@Princess Arabia it is concerning that some are not seeing the exploitive nature of OF. It is like a drug dealer who destroys people’s lives and then says “I told nobody to buy drugs from me. They came to me.”

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, AION said:

@Princess Arabia it is concerning that some are not seeing the exploitive nature of OF. It is like a drug dealer who destroys people’s lives and then says “I told nobody to buy drugs from me. They came to me.”

There are exploitative natures in just about every business. Well advanced businesses, businesses where there are people with masters and bachelor degrees, businesses where the church is involved, businesses where kids are involved, businesses where ethics and morals are a big issue. Look at what we're discussing here, a sex business, and you think it's a big deal. It should be expected. The only answer is to avoid it because THEY ARE EASILY AVOIDABLE. The others aren't because they are a part of everyday life. 

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, AION said:

@Princess Arabia it is concerning that some are not seeing the exploitive nature of OF. It is like a drug dealer who destroys people’s lives and then says “I told nobody to buy drugs from me. They came to me.”

I see the underlying message in this statement. A lot has been revealed here without actually saying it. Yes, and it's the main reason for the hatred. No responsibility taken on the men's part. Lets blame the women for exploiting our weaknesses and addictions. Enough said.

[AION]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

I see the underlying message in this statement. A lot has been revealed here without actually saying it. Yes, and it's the main reason for the hatred. No responsibility taken on the men's part. Lets blame the women for exploiting our weaknesses and addictions. Enough said.

That is the only thing we agree on

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Haha. I think most guys wouldn’t mind considering most guys consume porn on a daily basis so instead of lusting to a LCD screen they would be living that life. 

Guys and girls experience sex in a different way. The masculine enters to feminine so I can imagine that if there are masculine energies who want to penetrate your aura 24/7 it can be annoying. 
 

Most guys are like in a desert lusting for a drop of water. Their last concern is drowning in some double D’s. 

It's not about being bombarded with sex or sexual choices. 

That's the thing that men might assume it to be like. And men would like having lots of sexual choices... though would probably find it annoying that most of that attention is coming from women they're not attracted to... including much much older women.

But it's more along the lines of your value and humanity being reduced to the status of object... and having a lot of people trying to use you as an object. And having people and society at large constantly projecting that onto you.

This is why men can't really relate or empathize. They've been conditioned to see sexual attention as empowering and that they're the main character of that attention. 

But if men were actually sexually objectified en masse, it would cast you as the interchangeable side character in someone else's story where you just exist for the main character's gratification. 

To be oriented to constantly as a sexual object is a very disempowering and painful experience... like you're conditioned to feel like your body and your sexuality aren't your own... and that your sexuality is a source of disempowerment that has no where to exist outside of someone else's fantasies.

And it takes a lot to break down that conditioning to even feel like your body is your own.

When men imagine what it would be like if the shoe was on the other foot, they just think about the sexual opportunities and the empowerment it would bring.

But in this opposite world, if the shoe were truly on the other foot, it would be a disempowering experience because the world only sees you as the masturbatory fodder of some old woman's sexual fantasies. 

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ok, that's here and there and stretches along the borderline of just about every business. Crooked lawyers, politicians, evangelists, doctors I mean everywhere. An example of doctor, is prescribing unnecessary prescriptions, hospitals keeping patients longer to get more money from insurance, businesses upsell all the time and rip people off all the time. OF is no exception. What you're describing is everywhere so it's up to the consumers to be vigilant. OF girls can't be expected to be fair in an unfair world and be singled out. 

I'm not singling them out, or placing higher expectations upon them. I'm just pointing out how exploitation can occur in this particular case because that's what this thread is about. All of those examples of people being crooked deserve criticism as well.

Edited Monday at 05:56 PM by something_else

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

I think a lot of men would enjoy this, not hate it. But we are safe to enjoy it because we don't have to fear for our safety when random women show interest.

My issue with OF is more to do with the scam side of it. Like where you have an organisation running an OF account for a girl with managers that will message men pretending to be the women to try and lead them on and extract more money from them.

If you're just an independent OF creator then that's your hustle and you do you. I'll never pay for it but you're not really harming anyone. It's when it gets to the point that you're misleading, lying or manipulating beyond a certain line that I think it becomes a problem. Kind of equivalent to a man lying about his profession, income, or coming up with random lies to get a woman to sleep with him.

That's where you're wrong.

I'm 100% sure that men would hate being objectified en masse because you would cease to be the main character of your own sexual experience and your own story.

You'd be reduced to being seen as a disposable and interchangeable dildo for women of all ages and levels of attractiveness.

There's a chance that men would even hate being objectified even more than women do because men feel a more pressing need for sex and don't have all the sorting mechanisms that women do.

So, you'd be feeling disempowered and objectified by more societally powerful women that are behaving vampirically towards you... and also lacking the natural aversion to sex that women have and giving in to all the sexual opportunities and feeling like you're in an addictive cycle of subjecting yourself to constant disempowerment and objectification from all sorts of women.

And then society would start seeing you as a degenerate and weak loser of a man because you kept giving in to the sexual advances because "how dare you use sexuality for your own pleasure! Don't you know that your sexuality is for your future wife!".

And you'd lose a bunch of opportunities because no one would take you seriously because you were a man of ill repute. 

And eventually, you'd have to choose between being a loser man of the streets or get married to an older woman who keeps you in a very tight lease because she must govern you because your sexuality is out of control. 

You'd probably start thinking of yourself that way too because you'd be having lots of sexual experiences that solidify your value as an object for women who are seen as inherently more important than you.

And you'd feel competitive to other men where you want to see yourself as a better object for your older wife.

You see... men like the idea of being objectified now because they get to imagine that sexual attention empowers them and adds more agency and value to them.

But if men were truly sexually objectified, it would negatively impact them in every area of life and narrow their agency... including their level of sexual agency.

So, sexual objectification is inherently disempowering because you just become an interchangeable chunk of flesh for ravenous dogs.

Now, it may not be as physically unsafe for men as it is for women... but the physical unsafely is just a very small part of what's negative about objectification.

I've never had a man commit physical violence against me. But I have experienced a lot of sexual trauma, just around being objectified and oriented to that way.

It's really about being treated as mere vehicle for someone else's pleasure... and your sexuality becomes stained with that kind of disempowerment.

[Salvijus]

Been watching this recently. Was interesting. 

 

 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, I believe this is the case also and that's why sometimes I get so upset. They're not seeing how they are showing and revealing how they feel personally and not so much about what's exactly the case. It's like me hating on all lawyers because I had one lawyer that did me wrong. They have problems and issues in the dating world and see these businesses and the females that do it in the same light. Like you said, it's part of the job description. You don't expect for me to love you like that, but only when you're paying for it you do. The women aren't advertising true love, they're fulfilling fantasies and a part of that is to act. Why hate on them for that. Just don't go there. Funny how most guys knows about these services and have so much opinions about them. These services don't advertise on tv, or have billboards. Just like health food stores don't need to advertise, porn doesn't need to either, patrons seek them out and they have lots to say and knows a lot about these businesses. I wonder why. Must be a demand. So, the stats speak for themselves.

Yeah, it's just one of those things that the guys have shame about... and they externalize that sense of shame onto OF models (or sometimes women in general).

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

That's where you're wrong.

I'm 100% sure that men would hate being objectified en masse because you would cease to be the main character of your own sexual experience and your own story.

You'd be reduced to being seen as a disposable and interchangeable dildo for women of all ages and levels of attractiveness.

There's a chance that men would even hate being objectified even more than women do because men feel a more pressing need for sex and don't have all the sorting mechanisms that women do.

So, you'd be feeling disempowered and objectified by more societally powerful women that are behaving vampirically towards you... and also lacking the natural aversion to sex that women have and giving in to all the sexual opportunities and feeling like you're in an addictive cycle of subjecting yourself to constant disempowerment and objectification from all sorts of women.

And then society would start seeing you as a degenerate and weak loser of a man because you kept giving in to the sexual advances because "how dare you use sexuality for your own pleasure! Don't you know that your sexuality is for your future wife!".

And you'd lose a bunch of opportunities because no one would take you seriously because you were a man of ill repute. 

And eventually, you'd have to choose between being a loser man of the streets or get married to an older woman who keeps you in a very tight lease because she must govern you because your sexuality is out of control. 

You'd probably start thinking of yourself that way too because you'd be having lots of sexual experiences that solidify your value as an object for women who are seen as inherently more important than you.

And you'd feel competitive to other men where you want to see yourself as a better object for your older wife.

You see... men like the idea of being objectified now because they get to imagine that sexual attention empowers them and adds more agency and value to them.

But if men were truly sexually objectified, it would negatively impact them in every area of life and narrow their agency... including their level of sexual agency.

So, sexual objectification is inherently disempowering because you just become an interchangeable chunk of flesh for ravenous dogs.

Now, it may not be as physically unsafe for men as it is for women... but the physical unsafely is just a very small part of what's negative about objectification.

I've never had a man commit physical violence against me. But I have experienced a lot of sexual trauma, just around being objectified and oriented to that way.

It's really about being treated as mere vehicle for someone else's pleasure... and your sexuality becomes stained with that kind of disempowerment.

What you are not considering is:

Women clearly want to be objectified to some degree. Women enhance their own attractiveness and seek out the desire of men. If a woman receives none she will feel left out and offended. The same woman who wears a skimpy outfit to the club and complains about drunk guys hitting on her, would be devastated if she goes out and all night no one approached her and they just approached her friends. This is essentially what the average man’s experience is, his sexuality is not valued.

Male sexuality is also demonized. Unless he does it smoothly in the right context it is often demoniz3d as predatory or a nuisance. 

Men are objectified in their own way, usually as “success” objects or “entertainment”. Because men are expected to provide and intimate they feel like they have to put on a song and dance and prove their worth to women who just sit and judge them, and decide their worth based on their personal success.

 

Edited Monday at 07:12 PM by Raze

[Basman]

17 hours ago, Emerald said:

I honestly think the OP and many of the guys on this thread are projecting their own (unconscious and semi-unconscious) tendencies towards sexual objectification and exploitative value extraction onto the OF models.

And that's why it touches such a deeply negative chord for them that feels disturbing to them... and why their criticism towards these models seems so biting and unnecessarily personal.

They just see their own objectifying tendencies mirrored back to them in their projection onto these women... with an extreme aversion to being on the chopping block of their own tendencies towards objectification and transactional value extraction.

And they judge the OF models for their own disowned tendencies, whilst succumbing to a victim's mentality narrative where they see themselves as the exploited ones.

Edit... Here's a song about this phenomenon...

 

I think its much simpler than that. By putting down sluts men gain a sense of control over their desires and freedom to exploit and/or pin blame. Women will also slutshame if it gives them an advantage in terms of social competition in my experience.

Giving up one's misogyny as a man can actually make your life objectively harder as you relinquish access to certain kinds of sex (for overall less sex effectively). People would be way more misogynistic if it was more socially acceptable because it has certain survival advantages.

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

That's where you're wrong.

I'm 100% sure that men would hate being objectified en masse because you would cease to be the main character of your own sexual experience and your own story.

You'd be reduced to being seen as a disposable and interchangeable dildo for women of all ages and levels of attractiveness.

There's a chance that men would even hate being objectified even more than women do because men feel a more pressing need for sex and don't have all the sorting mechanisms that women do.

So, you'd be feeling disempowered and objectified by more societally powerful women that are behaving vampirically towards you... and also lacking the natural aversion to sex that women have and giving in to all the sexual opportunities and feeling like you're in an addictive cycle of subjecting yourself to constant disempowerment and objectification from all sorts of women.

And then society would start seeing you as a degenerate and weak loser of a man because you kept giving in to the sexual advances because "how dare you use sexuality for your own pleasure! Don't you know that your sexuality is for your future wife!".

And you'd lose a bunch of opportunities because no one would take you seriously because you were a man of ill repute. 

And eventually, you'd have to choose between being a loser man of the streets or get married to an older woman who keeps you in a very tight lease because she must govern you because your sexuality is out of control. 

You'd probably start thinking of yourself that way too because you'd be having lots of sexual experiences that solidify your value as an object for women who are seen as inherently more important than you.

And you'd feel competitive to other men where you want to see yourself as a better object for your older wife.

You see... men like the idea of being objectified now because they get to imagine that sexual attention empowers them and adds more agency and value to them.

But if men were truly sexually objectified, it would negatively impact them in every area of life and narrow their agency... including their level of sexual agency.

So, sexual objectification is inherently disempowering because you just become an interchangeable chunk of flesh for ravenous dogs.

Now, it may not be as physically unsafe for men as it is for women... but the physical unsafely is just a very small part of what's negative about objectification.

I've never had a man commit physical violence against me. But I have experienced a lot of sexual trauma, just around being objectified and oriented to that way.

It's really about being treated as mere vehicle for someone else's pleasure... and your sexuality becomes stained with that kind of disempowerment.

Your argument here seems to be that "if men were women then men would feel the same way about sex as women do" which is a tautology.

But I do think I get what you're trying to say. I just think "if men could experience massive sexual objectification they would hate it" is not a good way to phrase the argument because what you really want is for men to experience what it's like to exist as a woman and then experience sexual objectification from within that frame of mind.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

I'm 100% sure that men would hate being objectified en masse because you would cease to be the main character of your own sexual experience and your own story.

You'd be reduced to being seen as a disposable and interchangeable dildo for women of all ages and levels of attractiveness.

Most men would be pretty happy about this, lol. We are fairly hard-wired to enjoy as much sex as we can get regardless of circumstance. There just isn't any amount of sexual objectification that's going to start to bother us.

It only starts to become a negative when you throw in all of the other baggage that women have to deal with regarding sex and like I said, at that point you're basically saying "if you were a women you'd feel the same way about sex as women do"

Edited Monday at 07:18 PM by something_else

[Jannes]

Men and women are a little different and I think some men if they had all the sexual possibilities in the world would take full advantage of it - I remember a JP clip where he speaks about a story of a very attractive guy on tinder who had sex with a thousand girls or so.. 

But men are emotional beings too. When they are extremely attractive they sometimes dont get emotional support because sadness is of course a best overcome with sex (lol). In a Healthy Gamer clip a very attractive guy said that he sometimes has sex with a women just so that she is willing to talk to him about emotions.

 

[AION]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

It's not about being bombarded with sex or sexual choices. 

That's the thing that men might assume it to be like. And men would like having lots of sexual choices... though would probably find it annoying that most of that attention is coming from women they're not attracted to... including much much older women.

But it's more along the lines of your value and humanity being reduced to the status of object... and having a lot of people trying to use you as an object. And having people and society at large constantly projecting that onto you.

This is why men can't really relate or empathize. They've been conditioned to see sexual attention as empowering and that they're the main character of that attention. 

But if men were actually sexually objectified en masse, it would cast you as the interchangeable side character in someone else's story where you just exist for the main character's gratification. 

To be oriented to constantly as a sexual object is a very disempowering and painful experience... like you're conditioned to feel like your body and your sexuality aren't your own... and that your sexuality is a source of disempowerment that has no where to exist outside of someone else's fantasies.

And it takes a lot to break down that conditioning to even feel like your body is your own.

When men imagine what it would be like if the shoe was on the other foot, they just think about the sexual opportunities and the empowerment it would bring.

But in this opposite world, if the shoe were truly on the other foot, it would be a disempowering experience because the world only sees you as the masturbatory fodder of some old woman's sexual fantasies. 

I can imagine how it would feel. I had a particular experience with a girl who used me for sex and although it was a very attractive girl, I still felt used and discarded like an object. But I think most guys wouldn't mind being used like that, in fact they would beg to be used by hot girls like that.

Guys also get attention from girls that are unattractive. The thing is that the masculine wants to penetrate the world of the feminine and the feminine doesn't do that. It is passive and only drops clues. So I don't think it would be too bothersome to be bombarded by attention. It would be a luxury problem imo. Because guys can defend themselves if girls get handsy and they don't get handsy anyway because it is not in their nature to be that assertive.

I know guys that can't get any girl and they are much worse off than the girls that have abundance of choice. Female problem is to find the needle in the haystack and a lot of them try to find them and get ran through like a Japanese train which causes its own traumas and other problems. I think it is like the yin and the yang, each gender has its own problems but I think women still have it easier. 

If you look like a regular girl and you mess up everything in life, you can still find a decent guy who will chip in, and you will be set for life..
If you are a guy and you messed up everything, good luck..

Edited Monday at 08:24 PM by AION