Beware of Charisma

[Raze]

On 2/9/2025 at 11:06 AM, Daniel Balan said:

I have no problem if my country brings here 100k Chinese people or Italian people, but I'm actually scared if my country would allow 10k of Somalians or Afgans. 

The US already let in 200K Afghan refugees and 

[Xonas Pitfall]

Simply put, you're coming at this from the wrong angle. You're looking for outside sources to define your "values, ethics, and morals," whereas these need to be intrinsically derived. Obviously, it's still fine to reference outside sources and consider other opinions, but fundamentally, all of these have to be filtered through your own values. If you don't define those clearly, you'll always end up taking on someone else's and being persuaded by things like charisma, seeming professionalism, intelligence, authority, or success.

To give you an example:

Let's say we have Person A and Person B.

• Person A’s ethics aren't well-defined, and fundamentally, what he cares about is "seeming right" or aligning with what "seems to be right" - basically, the current status quo.
• Person B, on the other hand, values things making logical sense. For him, truth has to be something he can break down and derive on his own.

Now, let's say both of them take a math class with a charismatic teacher.

This charismatic teacher tells wonderful stories about how 2 + 2 = 5, explaining the history of 2 and 5, the history of addition. He seems incredibly intelligent, adding humor and playfulness, making it sound like 2 and 2 always add up to more than they seem. People start clapping, and agreeing, and soon, the status quo in that class becomes "2 + 2 = 5."

If both Person A and Person B enter this class, what do you think they'll take away from it?

Most likely, Person A will believe that 2 + 2 = 5, because it aligns with what his values and personal filter tell him is "right." To him, what is right is whatever is presented as correct, whatever is presented as most truthful, whatever the most charismatic and intelligent-seeming person says it is, or whatever the majority agrees on.

Person B, however, will think, "This is fucking bullshit." Because when he takes two objects and adds two more, he gets four. This makes no sense to him. He doesn't align with it. For him, what is right and truthful is whatever he can derive for himself. He doesn't care if everyone agrees or if the teacher seems knowledgeable - he'll either confront the teacher, ask others who weren’t in the class, or do more research. To be truthful, you actually have to put in effort. You have to care about aligning with what's right, which means putting way more effort into thinking critically.

But the most important thing is actually seeing and deconstructing your own ethics and values - understanding why you think certain things are correct and others are not. This is the common thread among all great thinkers: independent thinking and filtering everything through values they've deeply questioned and deconstructed.

That’s the difference between someone who cares about their health - someone who tests different products, exercises, diet plans, etc. - and an unhealthy person who just buys random pills from some guru to "prove to themselves" that they're healthy, even if they don’t feel any actual effects. The former has a filter and a deep value for real health. They don’t just want to look healthy or pretend to be healthy - they want to be healthy and feel healthy. So, they actively seek out what works instead of blindly following someone’s advice.

I’d guess that all the people who "scammed" or "persuaded" you were people whose advice you never actually questioned or deeply tested. Andrew Tate is a good example. While his advice might help you get laid, it doesn't take a genius to see that his worldview is not a good foundation for meaningful relationships or a healthy society. A society needs loving parents and people who genuinely care for each other in order to grow and prosper - not men and women set against each other. If you look at his gym workouts, you'll see that he’s not much of an expert in either kickboxing or proper training. And if you ever entered his community, you’d realize that most of his courses just recycle common internet side hustle advice that you could find anywhere.

My guess is that you enjoy being around entertaining and inspiring people - and as a result, you adopt their beliefs. But you need to separate those things. I can enjoy watching someone I disagree with because they bring me energy, humor, and entertainment, but that doesn’t mean I adopt their beliefs. And when I want to think critically, I go to sources I’ve personally vetted much more carefully.

TL;DR: The most crucial step to fixing this is defining your values.

What do you think a good society looks like? What is important? Is it a world where people are more spiritually aware? What does that even mean? Is it happiness? How do we increase human happiness and goodness? What policies contribute to that, and which ones don’t? Do we need more love or more fear in this world? What events, policies, groups of people, values, and leaders promote that? Which ones don’t?

Another thing - don’t fall into the common mistake and bias of thinking, I need to align with one side; I must be liberal or I must be conservative. This is probably one of the most common reasons why there is so much polarity and adversity. There are important lessons to take from both sides, and you don’t need to define yourself as anything. Develop your value system, and when it’s time to vote, vote for the party that has more values and policies aligning with that. No one will ever be 100% aligned with you or perfectly agree with you, and that’s normal - that’s how it should be. It means you're thinking critically and not just parroting other opinions.

Also, just look at the sheer character of the person you're evaluating. What are their values? Is it power, selfishness, personal gain, narcissism, manipulation, cheating, exploiting? Or is it genuine help, contribution, mission, goodness? And be careful not to just believe what they say - because everyone will claim they come from a good place. Look at what they do and implement.

Do you think a guy who makes girls fall in love with him, then prostitutes them as cam whores, and then teaches them to steal money from clients has values of truth, goodness, and help? Or is it more about fast cash and self-gain? Do you think he’s more or less likely to scam you and be selfish with you too? Or do you think he’ll magically be kind now? etc.

These are the questions you need to answer for yourself. Once you're deeply and genuinely grounded in your values, no one will be able to scam, manipulate, or cheat you, because if they fundamentally don’t align with what you believe, you simply won’t care about them. You can still watch and listen to those people for entertainment and curiosity, but you won’t be easily manipulated into adopting their worldview.

I hope this helps

[Xonas Pitfall]

These are probably the most useful Leo episodes for deeply understanding and contemplating this issue.

[Daniel Balan]

@Xonas Pitfall Thank you so much for this holistic answer. I read it with a huge smile on my face. You brought clarity into my world. Thank you! You have a beautiful mind! <3 

[Daniel Balan]

@Leo Gura's episode How to avoid getting scammed, Is in my eyes his best episode to date. None other comes close when It comes to how much real world value brought into my life. It is the most practical, the most helpful of his videos. But I'd say it definitely deserves a part 2. In that video he made me aware of how to protect my pocket. But it didn't teach me how to protect my mind. I beg Leo to create a part 2 of that video on how to avoid getting scammed or manipulated intelectually, politically, psychologically. @Xonas Pitfall in your beautiful response you mentioned:

11 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Simply put, you're coming at this from the wrong angle. You're looking for outside sources to define your "values, ethics, and morals," whereas these need to be intrinsically derived. Obviously, it's still fine to reference outside sources and consider other opinions, but fundamentally, all of these have to be filtered through your own values.

But what if my OWN values are wrong? What if I grew up in a stage red maga redneck family? I'd have by default skewed and wicked values. That's why I don't care to much about my OWN values. These also have been forged by the social matrix I grew up in. Because I realized that humans don't think. And I am the greatest example of that. I realized that if Leo didn't exist I would have been a MAGA like redneck. That's why I try to find a system that would allow me to arrive at healthy perspectives and values on my own. I would like that if I were to always surrounded by MAGA like friends, to still have the same values that Leo has. Right now if Leo disappeared, I feel like in 1 year I'd have the same values and views on politics and life, as all my redneck people at work. For example each time I speak with my father(He is extremely into RW politics and conspiracy theories) he talks about these things and I feel like the value system that I've developed by listening to Leo so much, is shaken and I start to doubt my beliefs, and I feel like the more I speak with him the more I start seeing Trump in a good light(Father talks a lot about people like Trump). All I want is to no longer buy into the all the RW BS content my father keeps parroting. 

Edited February 15 by Daniel Balan

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Daniel Balan

I'm really happy it helped you so much - that brightened my day! Hehe <3 

On 2/15/2025 at 7:37 PM, Daniel Balan said:

But what if my OWN values are wrong? What if I grew up in a stage red maga redneck family? I'd have by default skewed and wicked values. That's why I don't care to much about my OWN values. These also have been forged by the social matrix I grew up in. Because I realized that humans don't think. And I am the greatest example of that.

Hmm... if someone has been cheated on or fooled before, does that mean they should never try to find a genuine connection again? Probably not. You keep seeking love and connection, just with a stronger, more intelligent, and more cautious perspective. The same applies to you and your problem of seeking truth and building a moral system that you are truly proud of and certain about.

On 2/15/2025 at 7:37 PM, Daniel Balan said:

I realized that if Leo didn't exist I would have been a MAGA like redneck.

Interesting, but why? And also, why do you want to align with Leo's views so much? If your father is a hardcore Trump/MAGA fan and Leo holds the complete opposite views, that suggests you have some deep searching and value rethinking ahead of you. If a person is easily swayed in one direction and then another, it suggests they haven't thoroughly evaluated what they truly stand for and why. If I can simply charm you into believing something, it’s not about what I’m saying but how I’m saying it. This indicates a tendency to be drawn to charisma and entertainment rather than prioritizing truth, correctness, alignment with values, and integrity. (But don’t worry - this is completely normal. Most people are naturally like this. You often need to experience being fooled and charmed before you start caring about it, tbh.)

If anything, having those core memories and experiences of being fooled is actually a good thing because now you know to think twice before easily adopting a charismatic person's perspective. Take it as a blessing. I had a personal experience of being fooled, which is why it became crucial for me to develop independent thinking. As you heard in that Manipulation, Cheated, Exploited episode, Leo also had plenty of experiences himself, so it's nothing unusual.

You first need to start grounding yourself in your own values and thinking. If you’re naturally easily persuaded, it's almost like living on autopilot - you have to slowly develop a taste for filtering opinions through your own lens. This feels like asking yourself:

There are plenty of people who responded to you on this forum. Why did you like my response? What was it about it? What made my response helpful or enjoyable for you? What could I have said that would have made you hate it, discard it, or not respect it?

Depending on your answers, you can start seeing what you subconsciously believe is right. If you say, "It seemed very genuine, and you have an interest in helping me," that might indicate, that I value genuineness and helpfulness. Okay, so what does that actually look and feel like? How do you ensure someone genuinely has those intentions?

Why did you like Leo’s content? Why do you think Leo is more correct than your dad? Why not support Trump? Why not turn into a redneck like the people at your work? Why not fully embody everything Andrew Tate says? What’s so bad about that? Maybe Leo is idiotic and delusional - why should I trust him?

You need to answer these questions honestly for yourself. The key here is for yourself. You have to genuinely question both the people you think are “right” and those you think are “wrong.” Once you truly answer these for yourself, you won’t have to worry about falling into "the charisma trap." No matter how persuasive or captivating someone is, you’ll be able to deconstruct their arguments and ask yourself: Why is this right? Why is this wrong? My guess is you haven’t deeply questioned these perspectives before - you’ve likely just been persuaded by the general emotion or archetype someone represents. This is completely fine because developing this skill isn’t natural - but now that you’re aware of it, you can start improving.

As I mentioned, people often follow someone based on their vibe or archetype rather than what they are actually saying. Imagine someone selling you pure garbage - maybe a get-rich-quick scheme. But because they wear a suit, rent a Lamborghini, hire some models, and use fancy vocabulary, people trust them more than a simple guy in casual wear. A good example is how many people voted for Trump over Kamala just because he felt like a competent businessman, even though they never read his policies, investigated his past, or examined his character. The same goes for Andrew Tate - many people supported him because he embodied the “masculine alpha male” archetype without bothering to research his actual business model, how he got rich, or the manipulative tactics he used.

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That's why I try to find a system that allows me to develop healthy perspectives and values on my own. I want to be able to hold the same values as Leo, even if I were surrounded by MAGA-like friends. Right now, if Leo disappeared, I feel like in one year I’d have the same values and views on politics and life.

Do you think this is true? Why? If Leo disappeared, it’s not like everything you learned from him would vanish overnight. You’ve gained new perspectives - you are not your old self anymore. I encourage you to investigate why you fear this and whether that fear is rational.

I promise you. You can never truly escape your own judgment. Even if you only listen to Leo or whoever you find most compelling, you will still filter everything through your subconscious values. Two people can listen to Leo and walk away with completely different perspectives. You can never escape your own filter - you can only refine it, become more aware of it, and retune it over time. You have control here. Just because you were persuaded before doesn’t mean you always will be.

Leo was once an atheist, and now he is a hardcore mystic. Do you think he fears reverting back to atheism? No, because he has lived through the direct experiences that led him to his current beliefs. He deconstructed his worldview independently and came to his own conclusions. He can reverse-engineer why he thought the way he did before and why he thinks differently now. This should be your goal too. If you can understand why you were persuaded before and why you believe what you do now, that will tell you a lot.

Also, Leo only provides opinions on certain topics - but in life, you will need to make decisions about where to live, who to marry, what career to pursue, and who to trust. You can’t ask Leo to guide you on all of that. Those choices will be influenced by people who may be incredibly charming and capable of misleading you.

So yes, gather insights from content creators, media, and the people around you to help make decisions. But ultimately, you will never escape your own filter and judgment. The decision of who to follow, when to follow them, and in what context will always be your choice - not Leo’s, not mine, not anyone else’s. You can never escape yourself. So work on refining your mind, judgment, and values to ensure you don’t regret who you allow to influence you.

Take responsibility for your beautiful mind Daniel, and you’ll do great! I believe in you! <3

[Xonas Pitfall]

On 2/15/2025 at 7:37 PM, Daniel Balan said:

But what if my OWN values are wrong? What if I grew up in a stage red maga redneck family? I'd have by default skewed and wicked values. That's why I don't care to much about my OWN values.

Also, please be careful not to trap yourself in a victim mentality. Thinking: "Because I grew up like this, I’ll never be able to think clearly and properly." There are people who grew up in sheer poverty, alcoholism, and drug addiction yet transformed themselves into completely unrecognizable versions of who they once were. There are many scientists who grew up in strictly religious households yet became atheists. Your upbringing doesn’t have to define you forever - it influences you, but now that you’re conscious of it, you have a choice.

Please do your best to remove yourself from victimhood. The best way to do this is by taking full ownership of your values, your mind, and the influences you allow into your thinking, as well as taking responsibility for your decisions.

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That's why I don't care to much about my OWN values.

You have no idea how dangerous this sentence actually is. Careful! <3

Who says you need to follow rednecks? No one. You don’t have to have an ounce of similarity to anyone in your life - absolutely no one. If it helps, you can use this thread/forum for journaling and contemplation on what values resonate the most with you and why. I can go over it and help. But even then, you'd STILL have to ask yourself - Why trust me and not someone else? See how it always loops back to your mind? Hehe.