Are you guys worried about this Trump project 25/tech oligarchy takeover?

[aurum]

31 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

American democratic institutions, though currently in its most fragile state, are robust enough to keep a full dictatorship at bay.

What's your argument for this?

[Elliott]

On 2/8/2025 at 10:27 PM, aurum said:

The entire premise of Project 2025 was unitary executive theory. Which is essentially just removing as many checks on Donald Trump's power as possible and replacing gov officials with loyalists who will do all his bidding.

Again, you can argue this is what the people voted for. But in that case they voted for authoritarianism. They voted to destroy democracy. So it doesn't make much sense to still call what is happening democracy, assuming Trump and team succeed.

If Elon Musk now has the power to override laws that have been signed into existence by Congress + president, are you still going to call that democracy because people voted for Trump?

What about if they start refusing to obey federal court orders and are no longer accountable to the justice system?

That's not authoritarianism, a president is over the entire executive branch, every presidency appoints their chosen officials to head departments. Authoritarianism would be doing away with or corrupting elections.

Removing what check on power? The only check on a president's power is impeachment. It's the president's discretion on which laws to execute and which not to, for example the keystone xl pipeline was approved by congress in a previous administration and when Biden came in he unilaterally cancelled it.

A president has the ability to not enforce any law, he can have elon do whatever he wants and pardon him so even future administrations cannot prosecute him, the president himself is the person in charge of enforcing the laws. Just like a president's ability to veto any law can be overridden with a supermajority of congress, the same amount is to remove a president with a conviction from impeachment.

There's no destruction of Democracy anywhere in sight, what are you referring to?

Edited yesterday at 02:27 PM by Elliott

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

That's not authoritarianism, a president is over the entire executive branch, every presidency appoints their chosen officials to head departments. 

I'm not talking about heads of departments. Obviously every president does that.

I'm talking about the deep state. The thousands of federal bureaucrats and workers we have.

Also, it should be noted that Trump's choices of department heads are not just normal picks. They are badly unqualified and deep loyalists.

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Authoritarianism would be doing away with or corrupting elections.

This is a false reduction. Corrupting elections is only one part of authoritarianism.

Also ,Trump has already attempted to steal one election. Elon donated $270 million for this one. I have no faith they will not at least try further corrupting our elections. They do not believe in democracy.

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Removing what check on power? The only check on a president's power is impeachment. It's the president's discretion on which laws to execute and which not to, for example the keystone xl pipeline was approved by congress in a previous administration and when Biden came in he unilaterally cancelled it.

This is also completely false.

The president has many checks on its powers. That's the whole point of why the Founding Fathers drafted the constitution the way they did. Checks and balances.

President is checked by Congress, the Supreme Court, and in modern times the deep state. This is as it should be, because presidents are not supposed to be kings. 

The president only has the power to veto a law that Congress has approved. But even this veto can be overturned by Congress. Presidents absolutely cannot unilaterally decide which laws to execute.

The "keystone pipeline" was not a law passed by Congress. What Biden did was reverse an executive order that Trump did and that some people argued overstepped his powers. This is not the same thing.

If Trump wants to abuse executive orders, you can expect they will be overturned when another president comes steps in. 

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

A president has the ability to override any law and have anyone override any law, he can have elon do whatever he wants and pardon him so even future administrations cannot prosecute him, the president himself is the person in charge of enforcing the laws. Just like a president's ability to veto any law can be overridden with a supermajority of congress, the same amount is to remove a president with a conviction from impeachment.

This is again false. A president can veto a law only before it has been signed into law. Once it's signed, it's done. 

The president can legally do pardons, this is true. But it would certainly be unwise to abuse such a power. If you are pardoning people committing authoritarian acts, the pardon itself becomes authoritarian. 

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

There's no destruction of Democracy anywhere in sight, what are you referring to?

Just look at all the lawsuits being filed.

Edited Sunday at 07:15 AM by aurum

[Elliott]

8 hours ago, aurum said:

I'm not talking about heads of departments. Obviously every president does that.

I'm talking about the deep state. The thousands of federal bureaucrats and workers we have.

Also, it should be noted that Trump's choices of department heads are not just normal picks. They are badly unqualified and deep loyalists.

This is a false reduction. Corrupting elections is only one part of authoritarianism.

Also ,Trump has already attempted to steal one election. Elon donated $270 million for this one. I have no faith they will not at least try further corrupting our elections. They do not believe in democracy.

This is also completely false.

The president has many checks on its powers. That's the whole point of why the Founding Fathers drafted the constitution the way they did. Checks and balances.

President is checked by Congress, the Supreme Court, and in modern times the deep state. This is as it should be, because presidents are not supposed to be kings. 

The president only has the power to veto a law that Congress has approved. But even this veto can be overturned by Congress. Presidents absolutely cannot unilaterally decide which laws to execute.

The "keystone pipeline" was not a law passed by Congress. What Biden did was reverse an executive order that Trump did and that some people argued overstepped his powers. This is not the same thing.

If Trump wants to abuse executive orders, you can expect they will be overturned when another president comes steps in. 

This is again false. A president can veto a law only before it has been signed into law. Once it's signed, it's done. 

The president can legally do pardons, this is true. But it would certainly be unwise to abuse such a power. If you are pardoning people committing authoritarian acts, the pardon itself becomes authoritarian. 

Just look at all the lawsuits being filed.

It's not authoritarian, it's oppressive.

You cannot have authoritarianism while you have free elections, Trump has not corrupted any election, Biden was in charge during this election, why did democrats hand over the presidency without any fight at all actually if it was corrupted? Has congress convicted Trump with impeachment proceedings to remove him? No, and congress is the elected representatives of the people.

Trump and Congress are doing the will of the people, Congress has approved these department heads, congress elected by the people, an election that happened under Biden. All of the departments are under the President, the entire executive branch. There were constant lawsuits under Biden too, look at the student loan forgiveness lawsuit, lawsuits on him not enforcing immigration laws.

The "deep state" has no check on the president, he can fire anyone in the executive branch, this has been done before and affirmed by SCOTUS, the only check is by congressional impeachment, and election by the people, he clears both of those.

 

Washington Examiner

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/1763880/biden-admits-he-is-proudly-and-deliberately-breaking-the-law

Biden admits he is proudly and deliberately breaking the law

Aug 4, 2021 · When asked about the legal obstacles this policy would inevitably run into, President Joe Biden admitted that what his administration is doing is illegal, but he said he doesn’t car

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com › news

AOC Renews Calls for Biden Administration to Defy Federal Court …

Apr 22, 2023 · Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D., N.Y.) has doubled down on calls for the Biden administration to defy federal courts, including the nation’s highest, which she 

Edited Sunday at 04:07 PM by Elliott

[Rafael Thundercat]

Found this quote in A account at  IG Theads

1️⃣ The Left Loves to Be the “Bigger Person”

 • The right cheats, lies, suppresses votes, and takes power aggressively.

 • The left? “We don’t want to sink to their level.”

 • Guess what? Power isn’t about looking good—it’s about getting results.

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Found this quote in A account at  IG Theads

1️⃣ The Left Loves to Be the “Bigger Person”

 • The right cheats, lies, suppresses votes, and takes power aggressively.

 • The left? “We don’t want to sink to their level.”

 • Guess what? Power isn’t about looking good—it’s about getting results.

Isn't it really the foundation of Democratic policy to fight those things; cheating, lies, voter suppression, and minority rule? Healthcare and tax reform are targeting cheating, the thought is the current dynamic is unfair, the rich are cheating. Pollution, climate change, these are both about the same kind of cheating and lies. Taking power aggressively or suppressing votes would be oppressing the people, not doing the will of the people.

 

ETA; It's funny how socialists exclude Democrats from the left until they want to criticize them for not being oppressive.

Edited Sunday at 03:20 PM by Elliott

[Consept]

21 hours ago, Emerald said:

And it's really clear to me the Elon is seeing the Trump presidency as a way to erode the American system enough to become the dictator.

This is the thing i find scary like theyre actually trying to do it, the only question is can the guardrails hold them and hold on to democracy?

12 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

This is what learning the hard way looks like.

Definitely but I feel like the public are not even aware of how theyre being manipulated. Social media, how its being used in a political sense is possibly one of the most powerful mind control and propaganda delivery systems that the world has ever seen. Imagine in Nazi germany all they probably had was leaflets and posters as well as Hitlers speeches and that worked, let alone constant media consumption on a handlheld device that can literally work out what will trigger you. Its actually insane, I dont think anyone was ready for it honestly. 

[Consept]

13 hours ago, Elliott said:

How is it authoritarian if the people elected him to enact the exact executive orders he's enacting, project 2025 was public and Republicans have always supported dismantling all of these programs. America elected not only him as president, but a republican congress, this is the will of the people you're seeing, every single act.

No Trump distanced himself from Project 2025 numerous times and said he wasnt anything to do with it, he called some of the proposals "ridiculous and abysmal". He knew that if he said he was fully behind it, he would lose votes because people dont actually want a dictator, maga might because they idealise him, but he wouldnt get a moderate voter and also people would most likely realise what they were voting for or against. So this is not the will of the people this is a lie. Now he is in power project 2025 is taking shape and thats why people who voted for him are regretting their vote. 

It's not surprising that a politician would lie of course but this situation feels like voters have been scammed, especially considering Musks involvement, RFK being bought off etc, there was a lot of shady business done.  

 

[Elliott]

19 minutes ago, Consept said:

No Trump distanced himself from Project 2025 numerous times and said he wasnt anything to do with it, he called some of the proposals "ridiculous and abysmal". He knew that if he said he was fully behind it, he would lose votes because people dont actually want a dictator, maga might because they idealise him, but he wouldnt get a moderate voter and also people would most likely realise what they were voting for or against. So this is not the will of the people this is a lie. Now he is in power project 2025 is taking shape and thats why people who voted for him are regretting their vote. 

It's not surprising that a politician would lie of course but this situation feels like voters have been scammed, especially considering Musks involvement, RFK being bought off etc, there was a lot of shady business done.  

 

Did you believe trump when he said he wasn't associated with 2025?

This video is a year ago of him talking about shutting down these departments

 

7 years ago, he says he will disband fbi
 

Where are the Trump voter calls for impeachment then? They don't exist, Trumps approval rating is like 80% amongst Republican voters after implementing these policies. Where is the Trump voter outrage, I have not seen it.


What are you afraid of he or musk will do, I don't understand what you think he can do, eliminate elections? Republican Congress will not allow that.
 

Edited Sunday at 04:45 PM by Elliott

[Consept]

42 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Did you believe trump when he said he wasn't associated with 2025?

Obviously I didn't believe him, but I don't know about voters. The point I was making though is that he knows it looks bad which is why didn't admit it. Which suggests that he could go as far as necessary down this road. 

 

43 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Where are the Trump voter calls for impeachment then? They don't exist, Trumps approval rating is like 80% amongst Republican voters after implementing these policies. Where is the Trump voter outrage, I have not seen it.

It's still early and the outcome of things like tariffs haven't taken effect. Most people just want their stuff to be cheaper. Also an approval rating doesn't mean that he is not a rising dictator, I'm sure Hitler was very popular even before he went to war. 

 

45 minutes ago, Elliott said:

What are you afraid of he or musk will do, I don't understand what you think he can do, eliminate elections? Republican Congress will not allow that.
 

Essentially take over and the US become an authoritarian, facist country. The thing is we don't know how strong the guard rails are, they got tested to the max on Jan 6th and in fact he very nearly broke them, save for things like Mike Pence not doing what Trump wanted him to do, that situation could've got a lot worse. 

[Elliott]

26 minutes ago, Consept said:

Obviously I didn't believe him, but I don't know about voters. The point I was making though is that he knows it looks bad which is why didn't admit it. Which suggests that he could go as far as necessary down this road. 

 

It's still early and the outcome of things like tariffs haven't taken effect. Most people just want their stuff to be cheaper. Also an approval rating doesn't mean that he is not a rising dictator, I'm sure Hitler was very popular even before he went to war. 

 

Essentially take over and the US become an authoritarian, facist country. The thing is we don't know how strong the guard rails are, they got tested to the max on Jan 6th and in fact he very nearly broke them, save for things like Mike Pence not doing what Trump wanted him to do, that situation could've got a lot worse. 

Democrats need 3 republican reps and 20 senators to remove Trump.

7 Republican Senators voted to convict Trump in 2021 for comparison by the way, he was impeached by the house twice.

 

It's unbelievable to me that there wouldn't be 13 more Republican Senators vote against dictatorship, vote against election interference. It's unbelievable to me that most Republican voters wouldn't oppose it, the military, SCOTUS even. I'm disturbed that you people are disturbed by those thoughts. Rich people would also not want to disturb democracy, what has made them their money, they just want de-regulation.

 

Why would anyone besides the sole dictator want a dictatorship, even republicans? Why would they want to give up their vote? Not only that, this would completely shut off the U.S. from the rest of the West, all of the rich people would lose their international business. In dictatorships the dictator steals the rich's money even.


My point about Trumps approval rating is that he is doing what most of his voters want, I doubt they even read project 2025 but I think they knew he wanted to do those things, he himself has explicitly stated he was going to do these things.

Edited Sunday at 05:48 PM by Elliott

[Consept]

34 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Why would anyone besides the sole dictator want a dictatorship, even republicans? Why would they want to give up their vote? Not only that, this would completely shut off the U.S. from the rest of the West, all of the rich people would lose their international business. In dictatorships the dictator steals the rich's money even.

Dictator may be a bit heavy but it would be more akin to Putins autocratic leadership. Rich people will welcome this if they get to be part of the oligarchy, (as happened in Russia) this enriches them even further as long as they go along with the leader, we're already seeing this with Zuckerberg and Bezos bending the knee to Trump, where they wouldn't have before. 

The people 'want it' because of distraction tactics. They're voting because of inflation or dei or trans issues, the oligarchy stuff is being pushed in the back door, no one would vote for it directly but they would vote for the other stuff. They've also done a great job at demonising the dems. 

The senators votes is fair enough within a democracy but remember Putin dissolved all these guard rails and has been in power for decades at this point. It's a different situation but there are definitely similarities 

[Elliott]

47 minutes ago, Consept said:

Dictator may be a bit heavy but it would be more akin to Putins autocratic leadership. Rich people will welcome this if they get to be part of the oligarchy, (as happened in Russia) this enriches them even further as long as they go along with the leader, we're already seeing this with Zuckerberg and Bezos bending the knee to Trump, where they wouldn't have before. 

The people 'want it' because of distraction tactics. They're voting because of inflation or dei or trans issues, the oligarchy stuff is being pushed in the back door, no one would vote for it directly but they would vote for the other stuff. They've also done a great job at demonising the dems. 

The senators votes is fair enough within a democracy but remember Putin dissolved all these guard rails and has been in power for decades at this point. It's a different situation but there are definitely similarities 

I'm sorry to hear how little you think of your fellow Americans, that would be very scary if I believed that. You think Trump will kill or imprison political opponents, and Republicans will go along with it. If you feel that way then you don't believe in the nation any way, you think that if a charismatic Republican is elected that they can be dictator if they choose. Essentially, you've already been living in a sham nation then right? A used car salesmen can come along any time and swindle away the biggest nation. Why do you think this isn't done more often, especially in smaller presumably easier to target nations?

There are complete brainwashed idiot Trump supporters, and they are prominent in the news and you see them a lot, but that is not the average Republican voter. I suggest socializing with some, I think they will surprise you. I think you're victim to a social media induced illusion by being bombarded by cringey MAGA.

 

Edited Sunday at 07:01 PM by Elliott

[Elliott]

Here's possibly the most extreme Trump has been, and he doesn't even outright tell the Republican to cheat, and he only offers veiled mild threats. After listening to this, do you think even Trump feels like he is in a position to assassinate or wrongfully imprison political opponents. This was after he had already been impeached by the house the first time.

Not only would he need a corrupt justice department, he needs a corrupt judge, a corrupt appellate court, a corrupt supreme court, and an oblivious or corrupt congress to wrongfully imprison, of which he would also need to do to several people, and then he needs oblivious or corrupt voters next election.

 

To assassinate someone, he needs someone that would actually do it, and he needs oblivious or corrupt voters next election, not only that he also needs to win the election otherwise, which he barely even did this time without going Dictator.

 

To rig the election, you need an oblivious or corrupt congress, and then proceeding oblivious or corrupt voters. The swing states this time were actually Democrat ran states even, Democrat ran elections would need to be rigged.

Edited Sunday at 07:18 PM by Elliott

[Joshe]

15 hours ago, Emerald said:

I don't know if they will succeed, but my medicine journey from last March makes me think that they will.

What do you think their success would look like? Of course, they would arrive at the top via falsehood, schemes, manipulation, deception, etc., and this would only work because of how polarized people are. Polarization is the name of their game. Without that, conmen like this would be rejected by the vast majority.

Do you think polarization would be sufficient enough to keep them at the top? Once they win, and say they rule for a while, if there are no more political contests, polarization would decrease, along with their support. 

I don't think it's sustainable to rule the world by force. Anyone who tries it will eventually fail, even if they have initial success. Also, I get the sense our politicians wouldn't allow it. 

I agree with you on their motives but I just don't see an easy way for them to reach their goals. I see them crashing and burning long before they succeed. Of course, they'll cause a lot of damage in their attempt, but I don't see how they'll make it to the top and remain there. I haven't put much thought into it though. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

For the specialists in Astrology out there:

The U.S. is deep in its Pluto return aftermath, navigating a transformation that only happens once every 248 years.

Historically, empires don’t fare well after their Pluto return. And America is reaching its empire expiration date. Let’s unpack this.  

Let’s talk Pluto.
 Pluto = Death, rebirth, power, collapse, reckoning.
 The U.S. Pluto return (2022–2025) marks the first time since 1776 that Pluto has returned to the degree it occupied at America’s birth.

This is the empire moment.

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

 sorry to hear how little you think of your fellow Americans

I'm not American 

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

I'm sorry to hear how little you think of your fellow Americans, that would be very scary if I believed that.

You should think of Americans as they are in reality, not who/what you'd like them to be. If they are collectively mostly ignorant, apathetic, gullible, prone to manipulation, and lacking common sense and basic discernment, that's just the reality.

The implications of this truth prevent many from accepting reality. Emotion or personal feelings should not be placed above objectivity. It's okay that Americans are like this. I mean, it sucks, but it's the reality. 

Edited Sunday at 08:19 PM by Joshe

[Hojo]

I think the problem is all these people who have been in government around President and politics think they deserve to be the president based on how much time they have spent in government. They vote for their shitty little party and no one else because they think they deserve it, being in politics dosent mean you can be the only one who can be President. President should be different. A party should be allowed to vote for whoever they want in the entire country not a list given to them by the party. Thats bullshit and locks out 99.9 percent of people thats just king and Queenship. There are millions of people who are better than any of them.

Edited Sunday at 08:16 PM by Hojo

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

A used car salesmen can come along any time and swindle away the biggest nation. Why do you think this isn't done more often, especially in smaller presumably easier to target nations?

That is what's happened though and it literally happens all the time in developing nations sometimes to catastrophic results, Rwanda, Uganda, Nigeria, basically many nations in africa, south America and Asia have been plundered due to this type of corruption. America, everyone thought had guard rails on this, however this guard rails are really being tested by trump and Co. I thought they were strong enough, but as I said Jan 6th surprised me how close that was to really subverting the government. It's not done in the western world because it's hard to get that much support for a candidate that is capable of that, Trump is quite a unique character, I can't remember the last time or if there's ever been a time, someone like him has been president, in terms of a complete outsider, celebrity etc. 

51 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Here's possibly the most extreme Trump has been, and he doesn't even outright tell the Republican to cheat, and he only offers veiled mild threats. After listening to this, do you think even Trump feels like he is in a position to assassinate or wrongfully imprison political opponents. This was after he had already been impeached by the house the first time.

I've heard this before but you're strawmanning me, I'm not saying he would necessarily assassinate anyone, but even this phone call is highly illegal and against the democratic process, what's worse is that he got away with it. If he keeps getting away with things like this who's to say what else he would try? Also this just happened to be recorded, I'm sure there's other things that are much worse that weren't. 

54 minutes ago, Elliott said:

To rig the election, you need an oblivious or corrupt congress, and then proceeding oblivious or corrupt voters. The swing states this time were actually Democrat ran states even, Democrat ran elections would need to be rigged.

I'm not saying he rigged or would rig an election necessarily, we can just look at what he actually did which was the fake electorate plan, which was an attempt to subvert the democratic process in attempt to keep him in power after he's been voted out. This is the behaviour of someone with no respect for the democratic process. 

You're going to the absolute extreme of assassination or imprisoning opponents, he can't really do that in America because of the nature of the country but he's still trying to get to goal of having as much power as possible over the government in underhanded ways. 

So the intention imo is there, based on previous actions and current t actions, the only question for me is 'is it possible', I appreciate you're saying it's not but I'm just not sure it's so clear cut