Stuck in relativism, help me get out (please)

[112233]

I've been steeped in relativism since being a teenager. Upon watching part 2 of the post-modernism series, I've made a list of the problems Leo delineates about post-modernism that I personally fall into. I had a list of 40 points, but most of them seem like perversions of relativism / post-modernism and don't apply here.

I think moving forward from this would be dope. Just have no fucking clue how one would go about that.

• Denial of Absolute Truth: I don't deny Truth per se, however I don't see how a tiny monkey brain could ever grasp the complexity of everything.
• Denial of Genuine Understanding: Yes, I am very skeptical of the possibility of a human gaining any kind of understanding beyond the limitations of their human bias. All I see is human bias. How could it be any other way? I am human. I see w/ human eyes, hear w/ human ears, smell w/ human nostrils, think w/ human mind, etc. How could I possibly understand the direct experience of a bat experiencing the world via echolocation?
• Denial of Transcendence: I DO see how one could transcend things like cultural and linguistic bias, however I don't see how one could transcend human bias itself. I can have "transcendent" experiences, but these are all still in the context / construct of human experience, or what a human could experience.
• Self-Contradiction: How the fuck would I go about deconstructing relativism / post-modernism?
• Lack of Holistic Understanding: Yes, absolutely I see knowledge fragmented in the mind of a human. Again, how could a tiny monkey brain grasp the complexity of everything?
• Does Not Lead to Awakening or Enlightenment: Yep.

I'm aware everyone's journey can look wildly different. If any of yous have moved past this stage of development, I'd love to hear anecdotes of how that came about for you personally.

[aurum]

Good stuff. You're on the right track, just need to deepen your understanding.

59 minutes ago, 112233 said:

All I see is human bias. How could it be any other way? I am human. I see w/ human eyes, hear w/ human ears, smell w/ human nostrils, think w/ human mind, etc. How could I possibly understand the direct experience of a bat experiencing the world via echolocation

Because you are not really human.

This is what is revealed with awakening.

59 minutes ago, 112233 said:

I can have "transcendent" experiences, but these are all still in the context / construct of human experience, or what a human could experience.

No, these experiences are not just human. Not if you go deep enough.

That's the whole point.

They are transcendent because they transcend being human.

59 minutes ago, 112233 said:

I don't deny Truth per se, however I don't see how a tiny monkey brain could ever grasp the complexity of everything.

That's why we have tools to help your tiny monkey brain 

59 minutes ago, 112233 said:

How the fuck would I go about deconstructing relativism / post-modernism?

You just need to contemplate. If you watched Leo's series, then should already have a good place to start.

What's wrong with post-modernism? What does it get wrong?

Keep working at that until it's clear.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, 112233 said:

I've been steeped in relativism since being a teenager.

That's good. At least you are thinking. It's a good place to start.

Quote

• Denial of Absolute Truth: I don't deny Truth per se, however I don't see how a tiny monkey brain could ever grasp the complexity of everything.

You won't ever grasp the complexity of every thing, however you can grasp the big picture, the ultimate nature of reality.

"Tiny monkey brain" is a construction. You are neither a monkey nor a brain nor tiny. Those are assumptions and illusions which you can break through.

Quote

• Denial of Genuine Understanding: Yes, I am very skeptical of the possibility of a human gaining any kind of understanding beyond the limitations of their human bias. All I see is human bias. How could it be any other way? I am human. I see w/ human eyes, hear w/ human ears, smell w/ human nostrils, think w/ human mind, etc. How could I possibly understand the direct experience of a bat experiencing the world via echolocation?

Lots of assumptions here.

You assume bats and others exist.

You assume you are a human.

You assume that bias cannot be overcome.

Quote

• Denial of Transcendence: I DO see how one could transcend things like cultural and linguistic bias, however I don't see how one could transcend human bias itself. I can have "transcendent" experiences, but these are all still in the context / construct of human experience, or what a human could experience

Imagine an even higher level of transcendence beyond human experience and perception.

Quote

• Self-Contradiction: How the fuck would I go about deconstructing relativism / post-modernism?

I did it for you in the video.

Relativity is a deep aspect of reality, so you don't need to deconstruct it, you just need to contemplate and properly understand it, rather than abusing it.

Quote

• Lack of Holistic Understanding: Yes, absolutely I see knowledge fragmented in the mind of a human. Again, how could a tiny monkey brain grasp the complexity of everything?

All the finite things have one singular source. By becoming conscious of that source you will understand the essence of all finite things.

You can understand what a cat is without needing to see every cat in the world. Studying a handful of cats is sufficient to understand catness. So it's not as hard as you make it seem.

Quote

• I'm aware everyone's journey can look wildly different. If any of yous have moved past this stage of development, I'd love to hear anecdotes of how that came about for you personally.

Just realize that reality has some ultimate over-arching structure which is not relative, even though within that structure you can have endless points of view.

Reality is a dream imagined by an infinite mind. This is not relative. But the content inside those dreams is relative. Don't get stuck in the content within the dream. You are missing consciousness of that ultimate structure which is not dream-specific.

Edited Friday at 10:27 AM by Leo Gura

[Daniel Balan]

Relativism ain't a bad thing. It is beautiful to understand that everything in this dream is relative. All you need to do is behave in a councious way. Relativism isn't a licence to behave like a psycho! Relativism for me, grounded me even harder in survival, made me understand how serious survival is, and to not take survival for granted.

[Aaron p]

find balance 

Leo's teachings are advanced and lots of it is supplementary not daily sustenance. 

My good friend sent me this (Book name: Psychedelics & Psychotherapy)

Edited Friday at 04:44 PM by Aaron p

[Aaron p]

Bonus insight: the way to best consume the daily bread of Ballance and integration is the strategic elimination of social-spiritual isolation. Being alone is a trap.

[Snader]

On 7.2.2025 at 5:57 AM, 112233 said:

I'm aware everyone's journey can look wildly different. If any of yous have moved past this stage of development, I'd love to hear anecdotes of how that came about for you personally.

I have pretty much dumbed the labels or "spiritual theory" such as God Awakening, Transcendence, Absolute Love, etc. Through different practices I gain insights and experience awakenings, but I try not to label them too much, even though they often have a certain kind of theme or flavor in them, for example infinity, love, oneness, or many simultaneously.

I've had crazy enough experiences to be convinced that not everything real and truthful can be understood in how we conventionally try to understand as human beings. Therefor I have also let go of the need to understand.

I'd say stopping the need to understand has counter-intuitively enabled me to gain understanding. I basically just aim to gently raise my consciousness while living pretty normal life and slowly more and more stuff start making sense and the puzzle getting solved piece by piece, of course in a way I can't perfectly put into words. I think it's important to take your time and not force understanding.

If I had the need to understand everything, make sense of everything or label all my experiences right away, I would probably lose my mind.

Making the journey super personal and keeping it mainly separate from my social life and social identity has also helped a lot. I don't have pressure to communicate my experiences to others so I can kind of "keep the data in its purest form". This although comes with a cost of loneliness and lack of "spiritual connection" to others.

Edited Saturday at 12:52 PM by Snader

[Aaron p]

Leo way more advanced than us, most of us stumble in here nowhere even close to being ready. To put a metric on Leo's level of development as contrasted against us, he was a millionaire. I think around or before the age of 40. Like DAYUM, his ass is not the same as our asses. 

If relativism is fucking you up, then do a tactical retreat my guy. Develop your mind 100 times more than come back when the inner diety guides you to do so ~