Leo's teachings might be sabotaging people

[gettoefl]

20 minutes ago, trenton said:

@Breakingthewall This still sounds like the idea that one day selfish and evil people will get what they deserve like the just world fallacy. My father used to preach to me about how evil people would one day get what was coming to them as he read the bible to me. I'm not convinced that these types of people are horrified at what they have become.

My understanding of karma is much more nuanced than the fancy dressed up way of saying selfish people will ultimately fail. I see karma as multi dimensional and not just as a moral calculus. I see it as multi generational with extremely complex consequences which cannot be clearly calculated. For example there can be karma from my family of criminals which created intergenerational trauma by creating a chaotic environment. Of course I ended up being hurt deeply without asking for any of this. Me being hurt without any fault of my own is a consequence of karma spanning across generations. It is not wrong or evil. Karma is impersonal even if it means innocent people get hurt because of it.

Here is how my father described karma. "I am a good, honest drug dealer. I don't mix my drugs with rat poison. My crack is so good that my customers constantly come back looking for more. I end up making even more money off of this. This is a sign sent from God that I am a good person and what goes around comes around. God is rewarding me with more money and customers for this crack. I don't really believe in the devil, but I do believed that evil people will get what's coming to them."

Good is whatever keeps people alive longest - compared to all the alternatives on offer - so they have a chance to turn life around.

Thus there are good drug dealers and bad drug dealers.

[puporing]

You can forgive people who operate on pretty "different wavelengths" than you are, but you don't need to "hang around" them.  

It's a common problem with the parent/child relationship as the collective pressures you to keep that relationship. But it's no different than leaving any other toxic relationships. To your point yes when your survival depends on them that makes it almost impossible, so most kids from that kind of environment have to wait until they grow up. And even then it can be very hard if you can't easily find other supports. Because well, if you came from that kind of family, chances are your starting point is not the same as other kids, and there's basically nothing in the public domain to try to "even the playing field" for kids like that. 

For example when I first started to leave my family, I was left with many health issues some of which were expensive to fix (no health insurance), and this also made it harder to do certain jobs and continue to be independent. 

The justice system does not adequately protect kids from that kind of family, and cases where children were transferred to yet another abusive foster home. There's a lack of public will/resources to do so as the collective still favor the general notion that roughly translates to "parents can do no wrong", though this is slowly changing by the younger generation.

Edited Saturday at 05:06 PM by puporing

[gettoefl]

@trenton you may enjoy the following article. What if you recovered a memory that your father had murdered someone when you were 9 years old. Should you report it and bring him to justice? One woman did and here are the details:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-08-07/crimes-of-the-times-the-george-franklin-repressed-memory-murder-case

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, trenton said:

This still sounds like the idea that one day selfish and evil people will get what they deserve like the just world fallacy.

2 hours ago, trenton said:

 

It is not that they are going to have a punishment like ruin or cancer, it is that the very fact of being selfish and false creates a dense karmic structure, the individual lives in a lie that is constantly being executed by his mind, and he moves further and further away from himself, this is hell itself. Your drug dealer father may not be the case, just because you are a criminal does not mean that you are far from yourself, morality is relative, but truth and lies are absolute.

[gettoefl]

One man's thief is another man's Robbing Hood. One man's terrorist is another man's imperialist liberator. One man's rapist is another man's biological clock. One man's sociopath is another man's rubbish boundaries.

[Spiral Wizard]

On 2/7/2025 at 3:36 PM, Leo Gura said:

not demonizing selfishness is very, very advanced stuff. Most humans are nowhere close to that. Even spiritual humans will fail at it.

In case anyone wants to know how, this is mastery of integration and requires learning to process pain & emotions. 

Edited Sunday at 05:17 PM by Spiral Wizard

[Breakingthewall]

The issue is not whether or not to demonize selfishness, it is to understand that selfishness closes you to the absolute nature of reality. It's like understanding that hammering your finger hurts, you don't demonize them, you just know they hurt. selfishness closes, period.

Now, at a given moment, what do you prefer, to close yourself off completely or to be eaten by a tiger? thats the question