Poland shoots immigrants legally

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I don't live in Europe. So, why should I take your word for it?

You're just like "trust me bro".

But you sound exactly like every American right-winger who doesn't acknowledge that immigrants statistically commit fewer crimes than people born here.... and still claims that immigration increases the crime rate.

How can you prove to me that Europe is an exception and actually has a correlation between crime and immigration?

Provide some real evidence, and then we can talk about it.

No i don’t care to change your opinion. It’s useless. We don’t have the same statistics as the US because they’re deemed racist here.

 

[ryoko]

"we"

[Emerald]

Just now, ryoko said:

What good does it do even if it's actually true? Does that make immigrants evil?

Obviously not. 

Even if there were some correlation between immigration and the crime rate, there would be absolutely no reason to shoot immigrants on sight. That's just a backward barbaric practice that doesn't belong in the contemporary world.

It's just no way to handle immigration concerns.

But there are others on here who believe that immigrants commit more crimes when they don't.

But even if they did, no country should have "shoot on sight" as their immigration process.

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

No i don’t care to change your opinion. It’s useless. We don’t have the same statistics as the US because they’re deemed racist here.

It would be wise to avoid making claims that you don't actually know to be true and that you can't provide solid evidence for.

Without those statistics, you don't actually know what the reality is regarding immigration and crime statistics.

And you could very well be falling into the trap of unintentionally spreading misinformation because of your biases.

[PurpleTree]

They allegedly commit more violent crimes in certain countries like Sweden.
 

I mostly care about violent crimea. I don’t care about smoking weed, taking drugs, shoplifting and those types of crimes.

[Yimpa]

Now imagine how their government actually treat their legal citizens. 

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

@NewKidOnTheBlock If you don't support Poland shooting immigrants on sight... then it's not you that I'm talking about.

These violent ways are obviously backwards and unnecessary to manage immigration concerns in Poland.

Ok so how do you stop thousands of migrants from advancing? With pepper spray?
You're also going to risk the safety of your border guards by preventing them from using their weapons?

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

And it's not a good sign for the state of the world if a European 2nd world country is regressing backwards in this way.

And it's especially a sign of tribalism with all the guys on this post that are cheering on the shooting... and acting like territorial little yappy dogs that get up in arms when someone is walking on "their street".

I feel like that should be obvious that shooting immigrants on sight is not a skillful or well-developed way to run a society. It's the type of thing you expect from 3rd world countries... not 2nd world countries.

So, it's probably a sign that Poland is degenerating into a 3rd world country... and maybe other nations will follow suit.

It's like saying "Mom pried open her cat's mouth to make him swallow medicine" or "Mom spanked and deprived her son of dessert because he was insulting" and then adding "this is evidence of low conscience, it's not a good sign".
The stages of conscience integrate the previous ones, they are not opposed; You must act differently depending on the situation.
Even if you are a very kind and intelligent person, if a psychotic madman wants to attack your mother (yes this is an exaggerated example to explain my logic) you are not going to treat him in a particularly "highly conscious" way, you are going to do what it takes to put him out of harm's way and get yourself to safety.

 

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

 

But maybe that's just my more emotionally conscious Feminine sensibilities.... like you said. It's just very obvious to me that all of this is bad news for humanity. 

Yes

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

It's like being a mother and watching your child be violent towards their younger sibling... and it's very sad.

Firstly you probably don't know your neighbour yet, so don't pretend that Middle Eastern migrants are brothers. Secondly, it's not the Poles who attack the migrants, but the migrants who try to invite themselves to Poland, sometimes violently, with all the consequences that come with it.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

And it's clear from the mother's point of view that the dispute is a silly one... as most children's conflicts often are.

There is no mother's point of view here

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But the children are still too underdeveloped to share the ball... so the mother must find ways to deter them.

You are delusional.
You are not a mother who manages her sons, you are a random person who is a fan of psychoanalysis on a forum who judges the decision of the government of a third country on its migration policy.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But I always hope for a better, more conscious, and Feminine principled future.

Dont whippin  

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

It's difficult though, when there's so much propaganda that normalizes disconnection and anti-social tendencies.

I also see it the opposite way.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But if anyone who's cheering on other human beings getting killed, should not complain when they too are killed in the violent world they advocated for

Did i forcefully cross the border into another country when police officers told me not to?

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword. And you have no right to complain when you're the one on the chopping block.

Poland lives by the sword ?

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

I personally tend to side with Jesus on this one when he spoke about the tale of the Good Samaritan and "love thy neighbor."

The samaritan occasionally helped a man in danger, he did not put himself in danger by helping thousands of migrants from another country.
The two situations have nothing to do with each other.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

First off, you didn't explain what was illogical about my point. You just made another point.

 

So, tell me what I said specifically that seems illogical to you.

It's done.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Now, I don't know the statistics on this from anywhere but here in America.

 

But in terms of people who immigrate to America (legally or illegally), they tend to commit crimes at a lower rate than people who were born and raised in the US.

Source ? + There are many migrants who are accepted precisely because they are particularly qualified and therefore will probably never commit any crime, less than the local population. Indeed it seems that the white (non-Hispanic) American population is on average more criminal than the Europeans.
Even if I think that the problem is essentially sociological studies on the ethnicity of criminals would be more reliable.
Just look at this, I didn't even bother to see if there were studies, I just remembered that this list existed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Ten_Most_Wanted_Fugitives

There is only one white person among the 10 people.

Again I don't even have a racial view of things, I'm not a white supremacist. I'm trying to give points against uncontrolled immigration.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/prisons-report-series-preliminary-data-release

Non-Hispanic whites represent 31% of the prison population in 2022 while they represent more than 60% of the population.
Black people are not directly migrants, but they have always been socially and culturally isolated from whites

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

I don't know what it's like in Poland specifically, but I'm imagining it would be similar.

No it's probably not.

You have studies that show that most crimes in Germany are committed by Algerians and Albanians, who are a white ethnic subgroup.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Immigrants mostly want to stay off the radar of the police to avoid losing their ability to stay in the country. So, they tend to break laws at lower rates.

Yet they represent most of the crimes committed in Europe where this kind of studies are legal?

You also have to get scammed, i knew someone whose tunisian father did burglaries when he arrived in France, and also scammed a lot of people during his professional career.
The culprits of most crimes do not get arrested.

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But if your claim is that the border police need to be brutal to be effective, I'm going to need some actual evidence of that claim... and not just your assumptions.

No, it's very simple, you don't do anything, even in a group, when faced with armed people. It's up to you to give me your solutions. 👍

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

57 minutes ago, Emerald said:

If you won't bother providing any evidence, what logical reason do I have to believe your claim?

Now, it's hard to find reputable European statistics in either direction because it doesn't seem to have been studied as extensively in Europe. But here is one that seems to have a study connected to it...

https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/20635-eu-research-disproves-link-between-immigration-and-increased-crime

But in America, it's pretty conclusive that legal and illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate to that of natural born US citizens.

Though of course, xenophobes will say otherwise to fear-monger about immigrants and try to justify their xenophobia logically through claiming every immigrant that comes into the country is a rapist Fentanyl-smuggler from MS-13.

And I can only imagine that it's the same in Europe.

And one-off instances of an immigrant committing a crime can always be cherry-picked to create a narrative that immigration rises the crime rate.

Here's the link about American immigration....

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime

It's always fascinating to see the 'if you don't provide evidence, I don't have to believe you' approach—especially when it conveniently ignores that data can be interpreted in multiple ways.

Sure, you found an EU-funded study that claims no link between immigration and crime. And naturally, a government body that supports mass migration would be entirely objective in its research, right? Because the EU has been spot-on with all its policies—like the seamless integration of migrants and the economic boom that was promised. Remind me how well that's working out across Europe?

As for the U.S., it's great that legal immigrants have lower crime rates than native-born citizens. But comparing them to illegal immigrants or, better yet, to entirely different migrant groups in Europe is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Just because it works one way in the States doesn’t mean it’s a universal truth.

And while we're talking about cherry-picking, it’s amusing how any mention of crime related to migration is instantly labeled as fear-mongering. Of course, questioning mass migration policies must be rooted in xenophobia, right? Couldn’t possibly be about maintaining social order or addressing legitimate concerns.

By the way, ever wonder why countries like Poland and Hungary, which have tighter immigration controls, consistently report lower crime rates? But I guess that's just another coincidence we shouldn't read into.

Anyway, keep the studies coming. If nothing else, it’s entertaining to see how far we can stretch a narrative without breaking it.

[PurpleTree]

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

 

 

https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/prisons-report

Non-Hispanic whites represent 31% of the prison population in 2022 while they represent more than 60% of the population.
Black people are not directly migrants, but they have always been socially and culturally isolated from whites

 

It’s not a good example though. Prison and law are messed up in the US.

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

If nothing else, it’s entertaining to see how far we can stretch a narrative without breaking it.

Check out the previous post before yours, Schizo did a funtastic job breaking her narrative down.

[Sincerity]

Poland does not "shoot down immigrants on sight". This is a stupid exaggeration.

[PenguinPablo]

Don't let Trump see this

 

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Sincerity said:

Poland does not "shoot down immigrants on sight". This is a stupid exaggeration.

You're right btw, it's mainly police officers who shoot to scare people.

Even though there are a lot of sociopaths in the police or military most would avoid literally killing people even if it was allowed unless it was a last resort, for obvious reasons.

 

[Sincerity]

Btw, look up what this channel is posting. This is some awful right-wing propaganda.

There is no law in Poland allowing for shooting of illegal migrants.

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Sincerity said:

Btw, look up what this channel is posting. This is some awful right-wing propaganda.

Of course this video is so cringy.

Edited Sunday at 10:30 PM by PurpleTree

[MarkKol]

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, it's probably a sign that Poland is degenerating into a 3rd world country... and maybe other nations will follow suit.

This is false, Poland is not degenerating into a 3rd world country, It's the fastest-growing country in mainland Europe

Cruel laws don't make countries degenerate. For reference, Singapore has death sentences for drug trafficking, if you're caught with 20 grams of Heroin or 1kg of weed they're placing you on death row, and Singapore is ULTRA wealthy, It's basically the Switzerland of Asia while being minuscule.

If there's a country that is degenerating into a 3rd world country it would be Britain, without London they would be really close.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, MarkKol said:

This is false, Poland is not degenerating into a 3rd world country, It's the fastest-growing country in mainland Europe

Cruel laws don't make countries degenerate. For reference, Singapore has death sentences for drug trafficking, if you're caught with 20 grams of Heroin or 1kg of weed they're placing you on death row, and Singapore is ULTRA wealthy, It's basically the Switzerland of Asia while being minuscule.

If there's a country that is degenerating into a 3rd world country it would be Britain, without London they would be really close.

Yea but Poland has a low GDP per capita compared to Western European countries so more room for growth obviously.

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Ok so how do you stop thousands of migrants from advancing? With pepper spray?
You're also going to risk the safety of your border guards by preventing them from using their weapons?

It's like saying "Mom pried open her cat's mouth to make him swallow medicine" or "Mom spanked and deprived her son of dessert because he was insulting" and then adding "this is evidence of low conscience, it's not a good sign".
The stages of conscience integrate the previous ones, they are not opposed; You must act differently depending on the situation.
Even if you are a very kind and intelligent person, if a psychotic madman wants to attack your mother (yes this is an exaggerated example to explain my logic) you are not going to treat him in a particularly "highly conscious" way, you are going to do what it takes to put him out of harm's way and get yourself to safety.

 

Yes

Firstly you probably don't know your neighbour yet, so don't pretend that Middle Eastern migrants are brothers. Secondly, it's not the Poles who attack the migrants, but the migrants who try to invite themselves to Poland, sometimes violently, with all the consequences that come with it.

There is no mother's point of view here

You are delusional.
You are not a mother who manages her sons, you are a random person who is a fan of psychoanalysis on a forum who judges the decision of the government of a third country on its migration policy.

Dont whippin  

I also see it the opposite way.

Did i forcefully cross the border into another country when police officers told me not to?

Poland lives by the sword ?

The samaritan occasionally helped a man in danger, he did not put himself in danger by helping thousands of migrants from another country.
The two situations have nothing to do with each other.

It's done.

Source ? + There are many migrants who are accepted precisely because they are particularly qualified and therefore will probably never commit any crime, less than the local population. Indeed it seems that the white (non-Hispanic) American population is on average more criminal than the Europeans.
Even if I think that the problem is essentially sociological studies on the ethnicity of criminals would be more reliable.
Just look at this, I didn't even bother to see if there were studies, I just remembered that this list existed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Ten_Most_Wanted_Fugitives

There is only one white person among the 10 people.

Again I don't even have a racial view of things, I'm not a white supremacist. I'm trying to give points against uncontrolled immigration.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/prisons-report-series-preliminary-data-release

Non-Hispanic whites represent 31% of the prison population in 2022 while they represent more than 60% of the population.
Black people are not directly migrants, but they have always been socially and culturally isolated from whites

No it's probably not.

You have studies that show that most crimes in Germany are committed by Algerians and Albanians, who are a white ethnic subgroup.

Yet they represent most of the crimes committed in Europe where this kind of studies are legal?

You also have to get scammed, i knew someone whose tunisian father did burglaries when he arrived in France, and also scammed a lot of people during his professional career.
The culprits of most crimes do not get arrested.

No, it's very simple, you don't do anything, even in a group, when faced with armed people. It's up to you to give me your solutions. 👍

To be fair, the framework I'm operating from is a mostly Feminine principled framework. So, I understand if you can't quite see the value of it from where you're at right now. Society isn't too keen on that perspective.

It's taken me a lot of work and maturing to develop that perspective as it isn't taught or valued in society, and I can't expect the average person to understand or grasp the value of it... especially if that person lacks perspective and experience.

Basically, you can't expect someone in Stage Blue to suddenly jump to Stage Green.

I just personally feel unsafe in a world where these kinds of perspectives are normalized... and violence is seen as the answer of all answers.

It's as nonsensical as building your house inside of a grenade to keep yourself safe. 

And then, when you try to convince people that building their house inside of a grenade isn't safe or effective, they call you illogical and say that you're not being practical... and that the immigrants will get you if you don't live inside of a grenade.

So, I try to convince people to wake up to how deeply connected we are with everything else. But of course, it doesn't work. People have to grow in their own time.

I just feel disappointed that people aren't further along. And that makes total and complete sense that I'd feel disappointed and angry about that. 

It's a collective grieving at how regressive we still are. And deep down everyone feels it. Though some will never acknowledge it.

It honestly takes quite a lot of integration between logic and emotional intelligence to start to see the world in this way where there is a recognition that the foreigner is not an inherent enemy. And if you don't get it, perhaps your children will. And if they don't get it, perhaps their children will.

And I have to relinquish any attempts to wake people up. The reality is that you're out cold. And that's just what it is. And life will decide whether or not you wake up.

I suppose we'll just have to learn these lessons the hard and bloody way... just like we have throughout the entirety of human history.

Though I always hope for better.

On another level, I do understand though that anyone who's very attached to things like a collective identity will have a really hard time feeling safe if there are others who are outside of that identity, because it threatens to deconstruct that collective identity and move it to a more world-centric identity.

But those collective identities are in the process of dying anyway. And I get that that's sad for people, and there's some real grieving to do there. But part of me wants to hasten that process to make the world a better place that isn't quite as bleak.

But that's really what the fear is at the end of the day... the loss of identity. The fear of immigrant crime is just a proxy for the real fear.

And I am actually a mother of two. I have a son and a daughter. I don't know why you thought I was making that up.

Edited Monday at 01:16 AM by Emerald

[Basman]

People are complaining but if this happened during any other time in human history these migrants would simply have been massacred and the killers would be celebrated as heroes. The fact that it is at all a question to use violence against these migrants is itself evidence of how far we've come developmentally.

Edited Monday at 01:22 AM by Basman

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

Btw, look up what this channel is posting. This is some awful right-wing propaganda.

There is no law in Poland allowing for shooting of illegal migrants.

 

2 hours ago, MarkKol said:

This is false, Poland is not degenerating into a 3rd world country, It's the fastest-growing country in mainland Europe

Cruel laws don't make countries degenerate. For reference, Singapore has death sentences for drug trafficking, if you're caught with 20 grams of Heroin or 1kg of weed they're placing you on death row, and Singapore is ULTRA wealthy, It's basically the Switzerland of Asia while being minuscule.

If there's a country that is degenerating into a 3rd world country it would be Britain, without London they would be really close.

 

Cruel laws are both a symptom and cause of a country that's regressing and degenerating.

In terms of development, the more the draconian the laws are, the more the society becomes non-conducive to collective actualization.

But my mistake was that I should have fact-checked that Poland is actually shooting immigrants.

So, perhaps that's not true of Poland.