Poland shoots immigrants legally

[Yimpa]

Alcohol is excessively legal and easily accessible to come by, but that doesn’t make it wise.

[PurpleTree]

30 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I'm going to need some actual statistics on the heightened crime rate through immigration.

Here in the states, immigrants (legal and illegal) commit crimes at a lower rate to that of US born citizens.

https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombing-gang-violence-wiretap-children-teenagers/

 

 

https://gript.ie/3-out-of-4-cases-of-murder-manslaughter-and-attempted-murder-in-sweden-attributable-to-migration/

"A table of figures from 2013 -2017 shows that roughly three out of every four cases of murder, manslaughter, and attempted murder was committed by a migrant or the children of migrants”

 

^ don’t know how reliable that website is

[sholomar]

After being on a bit of a North Korean documentary binge, it's hard because you know these people are suffering and they can't just fix their own countries because of human nature and the collective brainwashing of their peers, who are often armed and there's not enough collective resistance to rise up against the communist dictators, but on the other hand it shouldn't be the rest of the world's job to take in everybody and give them free everything... you can only do that for so long before the parasitic burden on the system becomes too large, plus the crime as you mentioned.

It's a tough situation. I catch myself thinking that China should accept the North Korean refugees and at least let them resettle in South Korea, instead of sending them back to their deaths in North Korea. I certainly don't think shooting people on the spot is compassionate, but I can see why some people see it as a solution. Maybe nation building is a good idea, to at least take down autocratic regimes so the people can fix their own countries? At least in the nations that don't have nuclear weapons... seems like we are stuck with North Korea as it is for quite some time.

Most immigrants are good, but the 10-20% of bad apples give the rest a bad name, like anything.  If we did a better job with law enforcement we could punish people for crimes instead of not punishing them, like the left tends to do. Get people who chronically steal and rob off the streets for good, like they do in China so there is no crime? Then you have an autocratic surveillance state. Maybe just put up with the crime as the price of having "freedom". What thinks you?

Edited Sunday at 09:17 PM by sholomar

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Yes

My counter argument would be I don’t believe a person can evolve beyond a community on earth tho. You can't expect a nation full of God conciousness people inside of it. Even one is rare to find. 

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Honestly, I'm not going to bother with linking anything, but I'm pretty sure I would find something if I looked for it. It's just so obvious that the crime increase is real, it's almost common sense. If you think that I should always provide proof for my claims and to justify my arguments, well, I don't really care much for these rules. I care more about the truth, not some bickering

How many muslim immigrants from african and middle eastern countries are comming into United States? Not many, certainly significantly less than what Europe took under it's umbrella. And what do you exactly mean by "US born citizens", are there only white people included in that statistic or, are there also black people? I mean, aren't black people kinda commiting at least half if not more of the crimes? I would need to check on that one but I'm pretty sure that's the case. This would then skew the problems with illegal immigration comming from Mexico, no? And the crime rate from these people.

You are kinda comparing apples and oranges. There are different kinds of illegal immigrants with different kinds of development and values. You Americans never had to deal with a massive surge of muslim illegal immigration so what do yall really know?

If you won't bother providing any evidence, what logical reason do I have to believe your claim?

Now, it's hard to find reputable European statistics in either direction because it doesn't seem to have been studied as extensively in Europe. But here is one that seems to have a study connected to it...

https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/20635-eu-research-disproves-link-between-immigration-and-increased-crime

But in America, it's pretty conclusive that legal and illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate to that of natural born US citizens.

Though of course, xenophobes will say otherwise to fear-monger about immigrants and try to justify their xenophobia logically through claiming every immigrant that comes into the country is a rapist Fentanyl-smuggler from MS-13.

And I can only imagine that it's the same in Europe.

And one-off instances of an immigrant committing a crime can always be cherry-picked to create a narrative that immigration rises the crime rate.

Here's the link about American immigration....

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime

[ryoko]

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

My counter argument would be I don’t believe a person can evolve beyond a community on earth tho. You can't expect a nation full of God conciousness people inside of it. Even one is rare to find. 

What do you think changed humans from what they were 2000 years ago?

It's this very same effort you see here. The effort to do better.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

And I can only imagine that it's the same in Europe.

Nope

[PurpleTree]

The thing is in Europe we don’t have the same statistics as the US about immigrants "races" and so on because it’s deemed racist

[Emerald]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombing-gang-violence-wiretap-children-teenagers/

 

 

https://gript.ie/3-out-of-4-cases-of-murder-manslaughter-and-attempted-murder-in-sweden-attributable-to-migration/

"A table of figures from 2013 -2017 shows that roughly three out of every four cases of murder, manslaughter, and attempted murder was committed by a migrant or the children of migrants”

 

^ don’t know how reliable that website is

Neither of these are actually evidence that more violent crimes are committed by immigrants.

The first one you posted is just about how Sweden is allowing police to wiretap young teenagers because of gang violence.

The second one is called Gript, which appears to be a right wing biased outlet. So, of course they're going to lie and say that immigrants commit most of the crimes because it plays to the bias of their audience.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, ryoko said:

What do you think changed humans from what they were 2000 years ago?

It's this very same effort you see here. The effort to do better.

I actually believe even if you're fully enlightened, part of you will still belong to a community and that community will be sort of exclusive yet not judgmental over other communities. The actual argumentation of this point idk if I could prove it tho. But that seems to be the case when I see all the great prophets and mystics. They all belong to a certain lineage.

[Emerald]

13 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

My counter argument would be I don’t believe a person can evolve beyond a community on earth tho. You can't expect a nation full of God conciousness people inside of it. Even one is rare to find. 

What does this have to do with being for or against Poland shooting immigrants on sight?

You may not be able to find a totally conscious community. But does that mean that you have to lower your own consciousness and advocate violence against an outgroup to fit it?

[ryoko]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

part of you will still belong to a community

yes, to the extend of how much fantasy one have to inherit for their survival.

Edited Sunday at 09:25 PM by ryoko

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

The thing is in Europe we don’t have the same statistics as the US about immigrants "races" and so on because it’s deemed racist

They don't seem to have done much investigation into it.

But trust me. There's plenty of anti-Mexican and anti-Latin American xenophobia here in the states. Yet, we still studied this and released the statistics.

It makes me think that European nations may not be as proactive with these kinds of studies because they will likely find similar outcomes... that crime and immigration aren't correlated.

Countries love to use this false assumption that immigration leads to higher levels of crime to create a collective of people to scapegoat so that they can divide and conquer the populace and redirect people's dissident energy towards people without power.

If your ire is going towards immigrants... then it would be directed towards the powers that be. And if your ire is directed at immigrants, you won't be forming a united forced towards advocating for the interests of ordinary people.

Basically, xenophobia is for suckers.

[Salvijus]

59 minutes ago, Emerald said:

What does this have to do with being for or against Poland shooting immigrants on sight?

 

I was trying to make a point that maintaining a group identity of a community can serve a useful purpose. And the idea that this identity must collapse, something that you proposed, is not necessary practical or even doable. 

[PurpleTree]

If you don’t think immigrants and second and third generation commit more violent crimes in Sweden and many other European countries then you’re quite delusional imo. 

Edited Sunday at 09:32 PM by PurpleTree

[PurpleTree]

Similarly delusional as the dweebs who think it’s a good idea to shoot at immigrants/refugees at the border and that they should be dehumanised.

[ryoko]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

If you don’t think immigrants and second and third generation commit more crimes in Sweden and many other European countries then you’re quite delusional imo.

Consequences of generational racism. Just few hundred years ago, these nations have meddled with so many millions of life in inhumane ways. No, it's not nations, it's people fighting against people, until both got tired and decided to settle it with compromises on the losing side. We were dumb, much dumber than we are now. There's no point in taking sides. If one commits a crime, it's because his environment failed him, it's not because of his race, even if it's a race, it's a structural problem, not a DNA problem.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

If you don’t think immigrants and second and third generation commit more crimes in Sweden and many other European countries then you’re quite delusional imo.

I don't live in Europe. So, why should I take your word for it?

You're just like "trust me bro".

But you sound exactly like every American right-winger who doesn't acknowledge that immigrants statistically commit fewer crimes than people born here.... and still claims that immigration increases the crime rate.

How can you prove to me that Europe is an exception and actually has a correlation between crime and immigration?

Provide some real evidence, and then we can talk about it.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Similarly delusional as the dweebs who think it’s a good idea to shoot at immigrants/refugees at the border and that they should be dehumanised.

Your words hurt more than bullets 🤧

Edited Sunday at 09:39 PM by Salvijus

[ryoko]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

How can you prove to me that Europe is an exception and actually has a correlation between crime and immigration?

What good does it do even if it's actually true? Does that make immigrants evil?