Leo's Hot Take on Socializing: Missing the Point Entirely

[Shodburrito]

@Leo Gura

This might be the most magnificent meltdown from pseudo-spiritual superiority to edgy teenage threats I've ever seen. Way to completely abandon even the pretense of enlightened consciousness!

The fact that you think "spiritual Satan" is somehow a scary threat rather than just embarrassingly cringe is the perfect end to this thread. Thanks for the laugh - this was honestly better comedy than I could have hoped for!

Sweet dreams! 😈🙏

[PenguinPablo]

 

7 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@PenguinPablo

Did you really just drop in with a random MBTI/IQ chart to defend judging people based on introversion/extroversion? Talk about missing the entire point of this discussion. We're critiquing spiritual elitism and judgmental hierarchies, and your response is to... create another hierarchy? With an unverified MBTI chart? 😂

This is exactly the kind of thinking we're criticizing - trying to prove some people are "better" or "superior" based on arbitrary categories. Not to mention using MBTI (which has been widely criticized for lack of scientific validity) and IQ (a deeply flawed measure of intelligence) to do it.

The irony of jumping into a conversation about the problems with spiritual superiority complexes by trying to prove introverts are smarter is just... chef's kiss perfect. You've accidentally provided a great example of exactly the kind of reductive, hierarchical thinking we're talking about.

But hey, at least you've given us all a good laugh! 😄

It's quite obvious if you interact with and observe people that there is differences in depth between people, and consequently different personalities. But yes there are dumbass introverts as well. Plenty of them.

Like they say, better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

[Shodburrito]

@PenguinPablo

"It's quite obvious if you interact with and observe people that there is differences in depth between people" - So you're doubling down on the exact same reductive thinking while still missing the entire point of the criticism. You really think you can measure someone's "depth" based on how they interact socially or their personality type? That's not observation - that's just judgment dressed up as insight.

And then you hit me with that cliché quote about remaining silent, as if that somehow proves your point instead of just showing more intellectual superiority posturing? The irony of using that quote while continuing to demonstrate exactly the kind of superficial categorization of human consciousness we're criticizing...

"But yes there are dumbass introverts as well. Plenty of them." - Oh how generous of you to acknowledge that intelligence isn't perfectly correlated with introversion after literally posting an IQ chart trying to prove introverts are smarter.

You're so committed to proving you can judge people's "depth" that you can't even see how shallow that kind of thinking is. Keep talking though - you're doing a great job proving my points about reductive hierarchical thinking! 😄

[PenguinPablo]

9 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@PenguinPablo

"It's quite obvious if you interact with and observe people that there is differences in depth between people" - So you're doubling down on the exact same reductive thinking while still missing the entire point of the criticism. You really think you can measure someone's "depth" based on how they interact socially or their personality type? That's not observation - that's just judgment dressed up as insight.

And then you hit me with that cliché quote about remaining silent, as if that somehow proves your point instead of just showing more intellectual superiority posturing? The irony of using that quote while continuing to demonstrate exactly the kind of superficial categorization of human consciousness we're criticizing...

"But yes there are dumbass introverts as well. Plenty of them." - Oh how generous of you to acknowledge that intelligence isn't perfectly correlated with introversion after literally posting an IQ chart trying to prove introverts are smarter.

You're so committed to proving you can judge people's "depth" that you can't even see how shallow that kind of thinking is. Keep talking though - you're doing a great job proving my points about reductive hierarchical thinking! 😄

I recognize that my model of the world is limited. And am gathering more data as an ongoing project. 

I agree it is a judgement. But we need to make judgements everyday to some extent. It could be very costly for me from a "survival" perspective to not have somewhat of a grasp on people. 

I need to handle people differently according to their abilities, strengths & weakness , so on and so forth. Imagine allowing some 90 IQ sociopath ruin my life because I was too charitable in my judgement of him. One must have a strong grasp of other people, and yes that leads to certain judgments of depth, values, etc... because I need to fucking understand what motivates them. 

And of course that model could be completely off the mark, but I am still alive. So my method is serving it's purpose thus far.

The quote I used in that context was to show that we usually give the silent types the benefit of the doubt that they are smarter, that there are silently judging our intellectual superiority.

But the reality is that if many of them spoke up, we'd realize how fucking stupid they are they wouldn't get the benefit of our generous heuristic.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by PenguinPablo

[integral]

50 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

@integral

If socializing feels like "acting" and following a "long list of arbitrary rules," that's not a sign of spiritual awakening - it's more likely a sign of difficulty with authentic human connection. Reducing all social interaction to "ego games" and "arbitrary rules" is an incredibly reductionistic view that misses the vast spectrum of genuine human interactions that happen every day. Real conversations between close friends, intimate moments with family, spontaneous connections with strangers - these aren't performances, they're authentic expressions of our shared humanity.

Seeing every social interaction as a performance you have to "design a better ruleset" for suggests something deeper might be going on. When someone perceives all social interaction as artificial or performative, that's often a sign of social anxiety, attachment issues, or other challenges with emotional connection - not some elevated state of consciousness. Real authenticity isn't about deconstructing every social interaction into some mechanical game. It's about being present and genuine with others, something that happens naturally when we're comfortable with ourselves and our connections.

Maybe if socializing always feels like acting, the issue isn't with socializing - it's with your relationship to it. Instead of trying to create new "rulesets" for human interaction, it might be worth exploring why genuine connection feels so unnatural in the first place.

@ShodburritoI agree with many of the things here. But the final point you’re making is that genuine connection is possible with everyone all the time. And it’s not. Most of the time people are closed off and you need to rip them open with good vibe. And that doesn’t work all the time. There’s diversity here. It’s not just black-and-white. That I’m suddenly loving every conversation because I’m awake.

There are endless books, teaching people how to socialize, for a good reason because if it was easy, these books wouldn’t exist,

People are conditioned into role-playing ego games, and they socialize with a specific meta language that everyone is blind to.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by integral

[112233]

Damn this blog post triggered Shod big time.

I was wondering what benefit someone gets from engaging this way (accusation, judgement, mockery, contempt, sarcasm, ect) and this is the list GPT gave me, which helped me understand:
-Catharsis
-Feeling of Intellectual Superiority
-Social/Tribal Validation
-Moral Righteousness / Holding Someone Accountable
-Personal Validation / Defending Their Own Identity
-Ego Boost / "Winning" the Argument
-Sense of Control Over Disappointment
-Entertainment / Drama Engagement

[integral]

@112233 he was triggered, it’s ironic to criticize someone else’s social perspective,, but to do so with very ineffective social strategy. 

Edited 13 hours ago by integral

[Kairos]

1 hour ago, PenguinPablo said:

 

Personality temperament and IQ has 0 relations wtf is this lol .

Somebody could be a ESFJ and have 200iq .

Edited 13 hours ago by Kairos

[Kairos]

Go actually study deeper Jungian psychology and you'll see these stats are trash . 

+ IQ tests are highly biased towards Ne and Ti users like xNTPs .(Abstract intelligence)

I'm also ENTP but I know there are many aspects in which sensors are smarter than us like when it comes to kinetic intelligence(sports intelligence).

Edited 13 hours ago by Kairos

[PenguinPablo]

19 minutes ago, Kairos said:

Personality temperament and IQ has 0 relations wtf is this lol .

Somebody could be a ESFJ and have 200iq .

Do you know what percentage is sir

I also think sensors are way smarter socially

Edited 13 hours ago by PenguinPablo

[Kairos]

3 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

Do you know what percentage is sir

I see what you are saying but you have to know that IQ tests are baised towards intuitives because it requires ABSTRACT INTELLIGENCE .

 

[Oppositionless]

Social intelligence is how you get money , very many important lessons. Good friends can point out blind spots in you. A lot of this pretty elementary and not developed , and important  

Edited 12 hours ago by Oppositionless

[freddyteisen]

@Shodburrito Be aware of the attitude and defending your position. Some of your points are fine and good, and so are Leo’s. His video and answers are nuanced, not black-and-white.

For me his socialization episode was one of the most insightful & enlightening.

It’s just hard to wrap your mind around if you cling to socializing, and if that’s all you do mostly.

Edited 10 hours ago by freddyteisen

[RendHeaven]

4 hours ago, Shodburrito said:

"You're just not evolved enough to understand."

Maybe this is just true, and you're being a drama queen

4 hours ago, Shodburrito said:

Your responses in this thread have been a masterclass in spiritual ego

No you

[HelluvaGuy]

The man just shared a perspective with us and there you come with this meltdown. Why are people so insistent on getting offended at every little thing Leo says? Stop making this so personal!  Just lighten up - if you disagree with him, that's fine, just move on. Remove that stick from your ass and perhaps you'll discover life is far more enjoyable without it. Also, I would be mindful of those projections of yours. All available evidence suggests Leo has done a lot of socializing in his life, so he has arrived to this perspective through lots of experience. 

Perhaps I am biased because I am also deeply introverted so the perspective does appeal to me. I don't usually enjoy socializing, but that doesn't mean I don't ever engage in it. Sometimes, one has to bite the bullet and do things they'd rather not do. Is it impossible to find depth and great meaning from relationships? No, I don't think it is, though meeting the right type of people may prove to be a challenge. It's a complicated and paradoxical affair. 

[RendHeaven]

Just now, HelluvaGuy said:

The man just shared a perspective with us and there you come with this meltdown.

And bro feels the need to hoot and holler about how he "won" by hogging the last word and spamming emojis to signify that he's unaffected when secretly he's seething lol

[mmKay]

4 hours ago, 112233 said:

Damn this blog post triggered Shod big time.

I was wondering what benefit someone gets from engaging this way (accusation, judgement, mockery, contempt, sarcasm, ect) and this is the list GPT gave me, which helped me understand:
-Catharsis
-Feeling of Intellectual Superiority
-Social/Tribal Validation
-Moral Righteousness / Holding Someone Accountable
-Personal Validation / Defending Their Own Identity
-Ego Boost / "Winning" the Argument
-Sense of Control Over Disappointment
-Entertainment / Drama Engagement

Props to you brother. Keep looking at people through this lens and you will soon become a wise man. Anything that seems like irrational or even self-destructive behavior ALWAYS serves some beneficial purpose although often subconscious or logically twisted.

[something_else]

You sound VERY angry mate, over something that’s ultimately pretty inconsequential. Why did this post hurt you so much? You doing OK?

[JosephKnecht]

@Shodburrito I watched the video below while going through this forum post, so I will try to explain the difference between your perspective and Leo's perspective through the video. Please watch the video first. 

The person on the right is Harry Mack. A freestyle rapper who has spent more than 20 years working on this talent in solitude while creating music. The effort he has spent honing his lyricism in solitude is incomprehensible. 

The people on the left are athletes wasting time trying to talk to strangers online. 

@Shodburrito Now ask yourself, why are the guys on the left applauding Harry Mack? 

Because he demonstrated a capability that none of them has, namely to create a song on the spot from a few random words. Do you think this is a skill Harry would have developed if he was one of the athletes and socializing like them? No, very unlikely. 

There are benefits to solitude, especially if you are the one who wants to stand out from the crowd with your talents. There are benefits and costs to solitude, and there are benefits and costs to socializing. You have to weigh these benefits and costs and decide what is best for you. If you want to socialize, do it, but realize there are costs to it. If you want to be alone, do it, but realize there is also a cost to it.

The beauty of this ordeal is that Harry needed words from the guys on the left so that he can impress them. If nobody saw his talent and he was only singing in his basement, there would be nobody that could be impressed by his talent. And the athletes needed Harry Mack to pull them out of their boredom for 5 minutes. So beautiful.  

 

[PenguinPablo]

17 minutes ago, JosephKnecht said:

 

 

Love how much they appreciated what he just did. Watched the whole thing. It’s pretty impressive 

Edited 8 hours ago by PenguinPablo