Check out this guy's transition from M to F

[Consept]

8 hours ago, Hojo said:

This is 100 percent true. God give them a body to navigate reality and they are mutilating it cause they feel feminine and think they are ugly. God gave them that body to navigate the Earth not make up stories and mutilate themselves. The fact that its glorified is insanity.

This is them not feeling beautiful but wanting to be feminine. You can be feminine and not maim the self and they could be attractive if they were not depressed/schizophrenic. They think this will turn the voice in their head off. Well good luck with that its a metaphysical logical thought trap.

Now they can feel valuable and loved but for the wrong reasons. The old ego is still underneath the new identity and it wont go away until the new identity is deconstructed. Its like building a mansion on a crappy house.

Everyone constructs an ego though, people identify as goths, some people get extreme body modification, tattoos etc, you could make the same argument you're making with trans in that, theyre not really a goth, is a mental illness thats led to them changing their body and looks. A goth could be mentally ill as well and a trans person might not be mentally ill but theres a special outrage for trans people. Everyone in society has a constructed identity, its just theres ones that loads of people subscribe to, mainstream identities if you will and theres some that are more niche, the ones that are mainstream usually seem to look down on the niche ones and in some cases question their right to even exist, especially if it threatens their own identity  

Edited January 31 by Consept

[Yimpa]

@Something Funny  It seems to me that you yourself also want to transition, based on your postings in the past. Is this a fair assumption? 

[Hojo]

@Consept what does gothhave to do with cutting your chest open to put titties in there? Or cutting your penis off to turn it into a vagina? There is a special outrage against it because there is a special outrage for it and it goes too far. And it teaches people that body modifications will somehow change your mental state. Its not an upgrade its a cry to get out of the body. Since they can't do that they assume that changing the body will make them feel better and its proven that it dosent really work that way.

I'm not looking down on anyone. I am saying if you have mental suffering cutting your body open is not the answer. You dont change outside reality to change inside the body.

Id argue the fact that you are just so open for them to self mutilate you are looking down on them and don't care.

If we were talking about Gothic mutilation I would say the same thing but we aren't. You just want to grandstand for trans. I don't cause I think its an identity issue that is within the heart.

Goth does not mean sex.

Edited January 31 by Hojo

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

15 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Something Funny  It seems to me that you yourself also want to transition, based on your postings in the past. Is this a fair assumption? 

LOL friendly fire in the house

[Hojo]

@Something Funny Attacked for one conversation, suddenly becomes all I've done in my body,as a shitty argument for body mutilation. 

Edited January 31 by Hojo

[Consept]

17 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Consept what does gothhave to do with cutting your chest open to put titties in there? Or cutting your penis off to turn it into a vagina? There is a special outrage against it because there is a special outrage for it and it goes too far. And it teaches people that body modifications will somehow change your mental state. Its not an upgrade its a cry to get out of the body. Since they can't do that they assume that changing the body will make them feel better and its proven that it dosent really work that way.

I understand where you're coming from in terms of an external solution may not improve an internal issue, but either way who are we to police that and say what's too far?

There's people literally getting body modifications to look like lizards and aliens and there's not really any outrage for that, no one really cares. So I don't really get the outrage here. 

Also if you care about people's mental health would it affect your opinion if there were many studies that found gender affirming care improved mental health? 

"In this prospective cohort of 104 TNB youths aged 13 to 20 years, receipt of gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones, was associated with 60% lower odds of moderate or severe depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality over a 12-month follow-up."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423

I'm not saying there are absolutely no issues around the trans topic, but I don't really understand why people care so much and get so involved. There are probably more people addicted to plastic surgery or try and get it cheap in foreign countries that has a lot more issues around it, mental health and the practicality of the surgery. 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Btw even if he passed as a chick, he would be average at best. Maybe it's time to have some self respect and standards as men. This is not some crazy "glow up" or whatever

[Hojo]

@Consept The outrage is that its inside the school system tell children when they are very vulnerable in identity creations state that its good to do. We don't have corporations and school and government encouraging Gothic body modification. But we do have them telling them that changing their gender will. When it won't.

Edited January 31 by Hojo

[Hojo]

@Consept We care because we care about people and whats happening to them. The whole idea of having no pushback and when their is pushback the person gets madly questioned like they are saying something evil is insanity.

I care because the narrative is being pushed in every direction I look and I see its just ridiculous and dangerous messaging. Its glorifying mental suffering. 

Hey look at me! I was very sad and hated myself but I cut my genitals off and now I am happy!

Total bs.

Edited January 31 by Hojo

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Consept We care because we care about people and whats happening to them. The whole idea of having no pushback and when their is pushback the person gets madly questioned like they are saying something evil is insanity.

I care because the narrative is being pushed in every direction I look and I see its just ridiculous and dangerous messaging.

So if you care wouldn't you be happy to know that suicidality was 73% lower after gender affirming care for that group that was studied?

Or does your care only extend to treatment you approve of even if its not as effective in regard to their mental health?

[Consept]

13 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Consept The outrage is that its inside the school system tell children when they are very vulnerable in identity creations state that its good to do. We don't have corporations and school and government encouraging Gothic body modification. But we do have them telling them that changing their gender will. When it won't.

Plastic surgery is a massive industry and it is encouraged a lot through social media. There are a lot more people who undertake that some of which is extremely dangerous, it affects a lot more people as well which means much more negative outcomes overall. Point is there's not the sane outrage over this much greater issue. 

[Hojo]

@Consept its a bandaid. As them how much stopped hating themselves. I just Google and this is the first thing that came up.

Gender-affirming surgeries were associated with a 42% reduction in psychological distress and a 44% reduction in suicidal ideation when compared with transgender and gender-diverse people who had not had gender-affirming surgery but wanted it, according

All the studies are different. Here's one that says less than 45

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/#:~:text=Gender-affirming surgeries were associated,it%2C according to the findings.

Less than 45 is not good and is showing it dosent work. That mean you have more than 55 percent that said this didn't work.

Gender is made up by you. The body isn't you.

Edited January 31 by Hojo

[Something Funny]

38 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Something Funny Attacked for one conversation, suddenly becomes all I've done in my body,as a shitty argument for body mutilation. 

You argument about body mutilation is the shitty one, lol.

 

[Hojo]

@ConseptThis thread isn't talking about plastic surgery. You are assuming that i am not talking about other surgeries because I am attacking trasn. I'm in a forum talking about trans people that why I am not talking about plastic surgery. When talking about trans why must I address every kind of body modification surgery at the same time?

[Something Funny]

@Yimpa no, I don't

[Hojo]

@Something Funny i encourage you to get it so you can see yourself then.

[Something Funny]

@Hojo I thought your god will get really upset if I do?

[Hojo]

@Something Funny Mine won't yours will.

Edited January 31 by Hojo

[Consept]

40 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Consept its a bandaid. As them how much stopped hating themselves. I just Google and this is the first thing that came up.

Gender-affirming surgeries were associated with a 42% reduction in psychological distress and a 44% reduction in suicidal ideation when compared with transgender and gender-diverse people who had not had gender-affirming surgery but wanted it, according

All the studies are different. Here's one that says less than 45

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/#:~:text=Gender-affirming surgeries were associated,it%2C according to the findings.

Less than 45 is not good and is showing it dosent work. That mean you have more than 55 percent that said this didn't work.

Gender is made up by you. The body isn't you.

If you quoting that study then obviously it's a success. You seem to be misreading it, it's saying on average there was a decrease in people who had surgeries had a decrease in suicidal ideation and psychological distress. It's like saying the average lost 42% of their body fat after doing a certain diet, you're not gonna say it's not a success because they didn't lose all of it. This is actually a better study than my example. Also different studies will have slightly different outcomes but usually if the size is as close as possible and there's a good number of participants you should see a general trend, you could also look at a meta analysis of all the studies to see a more complete picture. But at least from both the studies we've shared we can see positive outcomes. 

 

41 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@ConseptThis thread isn't talking about plastic surgery. You are assuming that i am not talking about other surgeries because I am attacking trasn. I'm in a forum talking about trans people that why I am not talking about plastic surgery. When talking about trans why must I address every kind of body modification surgery at the same time?

You don't have to of course but I'm just making the point that you don't seem to have the same concern for a much bigger issue that you have for the relatively small issue of trans surgery. Or maybe I'm misreading you and you really care I don't know. 

[Hojo]

@Consept you are saying I don't have 'concern for something that wasn't even mentioned to he concern about. Its like talking about cars and someone mentioning race cars go fast and you are saying why aren't you talking about motorcycles going fast they can go fast too. Yes they can but no one was talking about it until you brought it up. I cant talk about every single interaction with body dystopia at the same time and I won't bring up every instance we we talking about specific thing.

If gender affirming surgery worked it would be in the 90s. Having a 40 percent reduction is a band aid that won't last. They still have 55 percent body dismorphia stress after maiming themselves and therapy affirming they are a woman. Thats not good thats bad. Its actually showing the genitals have low or 0 effect on it.

Why not give them gender affirming therapy before cutting the genitals off?

Edited January 31 by Hojo