Science vs. Religion

[Someone here]

@Atb210201 Heroin also makes people happy..so....

[UnbornTao]

@Someone here But what are perception and meaning?

This is about insight rather than conjecture, preference, consensus, and so forth. Intellect, feeling and intuition aren't the only tools available, despite our cultural presumption that they are; direct apprehension is possible, which is why I brought up the historical antecedent. Oversimplified, the absolute is like a sheet of paper, while the content of the sheet is the relative. Everything is absolute, including the relative, and what allows for the existence and recognition of the relative as distinct, is that it has a particular form -- whatever’s painted on the sheet is some form, that is, it exists relative to what it is not. Don't take this too seriously, though -- it's an analogy.

As a meditation, take a small object in your vicinity and ask yourself: What is it, independent of me? What is there as a presence?

We operate on the assumption that what we perceive is an accurate reflection of what’s there and generally don’t move past that. However, this might not be the case. In fact, to tackle the question of meaning, where is it found? In your relationship with and experience of things, hence, in your mind. A tree exists. Asking what the tree means does not make sense in itself. What exactly are we asking by that?

The question of what something means applies whenever value and use are attributed to the object, in relation to one’s self and agenda. As itself, an object just is. A tree doesn't seem to despair over the meaning of its life. It is "tree-ing", and that is it. Without the act of generating meaning, it isn’t found anywhere! Relative to itself, the question of what the object means is nonsensical, superficial. It could be said that it exists, hence its meaning is that it is. I suspect you'll hear that as a negative, yet that would still be operating from within the meaning framework. It doesn't mean anything that it doesn't mean anything. You are free from meaning, and can also create it.

Now, fuck my assertions and anyone else’s. What is the case here?

Edited February 6 by UnbornTao

[Atb210201]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Atb210201 Heroin also makes people happy..so....

Does it have bad side effects?

[z3rolight]

@UnbornTao I say stop asking yourself so many questions!. You get lost among them!... You waste your precious time, looking for answers!. The more you get to split the thread in four and think more deeply about the meaning of life?!. The more confused you become and you no longer understand anything. Quantum physics, science, religions, esotericism!?. All at some point when you get to research and seek the truth you will not find the answer!. We are too small to understand who we are, where we came from, where we are going... when the physical body dies?... All these theories, religions, concepts, philosophies only make us ask ourselves more, question marks!. Live the life you received as a gift.Life is too short for so many questions!... Live the present - the present is consciousness.Live naturally, nature gives us an example.Nature, also in the universal system, is happy! Why can't we humans live happily?...Because we ask ourselves too many questions about life!?.And we forget about life itself?.

 

note: Please understand that I don't know English that well... I usually translate through Google.Thank you

Edited February 5 by z3rolight

[UnbornTao]

@z3rolight It's fine, thank you.

I would add that if one's commitment is to understanding, then the attitude implied in your post is not a mindset we can afford, as it is essentially a justification for ignorance based on a desire for comfort and convenience. You are right, though, that there are times when tools other than the intellect and logic should be used, such as sitting in stillness, feeling, and so on. And it can all be part of the investigation as a whole.

Edited February 7 by UnbornTao

[z3rolight]

@UnbornTao Comfort and convenience depend on each individual... on their nature!. The searches of each individual... differ depending on how hungry they are for the truth. It depends on the nature of the person and his soul.?

[UnbornTao]

Just now, z3rolight said:

@UnbornTao Comfort and convenience depend on each individual... on their nature!. The searches of each individual... differ depending on how hungry they are for the truth. It depends on the nature of the person and his soul.?

Perhaps, but what is one's nature? It might not be what we think it is. From that recognition, we can begin investigating the matter freshly.

[z3rolight]

@UnbornTao Reference to what I wrote;... I don't force anyone to think like this!. I mean; we ask ourselves too many unanswered questions. I say this from experience!. I say this because I too have had many questions about life!. And I am old. But that doesn't mean I know anything!. I don't contradict anyone. My conclusion about life. Is to live the present as it comes without resisting the current sometimes because what comes even if it is bad... It comes to teach you something to propose you to another level of knowledge. It is said: :"When you know nothing you know everything"..!~Why does it say in the Bible: : Let the children come to me" (because children are not brainwashed by so many concepts and philosophies... which we humans have also created). Live like a happy child!... That is the meaning of life...

Edited February 5 by z3rolight

[z3rolight]

@UnbornTao _Human nature is alive... and it comes simple!. We have complicated this human nature through unbelief!. From here, human contradictions and individualization intervened... the manipulation of people through concepts, philosophies, religions, etc. (which we also created). Human nature; we received life simple!. We have complicated it by not having credit for God in everything he created!. This is how we became easily influenced by religions, philosophical things, science!.. These institutions lead us!!!. (I wonder what they would live on if not from our naivety). We have created this complicated and entangled world. Indeed, as an individual, each person can wear masks!. That depends on his responsibility... who... how he wants to be?!

[UnbornTao]

@z3rolight Sounds good. Still, the question of what the human condition really is remains.

 

Edited February 5 by UnbornTao

[z3rolight]

@UnbornTao      Which one are you referring to?. Because I don't understand. Maybe I should answer you with a question. Maybe... that way you don't put doubt in the first place?

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, z3rolight said:

@UnbornTao      Which one are you referring to?. Because I don't understand. Maybe I should answer you with a question. Maybe... that way you don't put doubt in the first place?

As they say, there's no freedom of thought without doubt. 

[z3rolight]

You are right!. That's what you say!. But you can think without a doubt.

[UnbornTao]

@z3rolight My bad. I think I understand your question now, and so edited my response above. The question is just about the human condition as a whole -- experience, emotion, perception, relationship, performance, principles, and so on.

Edited February 5 by UnbornTao

[integral]

On 1/27/2025 at 6:04 PM, Someone here said:

Now we know by now scientifically that this is not the case. And any religious person can read about the contradictions between modern science and their religion. Yet still the majority of people all around the globe do subscribe to various religions like Christianity..Islam..Buddhism..Sikhism etc

The real mindfuck is when you try to disprove religion without science.

Completely delete everything you ever learn of science from your mind. Then construct a perspective that is higher than religion without science as a crutch. 

Edited February 5 by integral

[z3rolight]

@UnbornTao The human condition as a whole depends on many factors!... It depends on your interior as developed in consciousness, and external factors of course... But the exterior is not so important!. The exterior depends on your interior!. Reality unfolds like a mirror depending on your interior evolution as spirit, consciousness and not only!. Yes!... and it also depends a lot on emotions and your perception of people and society... How you look at the state of people and the situations that come to you and how you receive and treat them!... Relationships and performance also depend on your state of evolution. If you are in acceptance and learn acceptance... and you end up not being bothered or upset by a person, a situation or a conflict!?. Then you have become an evolved consciousness, let's say. I still have problems with emotions too; I still have a lot to learn. Maybe I am a more emotional person, probably, or I still have a lot to learn!..

[z3rolight]

@integral--- /Forgive me if I offended you!. I do not support religion, science, esotericism, the concepts and morals of society. I am in alignment and totally agree with everything that exists. I am not against any system; I am even happy with all the currents that have existed so far and that exist! I believe that; from all of them I have discovered something to reach an understanding and a liberation of self. I am not writing here to show off or to gain something!. (I have nothing to gain, maybe to waste time?). I am just sharing some knowledge. I am offering this information for free. Because what you have acquired over time through years of searching... The questions also flowed to me, what is and what role does life have?!. I wanted to share with my fellow men the joy of living!. If you think that I should retire. I do it with joy. If not, I will also gladly leave you. I do not force and I do not want to lead anyone into errors!. I am sincere in what I have written so far and everything I have written. I wrote from the heart without any purpose. Thank you for understanding.

[UnbornTao]

@z3rolight Thank you for the input. Consider, though, that contemplation as an intellectual activity is only a starting point. There are things that aid this work; arrogance and opinions aren't among them. From what I can tell, you are standing on a bunch of presumptions and conjecture, and that's fine. Yet, what helps here is being open and straightforward with oneself about one's experience as it is actually lived. This pushes us to experience the work and to make observations for ourselves, not just intellectualize about stuff.

Edited February 7 by UnbornTao

[integral]

The real way to understand religion is to discover/construct spirituality and religion from the ground up.

Pointing out flaws is easy, construction is hard.

Edited February 6 by integral

[z3rolight]

@UnbornTaoYes!... I understood what purpose this platform is built for and on what basis!. If the moderators jump on you with twisted questions supporting only their opinion, their truth.... Without taking into account the freedom of expression of man!. When there are rules for expression and the opinion of man is restricted. The basis is conspiracy - disinformation and supporting the principles of their rules!. In short, a tabloid of distorting the truth and its influences. Where there is no freedom of expression.?. THE TABLOID - IS THE INFLUENCE OF THE MASS with well-founded goals.