New Ralston Interview

[kieranperez]

Go blow it up. 

[Someone here]

I like how he is angry and "worked up" while laughing simultaneously. 

[Lyubov]

First five seconds is pure truth. Just stop. If you so choose, just stop it. You look for evidence and create a victim status because it’s familiar but your finger has been on the button the entire time and it just culminates in dropping it … it’s really that simple. 

[puporing]

He comes off as quite dissociated and so can only offer a limited view on "suffering", you can be stuck in that kind of state for the rest of your life and not break out of it. Humans are not rabbits or trees in general because they are already in very different states of consciousness, and to try to be like them is not going to lead to more consciousness. This is like your classic CBT methods where you become less conscious by trying to dissociate. You can identify (perhaps with the help of a skilled person, given that they are less dissociated), to what extent is one's suffering a result of their immediate environment or their "own doing", but it's usually not just "one's own doing".   

He also appears to lack much life experience; some people in this world can cause you "unnecessary suffering", especially if you can't get away from them and your survival depends on dealing with them to one extent or another. So for example what he talks about, just because you might think "there is nothing wrong with you", if the reaction you get from people (especially if it relates to work/basic survival) is the opposite, you're going to suffer. 

It appears he has little to no experience with people manipulating him to gain some kind of survival advantage over him (that is once again not "just one's own doing"), also related to his racial and gender status at least to some degree.

Edited Monday at 05:34 AM by puporing

[Whitney Edwards]

First few seconds is pure gold. 

[Princess Arabia]

45 minutes ago, puporing said:

He comes off as quite dissociated and so can only offer a limited view on "suffering", you can be stuck in that kind of state for the rest of your life and not break out of it. Humans are not rabbits or trees in general because they are already in very different states of consciousness, and to try to be like them is not going to lead to more consciousness. This is like your classic CBT methods where you become less conscious by trying to dissociate. You can identify (perhaps with the help of a skilled person, given that they are less dissociated), to what extent is one's suffering a result of their immediate environment or their "own doing", but it's usually not just "one's own doing".   

He also appears to lack much life experience; some people in this world can cause you "unnecessary suffering", especially if you can't get away from them and your survival depends on dealing with them to one extent or another. So for example what he talks about, just because you might think "there is nothing wrong with you", if the reaction you get from people (especially if it relates to work/basic survival) is the opposite, you're going to suffer.

This comment should be cut and pasted and used as an example of how the mind puts in in suffering mode. Classic example of suffering. Everything here is in future sense and being predicted ahead of time that will cause the suffering to come. The mind is already setting the stage for when the time comes to make sure it suffers according to plan. You're unaware you're doing it because it's such a habit the mind carries on with (past and future living), but it's exactly how suffering works. Totally thought patterns here and nothing actually happening to you now. It builds a storyline as to why people suffer who suffers and creates a timeline for the suffering. All thought. Just as the video suggests. 

Edited Monday at 05:38 AM by Princess Arabia

[puporing]

No, I'm speaking from experience both with myself and people I come across experiencing suffering, it's way too simplistic to just wave it off all as "one's own doing", this is deeply inaccurate and a result of a tremendous lack of life experience, lack of empathy, lack of experience counselling people going through suffering, etc. 

We just have different minds that's okay.

[Breakingthewall]

The problem with this type of classic self-help is that people believe this: you are causing your suffering, stop doing it! tadah! and they never go deeper into themselves, they remain isolated, far from their truth, incapable of creating deep relationships, lobotomized, like Ralston.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, puporing said:

No, I'm speaking from experience both with myself and people I come across experiencing suffering, it's way too simplistic to just wave it off all as "one's own doing", this is deeply inaccurate and a result of a tremendous lack of life experience, lack of empathy, lack of experience counselling people going through suffering, etc. 

We just have different minds that's okay.

It is very obvious that you were speaking from experience. That's the whole point. Only a structured mind that knows how to put itself in suffering mode and can predict when it's going to suffer. I'm also speaking from experience where I've realized how the thought patterns that I entertained was what I was suffering and not the event itself. Ohhhh, everybody has suffered in this thing called life at some point or another so we all have experience in this field. All I can say is that there is no suffering without thoughts and thoughts aren't necessary for an event to be experienced. 

[JosephKnecht]

Sorry to say this guys, but it's not real.  

[puporing]

Works for someone like you, not for someone like me. I don't have these "self-induced" patterns like Peter talks about, that's long been worked through. It's 99% my environment and people around me and what they're "doing to me" at this point, such as manipulations, gaslighting, lack of consciousness, etc, and I know what that sounds like to most people. 

[Staples]

He's not wrong. But not sure he realizes he has the unique ability to 'stop doing suffering'.

It's not like people can 'just do it'. You got to have a pretty damn developed and trained mind.

[RightHand]

2 hours ago, Staples said:

He's not wrong. But not sure he realizes he has the unique ability to 'stop doing suffering'.

It's not like people can 'just do it'. You got to have a pretty damn developed and trained mind.

He's flexing his levels of consciousness 

[Breakingthewall]

Suffering is for a reason. The only way for suffering to cease is through real enlightenment, and that is very rare. We suffer because our psyche is not in perfect harmony, and this lack of harmony is basically the natural human state. We fear death, illness, we cannot stand loneliness and rejection, misery and abuse. Our hearts are closed and our relationships are superficial, we are selfish and full of falsehood. The way to cleanse all this is through deep understanding and total surrender, and this is within the reach of very few.

Ralston opts for lobotomy and it seems to work for him, and I suppose for some people too, but that is not true enlightenment, not even close.

[AION]

This guy is pushing out books like a mf. He is my fav after Wilber.

[LastThursday]

Ralston isn't wrong, suffering can be dropped. But he does say it in a very blasé nearly dismissive way; he's doing that for effect however, the effect being that you should consider it possible to do. Most folks wouldn't even consider that suffering can be stopped or lessened. 

What he doesn't cover is the detail on how to do it. How is it possible to stop doing anything, if you've never stopped doing it? How can you bootstrap yourself into non-suffering? In this way he's being disingenuous, because he's glossing over that bootstrapping process. In a sense you have to catch yourself in the act of doing, realise it, and then not do it. Even the act of noticing takes a lot of dedication and awareness, which most people don't start off with. It's very hard. And, physical pain and hunger is still physical pain and hunger, you can't stop it.

[Ishanga]

He's right, Suffering is a choice, Pain is real and will come then go, Suffering is ongoing pain, unless someone from outside is physically or mentally abusing You on a daily basis, then most of the ppl that suffer are self creating it, and its disabling to them!

[Zigzag Idiot]

I agree.

Here are some distinctions about suffering from the Fourth way. 

Four types of suffering

Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. 

The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance. 

The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death.

Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades.

And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering.

From an article on the second Conscious Shock 

https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_is_talk_ae2005.htm

[Zigzag Idiot]

One phenomena that I’ve observed that was pointed out to me from a Teacher years ago.- One of the most difficult things to let go of is unnecessary suffering!

People will cling to their suffering, such as complaining,,,, and just not let go.

To truly see the uselessness of complaining,,, Observing this is almost as comical as it is persistent which from another viewpoint makes it a sort of tragedy. 

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

One phenomena that I’ve observed that was pointed out to me from a Teacher years ago.- One of the most difficult things to let go of is unnecessary suffering!

People will cling to their suffering, such as complaining,,,, and just not let go.

To truly see the uselessness of complaining,,, Observing this is almost as comical as it is persistent which from another viewpoint makes it a sort of tragedy. 

My theory on this is that People want Intensity in their Lives, something that makes their hearts beat faster, and they feel "ALIVE", they will do most anything to have this feeling, so for most its much easier to produce Suffering in their lives than Bliss so they do that just to feel Alive, its crazy stupid but this is my take on it, its super Unconscious but a survival instinct of sorts, very low level of living life!!