Post Modernism Pt 2

[Terell Kirby]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Emotions are all about survival. The ego's survival.

Yes- my ego would never allow me to murder my parents in their sleep because I have strong positive emotions towards them. It's a bias, nothing objective.

Self preservation and the preservation of one's tribe is reinforced by my emotions. A mistake I've made in this work countless times is demonizing notions of 'ego' and 'survival' .. some aspects provide a foundation for living a healthy life, not all ideas of morality are bad from a function of pure pragmatism.

Edited January 31 by Terell Kirby

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Letho said:

Emotions, when properly understood and regulated, do not necessarily corrupt the mind, they aid in this alignment problem

Yes. I agree. There is a higher aspect to emotions.

However emotions are so tricky that they largely end up feeding self-deception and ego.

But yes, there is a higher aspect. Although even this higher aspect is used to create fantasy and self-deception. You can utterly fool yourself with high spiritual emotions. That's exactly what New Agers do.

Emotions are one of the biggest minefields in this work.

Edited January 31 by Leo Gura

[Letho]

@Leo Gura Again, the awareness thought experiment. There is no need to continue this discussion if we have mutual understanding there, including our movement in resolution of translating mere thought experiment to actioned empathic maturity.

[gambler]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes. I agree. There is a higher aspect to emotions.

However emotions are so tricky that they largely end up feeding self-deception and ego.

But yes, there is a higher aspect.

What about humiliation? Does that need to be transcended? Some people don’t feel humiliation if someone deep faked sexual AI images of their daughter (yes there are people out there who wouldn’t feel humiliated), but I’m guessing you’d say the daughter and the father have to transcend their ego and feelings of humiliation? 

Edited January 31 by gambler

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, gambler said:

What about humiliation? Does that need to be transcended?

You are allowed to feel whatever.

The point is just to be conscious of what your feelings are really doing to you and why they are happening, and to not let them distort your understanding.

Humiliation is a pretty rare emotion, so it's not going to have much impact on your sense-making. You should be more worried about other emotions, such as your sense of moral outrage -- that's gonna badly screw up your sense-making.

Anger, fear, hatred, love, lust, excitement, hurt, envy -- all these will trick you badly.

Edited January 31 by Leo Gura

[gambler]

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are allowed to feel whatever.

That’s a relief to hear. People like @Princess Arabia live in my head rent free with their preaching about how these feelings are all insignificant, resulting exclusively from our wacky thoughts. And that the body somehow doesn’t care about these feelings, or our thoughts on it, even though it gave us our human genome, so we should discard, or dare I say, repress these feelings. Curiously, would she keep that same energy and be fine [removed] as long as no serious injury remains on her body? Would she hold on to her seemingly transcendental understanding? If she was consistent she would. 

Edited January 31 by Leo Gura
Removed offensive phrasing.

[Letho]

@gambler and @Leo Gura

Think of emotions not merely as reactions, but as signposts in our personal development. Each emotion has the potential to either guide us toward deeper awareness and growth or lead us astray into self-deception and harm; a probabilistic 'distortion wheel' that once spun can peel off into a myriad of self-deceptive directions. This concept is deeply intertwined with the idea of moral or spiritual development, which has been symbolized in many religious traditions, including stated analogies, throughout history we have used metaphor and analogy inside and outside of the arts including poetry to pay homage to our religious learnings of our absolute truth that when poorly conceptualised, leave the readers to only their lesser sometimes obvious harmful understandings. While I’m not religious in the conventional sense, I do believe that these religious symbols point toward the profound truths behind emotional experiences, I'm not arrogant enough to conclude that there is zero parallel between my own innate capacity to self-originate religious structures from morality based on an inherent compass that falls outside the scope of mere 'personal bias' and the very real ingenuous solutions already offered to me by religious and philosophical authors that for now, I don't have the time to spend reflecting on all their thoughts beyond my own practical route of bioelectrical mastery.

Emotions like anger or fear can cloud judgment and pull us into negative cycles, however they're signals nonetheless, like the betrayal of a friend, we have the anger of the experience that is pointing us to its very real truth versus its spiral which can have weak evolutionary adaptations when its not weighted with the awareness to control it. While emotions like empathy or love have the potential to elevate our consciousness and lead us toward a more harmonious state of being, however again, without awareness they clearly make people more naive, gullible and non-discerning when those positive levers towards genuine absolute truth are not engineered by awareness to higher scaffoldings of life experience, understanding and life with others.

Understanding and differentiating between these emotions, has to be done very sensitively, you can't paint everything with a single brushstroke when any one of us are not yet complete experts on the relationship between energy and physicality, the manifestation of mind and heart and what we then go on to conceptualise as further overlaps into thought and emotion. The very core of it, energy, at the core of our sentient experience and the overlapping domains of that experience that come together to create it, is what we're talking about here, to whisk that off as having being understood simply because we either navigate flawed societal planes or negate societal constructs with ease while finding peace in our own mind, is to limit mastery to heights of the experiences we take great delight in reducing to their miniature perspectives. It's arrogance imprisons us from ever experiencing the truth due to our lack of freedom in imagination towards higher integration, while getting away with those carefully packaged arrogant insights as truths that beguile others because they mistake negation as truth. Negation is just one side, positivism in this case in the order of understanding what absolute morality is, which I've already explained, is the next. Thousands of hours needs to be spent on both, and both start at the practical side of where bioelectrical mastery meets societal integration and exploring the limits of the imaginary boundaries of both.

As for @Princess Arabia, she still has a lot to learn. Encourage all members with wisdom. We are all along the same path.

 

[Leo Gura]

@gambler Just apply awareness to your feelings and contemplate what your feelings are doing to you.

Suppression of feeling is a trap and I doubt that's what she told you to do.

Edited January 31 by Leo Gura

[gambler]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@gambler Just apply awareness to your feelings and contemplate what your feelings are doing to you.

Suppression of feeling is a trap and I doubt that's what she told you to do.

That’s not what she said. I’m saying the implication of what she is saying is that. 
 

If morality is just our wacky thoughts that hurt the body, well then, I guess feeling humiliated just hurts the body too, so might as well discard, or repress the feeling. 

Edited January 31 by gambler

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, gambler said:

If morality is just our wacky thoughts that hurt the body

I don't know why you call morality that.

Morality is your sense of right and wrong. But your sense of right and wrong are shaped by what you need to survive and what your social group needs to survive. Emotions play into your sense of right and wrong and are also biased to serve your survival and your group's survival.

So there is this layered sandwich of factors what all work together to serve your survival: emotions, thoughts, beliefs, cultural conditioning, right/wrong, self/other, biological instincts.

Edited January 31 by Leo Gura

[gambler]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't know why you call morality that.

“I bet your body doesn't care about these fancy terms that humans invented. Do you think the body cares about your moralities and who you sell it to, no it doesn't; only your wacky thoughts about it.” - @Princess Arabia

 

Edited January 31 by gambler

[Letho]

@gambler humiliation is a healthy emotion, all emotions are healthy what matters is the degrees of balance or imbalance in which they are felt. If there is a conflict with reality, then by that stretch, it is unhealthy, including too for any stimuli, phenomena, contexts or people that lead to that feeling. And interesting concerning @Princess Arabia, both her @Whitney Edwards and @Marcel sound a lot like @Preety_India that I haven't seen for a while.

For any emotion you have ever felt, write down all of its potential negative spirals to potential positive outcomes as an exercise in self-understanding the potential positive implications of the event. 'Negative emotions' operate analogous to the sensation of pain, it feels inherently 'bad' however it sends us a clear message, however imbalanced that message may be sometimes. To stop whatever we're doing. 

@Leo Gura "are shaped by what you need to survive and what your social group needs to survive", survival is just one level of morality, there is the moral order of the universe as one 'moral grounding', which is rooted in both the energy of 'thought' and 'emotion' beyond mere conceptual notions that entrench lower thinking into reductionistic models. 

 

[Adrian colby]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes. I agree. There is a higher aspect to emotions.

However emotions are so tricky that they largely end up feeding self-deception and ego.

But yes, there is a higher aspect. Although even this higher aspect is used to create fantasy and self-deception. You can utterly fool yourself with high spiritual emotions. That's exactly what New Agers do.

Emotions are one of the biggest minefields in this work.

I’ve found this to be the biggest problem in teaching and helping participants integrate after psychedelic ceremony.

no matter what they are opened up to, they always fall back into beleif and the ego reforms Co opting everything to their own benefit. 
 

I’ve found I’ve had no choice but to go right back to basics and council through emotional deconstruction back to the thought or perception that caused the emotion in the first place. This means I am no longer willing to teach advanced spirituality because the people I’m working with are so far behind it’s not worth the arguments and severe anger/ emotional outbursts and insults. It doesn’t help them or me. 🙄

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Adrian colby said:

it’s not worth the arguments and severe anger/ emotional outbursts and insults. It doesn’t help them or me. 🙄

Haha, I hear ya brother 

Tier 2 levels of development are so rare.

Edited January 31 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

On 1/26/2025 at 2:50 PM, gambler said:

I have a poor imagination, what is the relevance of the thumbnail?

I am imagining something juicy, but I will not go into further details as it is quite delicious and better left in my own imagination. 

[gambler]

19 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I am imagining something juicy, but I will not go into further details as it is quite delicious and better left in my own imagination. 

Welcome back, Yimpy. 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

14 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

On the Relativity of Nation States and Borders but at same time why and how they came to be. Is Relative because is Related to the Survival. 

 

 

[Princess Arabia]

11 hours ago, gambler said:

That’s not what she said. I’m saying the implication of what she is saying is that. 

Not good enough. Please quote verbatim what you're referring to and I'll address it then. Other than that, implications are just that, implications. Plus, i never said to suppress feelings and emotions. I would surely appreciate if one would address me directly when I say something that isn't agreed with instead of bringing my name up in another conversation indicating that they're opposed to something they believe I was implying. 

[Princess Arabia]

10 hours ago, Letho said:

@Princess Arabia, both her @Whitney Edwards and @Marcel sound a lot like @Preety_India that I haven't seen for a while.

I don't need to do that. I'm not offended by you saying this, but I'd just like to set the record straight, and I'll do this just once other than if admin asks, I have one account and always have. My profile picture is me which I change on occasion, and I've only gone by one name here, Princess Arabia. I have posted numerous pictures of myself here, as profile pics, in threads and also in journals. All with the same face. Ever since i've been a member here I've been consistent with my avatar pics and not once have I displayed a pic that wasn't who I was. If I sound like another member, that's only in your mind and not the reality. That's it. As far as admin and this situation goes, I'm pretty sure they're more adept at spotting these things and are well aware that I have shown no indications of being an impersonator. I don't blame you because people here have been known to do just that, so I'm not taking it personally, but I'm only setting the record straight and saying to you you're wrong about that.

 Now, you're entitled to feel how you want and think however you want to think, but I'd appreciate it if you not spread false information publicly about me and what you think about my forum account unless you're making a truthful claim and are sure about what you're saying on the matter. Thanks.

Edited January 31 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

12 hours ago, Letho said:

As for @Princess Arabia, she still has a lot to learn.

Yes, don't we all. For eternity.