Let's talk about alcohol

[TruthFreedom]

I hope this topic is appropriate for this section of the forum. 

Basically, I have had a moderate alcohol problem for the past seven years. For some periods of time it became severe. 

I have attended AA meetings and studied the subject endlessly, and things have improved, but alcohol is still having a detrimental affect on my life. I am often isolated without much human contact, and find that I get some brief relief from uncomfortable emotions when I have a drink. The problem is that I need human contact, and I usually facilitate that contact by drinking some alcohol first. This leads me to behaving in bizarre ways, having delusions and embarrassing myself, as well as offending people. The problem is that people don't always know I am under the influence, so they assume I am just weird or crazy. I often wake up and in my head I go through what happened last night. It's not usually something serious, but it's enough to make me cringe inside.

Like I say, I have improved my situation quite a lot, and I only have four cans of beer a day, and some days I have nothing. But when I am under the influence, I can forget about everything. It seems too difficult to give up this small pleasure.

Does anyone else have experience with recovering from alcohol? 

[AION]

For me micro dosing MDMA when going out is much better than drinking. It provides me being lose and the brain elasticity to just fuck around and enjoy the night.

I mean MDMA is still bad but I just pop a quarter pill and do it only once every two weeks. It is manageable.

I never had an alcohol problem. It felt never appealing to be shit faced. As you said you don’t make a good impression. I prefer to have 1-2 drinks at best to get tipsy if I feel the need to. 

[Leo Gura]

Eventually you will get sick of all the self-inflicted suffering and just go sober.

The only question is, How much suffering will it take you to bite the sober bullet?

Drinking is not needed to socialize.

Edited Sunday at 11:56 AM by Leo Gura

[Daniel Balan]

I don't drink because I realized that only red neck, highly uneducated, hooligans drink heavily. And I want to be as far away as possible from such individuals. 

[Hojo]

After awakening I realized that I was drinking to turn my mind off. I was so scared of having a quiet mind as I would have a panic attack about dying so I was subconsciously drinking to deal with the fear of death.While drinking I could focus on being drunk and while hungover I could focus on being sick.This fear has many impacts on the human mind that you can not be aware of. I used to drink like 18 beers every other day and now I am done and dont even want it for about a year now. Basically not drunk my mind was in a constant stress state of fear and drinking made it stop. I beleive its why alot of people drink.

It was a piddle out I didnt demonize it I just slowly stopped. I would say ask yourself why you think being drunk is better than your base state. You are secretly saying to yourself I need to get out of this state of mind so I need the alcohol. Also leaving friends that drink helps.

I have heard many people say they get bad anxiety after drinking and its because what they were running from is coming to the surface.

Edited Sunday at 03:26 PM by Hojo

[koops]

I had alcohol problems and went to AA also.

AA was so depressing (fight club style) that I had to walk away in the middle of the session. Young men in their 20s talking about prostituting themselves and robbing people to get some money for drugs and paying debts. I was shocked. I didn't want to belong there. It was a crude awakening. (I also had some REAL fucked up stories from my close friends involving alcohol).

Dont underestimate the problems alcohol is going to cause you mid-long term. It can get pretty wild quick, and you wont see it coming.

 

I mixed that negative motivation with positive motivation.

I came back to self-help and spirituality and started to watch, take notes and implement seriously Actualized.org

I bought Culasada's book and started meditation following his steps.

Tried 1 day solo retreats.

Started intermitting fasting

Tried cold shower (this just one month).

Did a 30 day digital detox (Digital Minimalism book).
 

And I was inspired by Leo, his self-actualization videos and the vision of being a sage (totally incompatible with drinking).

I created a lifelong vision, 5 year vision, 1 year, and started to chunk it down to seasonal goals.

 

You need to pick values, references (people you admire), and lifelong goals that are in antithesis to drinking.
And doing it in a way that reaches your lizard brain. This last part can be hard but you have to test, test and test until you get it.

You need to reach a point where you don't get why people drink.

It happens to me now. I go to dinner and see people drinking beer. I feel disgusted by it. I really feel bad for those people.
I want to be healthy, agile, wake up fresh, mentally sharp, emotionally estable, be able to meditate, to enjoy life with high level of mindfulness; but hey, they don't have a reason to not drink, so they drink, because is the default option) 
 

Also at that time, I stumbled open the movie 'Gandhi.' It was a shock. It made me realize my untapped potential. Made me realize deeply that life is not about bodily pleasures and just enjoying oneself. Is about purpose, passion, spirituality!

 

here is a good account you can follow for daily remaindere: https://www.instagram.com/jamesswanwick/

 

[LastThursday]

9 hours ago, TruthFreedom said:

I am often isolated without much human contact, and find that I get some brief relief from uncomfortable emotions when I have a drink.

At the bottom of a lot of addictions and depression is a lack of basic human needs being met.

It could be that the isolation is out of your control, but maybe it isn't and it just takes a lot of difficult work to get out of it. You probably know that drinking isn't fixing those basic needs. We do have other needs though, such as pleasure, so your drinking does meet that need. There's also a need to "step outside ourselves" now and then, and to have relief and a break from the hard stuff of being a person, and drinking also meets that need. I also enjoy drinking for exactly those reasons, I have never abused alcohol, but I drink far far less than I used to, maybe once or twice a month.

There are many other healthier pleasures in life to try. There are many ways to meet new people. If you think you can be disciplined, then try to clean up other areas of your life, the usual run of: regular exercise, cleaner diet, good sleep, some sort of mindfulness practice.

[Davino]

 

 

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, koops said:

I had alcohol problems and went to AA also.

AA was so depressing (fight club style) that I had to walk away in the middle of the session. Young men in their 20s talking about prostituting themselves and robbing people to get some money for drugs and paying debts. I was shocked. I didn't want to belong there. It was a crude awakening. (I also had some REAL fucked up stories from my close friends involving alcohol).

Dont underestimate the problems alcohol is going to cause you mid-long term. It can get pretty wild quick, and you wont see it coming.

 

I mixed that negative motivation with positive motivation.

I came back to self-help and spirituality and started to watch, take notes and implement seriously Actualized.org

I bought Culasada's book and started meditation following his steps.

Tried 1 day solo retreats.

Started intermitting fasting

Tried cold shower (this just one month).

Did a 30 day digital detox (Digital Minimalism book).
 

And I was inspired by Leo, his self-actualization videos and the vision of being a sage (totally incompatible with drinking).

I created a lifelong vision, 5 year vision, 1 year, and started to chunk it down to seasonal goals.

 

You need to pick values, references (people you admire), and lifelong goals that are in antithesis to drinking.
And doing it in a way that reaches your lizard brain. This last part can be hard but you have to test, test and test until you get it.

You need to reach a point where you don't get why people drink.

It happens to me now. I go to dinner and see people drinking beer. I feel disgusted by it. I really feel bad for those people.
I want to be healthy, agile, wake up fresh, mentally sharp, emotionally estable, be able to meditate, to enjoy life with high level of mindfulness; but hey, they don't have a reason to not drink, so they drink, because is the default option) 
 

Also at that time, I stumbled open the movie 'Gandhi.' It was a shock. It made me realize my untapped potential. Made me realize deeply that life is not about bodily pleasures and just enjoying oneself. Is about purpose, passion, spirituality!

 

here is a good account you can follow for daily remaindere: https://www.instagram.com/jamesswanwick/

 

All you did was transferred the addiction to another. One needs something to cope, to attach to and to use so foes the other. The mind is what's making the distinction to which one is better than the other. The fact that you look down upon and feel sorry for people who drink beer and are enjoying life VS you being attached to your rituals and being hooked on them while not being free to do what the hell you want without fear of anything doesn't make you any better than them. This is why I turn away from spirituality and just see life for what it is because spiritual people think they're any better than those who aren't.

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You need to reach a point where you don't get why people drink.

It happens to me now. I go to dinner and see people drinking beer. I feel disgusted by it. I really feel bad for those people.
I want to be healthy, agile, wake up fresh, mentally sharp, emotionally estable, be able to meditate, to enjoy life with high level of mindfulness; but hey, they don't have a reason to not drink, so they drink, because is the default option) 

You don't realize this but this right here is slavery. Mental slavery. Needing to be one way over another. It's not freedom to want anything and to want to be a particular way. It's even worse seeing others being and criticizing and feeling you're better off than them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should feel or be any other way, I'm just pointing out that there's nothing more special about you wanting these things because they are only of the mind and what it thinks will make for a special life over any one else's. There's no such thing but only in the delusional mind of the individual that thinks it's a separate being. I might even be the same way in some things differently than what you're describing but at least i won't pat myself on the back thinking I'm any better than a drug addict if I'm addicted to meditation or mindfulness or self actualizing. It's just different ways of coping with the feeling of separation. That's all both are. Don't kid yourself. 

Edited Sunday at 07:05 PM by Princess Arabia

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, koops said:

I had alcohol problems and went to AA also.

AA was so depressing (fight club style) that I had to walk away in the middle of the session. Young men in their 20s talking about prostituting themselves and robbing people to get some money for drugs and paying debts. I was shocked. I didn't want to belong there. It was a crude awakening. (I also had some REAL fucked up stories from my close friends involving alcohol).

Dont underestimate the problems alcohol is going to cause you mid-long term. It can get pretty wild quick, and you wont see it coming.

 

I mixed that negative motivation with positive motivation.

I came back to self-help and spirituality and started to watch, take notes and implement seriously Actualized.org

I bought Culasada's book and started meditation following his steps.

Tried 1 day solo retreats.

Started intermitting fasting

Tried cold shower (this just one month).

Did a 30 day digital detox (Digital Minimalism book).
 

And I was inspired by Leo, his self-actualization videos and the vision of being a sage (totally incompatible with drinking).

I created a lifelong vision, 5 year vision, 1 year, and started to chunk it down to seasonal goals.

 

You need to pick values, references (people you admire), and lifelong goals that are in antithesis to drinking.
And doing it in a way that reaches your lizard brain. This last part can be hard but you have to test, test and test until you get it.

You need to reach a point where you don't get why people drink.

It happens to me now. I go to dinner and see people drinking beer. I feel disgusted by it. I really feel bad for those people.
I want to be healthy, agile, wake up fresh, mentally sharp, emotionally estable, be able to meditate, to enjoy life with high level of mindfulness; but hey, they don't have a reason to not drink, so they drink, because is the default option) 
 

Also at that time, I stumbled open the movie 'Gandhi.' It was a shock. It made me realize my untapped potential. Made me realize deeply that life is not about bodily pleasures and just enjoying oneself. Is about purpose, passion, spirituality!

 

here is a good account you can follow for daily remaindere: https://www.instagram.com/jamesswanwick/

 

Great stuff.

[Terell Kirby]

I’ll be 3 years sober from alcohol next week. Best decision I made in my life. Wouldn’t be able to get all the juice from Actualized teachings without it.

[koops]

 

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

All you did was transferred the addiction to another. One needs something to cope, to attach to and to use so foes the other. The mind is what's making the distinction to which one is better than the other. The fact that you look down upon and feel sorry for people who drink beer and are enjoying life VS you being attached to your rituals and being hooked on them while not being free to do what the hell you want without fear of anything doesn't make you any better than them. This is why I turn away from spirituality and just see life for what it is because spiritual people think they're any better than those who aren't.

Which addiction? I live a pretty normal life now.

Of course Im making a distinction! How could I not? I have a mind, and it rates my life now higher than when I was drinking solo at home almost every day. Yes. Is a bias? Yes. Totally aware of that.

''people who drink beer and are enjoying life'' 
how do you know they are enjoying life?

''not being free to do what the hell you want''
I do what the hell I want. I chose to have some daily/weekly rituals which make me feel great. And I do them. Easy.

''spiritual people think they're any better than those who aren't''
I didn't say anywhere that Im better than anyone. You said that. Careful with your interpretations

 

[koops]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

You don't realize this but this right here is slavery. Mental slavery. Needing to be one way over another. It's not freedom to want anything and to want to be a particular way. It's even worse seeing others being and criticizing and feeling you're better off than them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should feel or be any other way, I'm just pointing out that there's nothing more special about you wanting these things because they are only of the mind and what it thinks will make for a special life over any one else's. There's no such thing but only in the delusional mind of the individual that thinks it's a separate being. I might even be the same way in some things differently than what you're describing but at least i won't pat myself on the back thinking I'm any better than a drug addict if I'm addicted to meditation or mindfulness or self actualizing. It's just different ways of coping with the feeling of separation. That's all both are. Don't kid yourself. 

You can reframe everything as slavery.

If you quit alcohol for 1 year, you are a slave of alcohol. Or with sugar.

After I went to AA, I didn't quit cold turkey. I still drank from time to time, and I even got drunk a few times having a great time.

Just the last 4 months I went to 0, since my gf and I decided to quit indefinitely.  

 

spiritual people think they're any better than those who aren't
Again, is not feeling better than. Is just being able to cut through the unconsciousness of drinking. When I see people drinking they remind me of my past self, and I feel grateful for being able to quit and live life on my terms.

 

''I'm any better than''
There you go again haha 

 

[Princess Arabia]

@koopsI knew you would get defensive but I stick by what I'm saying and you're entitled to do the same.

There's a difference between quitting what you think is bad for you and doing something else to make you feel better and putting others down for doing what they're doing and comparing it to your new found life and saying you feel sorry for them. 

That's the point I'm making and your comment was doing exactly what I stated. If I go to church now because I used to go to bars and live a ratchet lifestyle, it's only better for the person involved and their perception of how they view it. Saying I feel sorry for people that go to bars and drink and are destroying their lives because now I'm in the church is putting myself on a pedestal in comparison to them. You did that only with different content. Also it's not that you have biases, we all do, it's that you have put others down because of theirs. I'm not trying to put you down, I'm making you aware that no one thing is better than the other but how the individual sees it. So if I see my going to church better than going to a bar that's OK, but saying I feel sorry for those who go to bars is where the comparison comes in and shows you think you're in a better place than them and that your choice to change outweighs their decision to do what they choose.

[Princess Arabia]

@koopsThis is the problem with the terms conscious and unconscious and the human rating system. Just because people drink, it doesn't make them unconscious and you any more conscious because you don't. Actually, if you were conscious enough as you're inclined to think based on your statements, you'd recognize that there's no difference between anything and it's only the mind that makes these distinctions. 

It's fine to make distinctions in life; but when in the same breath we're speaking about whose unconscious and conscious, it's just empty statements. You doing what you're doing Spiritually will land you in the same place as those doing crack, or drinking booze everyday. The only difference is how you will feel throughout your life which is exactly what you're seeking - a feeling just like the addicts. Everyone is. Contents are different and how they go about it. Makes no difference in the end.

Edited Sunday at 11:50 PM by Princess Arabia

[koops]

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

@koopsI knew you would get defensive but I stick by what I'm saying and you're entitled to do the same.

There's a difference between quitting what you think is bad for you and doing something else to make you feel better and putting others down for doing what they're doing and comparing it to your new found life and saying you feel sorry for them. 

That's the point I'm making and your comment was doing exactly what I stated. If I go to church now because I used to go to bars and live a ratchet lifestyle, it's only better for the person involved and their perception of how they view it. Saying I feel sorry for people that go to bars and drink and are destroying their lives because now I'm in the church is putting myself on a pedestal in comparison to them. You did that only with different content. Also it's not that you have biases, we all do, it's that you have put others down because of theirs. I'm not trying to put you down, I'm making you aware that no one thing is better than the other but how the individual sees it. So if I see my going to church better than going to a bar that's OK, but saying I feel sorry for those who go to bars is where the comparison comes in and shows you think you're in a better place than them and that your choice to change outweighs their decision to do what they choose.

Of course I feel Im in a better position than them. I could be wrong, there is no way to measure that.

If I see a homeless guy, I feel bad for him. Or the guys in AA. I feel bad for them. I didn't want to be in that situation. So yes, I think Im in a way better situation now. That doesn't mean I think Im a better human being.

The same as watching Leos videos. I watch them and apply them beacuse I  want to improve my life and try to be in a better situation than I was before. The same with meditation, gym etc...

Comparison is inevitable. I also felt bad for myself, when I was lonely, broke and weak. Thats how things are.

 

their decision to do what they choose.

Free will aside... do they really chose that? Or is a default pattern (unconsciosness)? Or is an addiction? 

If thats the case, is not a choice. Is a trap.

Is @TruthFreedom, the guy asking here choosing to drink, or is he being trapped?
 

Is not that simple. Its a real struggle. Not drinking is a higher perspective/consciousness than drinking (specially when you want to quit and you cant)

 

[puporing]

It depends on your state. For me some alcohol act like a psychedelic. But I don't generally drink (alcohol) except for the purpose of raising my consciousness for a short period of time. I know that might sound "out there" for most people. I don't really advise this unless you are further into your journey and know what you are doing with it.

Edited Monday at 06:53 AM by puporing

[mmKay]

Sometimes hitting rock bottom is the solid foundation you need to rebuild your life, where the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change.

It would be wise not to have to resort to such extremes, but if you listen to recovery stories, you'll notice that people sometimes go through an inflection point that catalyzes their decision.

 

Why do you socially isolate yourself? How does drinking help you in socializing? What are the unpleasant emotions and thought patterns you distract yourself from by drinking?

[sholomar]

Good luck going sober. The earlier you start, the longer you do it, the harder it is to quit, because the more you do something, the more the neural connections in the brain are reinforced.  All addiction is basically addiction to the dopamine release from the activity in question, and all withdraw symptoms carry some of the same sorts of side effects. Angry, irritable, bored, anxious, etc.

I mean, when people feel like dogshit in life due to their circumstances, genetics, or brain chemistry, an escape feels good.... but it takes more and more to keep that sensation going, and then if you stop, the implosion begins.  Being able to cultivate an alpha brainwave state at will through being the "observer" or "open focus" is a better long term solution to the tortures of our evolutionary brain chemistry.

Edited Monday at 12:29 PM by sholomar