Deepseek - China’s New AI Breakthrough

[Davino]

5 hours ago, kray said:

Just if anyone is curious, the LLMs that these AGIs are trained on are made up of terabytes (many billions worth) of parameters, which are fed data. So technically the big data that is fed and used to train these models are actually data from humans. Training models with data from the internet requires constant up to date scraping of all the sources on the World Wide Web, which is why it’s very limited in terms of real time data. The reason I’m making this point is because while deepsink has raised the standards for efficient and reliable gen AI, it still works with the Chinese government, and the data that it trains its models on is deeply biased. Just food for thought 🤷🏽‍♂️

The revolution of Deepseek is not brought by the biased data and its current AI, but has been a breakthrough in its methodology and approach. Basically in these three points:

1. Pure reinforcement learning (contemplating from scratch against a challenge without human intervention)
2. Chain-of-thought reasoning (breaking down problems in logical and contextual steps instead of directly outputting an answer)
3. Optimized for cost-effectiveness (limited hardware but high performance)

DeepSeek R1 is the first AI to put these principles together. What biased data you feed into DeepSeek is not the stress point because it is the pioneer towards a new branch of Artificial Intelligence development, that's the key insight here to learn from this thread.

[Davino]

4 hours ago, Joshe said:

You can't really run their web-based model locally. Their online chatbot is presumably using their 671 billion parameter model, which is far outside the realm of feasibility to run locally. Even if you wanted to set it up on HuggingFace, it'd probably cost $20k/mo to run. The infrastructure needed to run the full model locally would likely cost 100k+ in hardware. 

Running their 7-billion parameter model is feasible, but 7 billion is a lot less than 671 billion...so I think the quality drop-off would send you back to ChatGPT and Claude real quick. 

There's no way to get around how much computing power is needed to run these models in their full glory. We'll have to wait on a major breakthrough for that. 

It's actually the other way arround. ChatGPT costs about 100k to run just on GPUs, while right now full DeepSeek R1 can be run with just 5k. It's literally twenty times cheaper, these chinese dudes

Btw, reducing parametres down is not a linear regresive performance process. A well optimzed AI can work fine with fewer parametres as LLaMA 7B has proved beyond any doubt.

Moreover, you understimate the direction this while movement is talking. Always remember this is the costliest it will ever be. Now we're incremeanting efficiency on the three principles I mentioned in my post above.

[AION]

I talked to a Chinese gf. They have so many projects. Damn if this keeps up China will be the next Dubai. Insane wealth is coming to China.

[OBEler]

Can someone explain why they put deep seek open source . And why do they share it for free outside of China.

Edited Tuesday at 10:13 AM by OBEler

[Thought Art]

@OBEler I think the main focus of the group who created it wants to help humanity over profit?

[OBEler]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@OBEler I think the main focus of the group who created it wants to help humanity over profit?

Sorry that sounds very naive. Every chinese company is controlled by the government. Do you also think the government has in mind to help humanity over profit?

[PenguinPablo]

41 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Can someone explain why they put deep seek open source . And why do they share it for free outside of China.

Well for starters disruption of American AI giants like Open AI. By making it free, it can lead to mass adoption which has been the case as this Chinese app rose to numero uno on the app stores. 
 

Literally they just completely shit on the American ai companies after trumps trillion dollar project  with his tech boyfriends announcement a week ago.
 

DeepSeek is playing the long game while Open AI is trying to make as much profit as possible as quickly as possible — even though supposedly OpenAI mission was to help humanity. 
 

Since it’s open source, this could also lead to bigger partnerships with variety of companies and institutions. Notice how Android OS dominates the global smartphone market by being open source. 
 

Fundamentally, it’s a different strategy… a more patient one focused on long term market dominance rather than quick profits.
 

American philosophy is more like Chess.  Attack attack attack and get the win! China is more like Go, slow, patient and gradual but total control of the landscape.
 

We will have to see how things play out.

Edited Tuesday at 10:53 AM by PenguinPablo

[Thought Art]

@OBEler From Wikipedia page on deepseek:

”DeepSeek is focused solely on research and has no detailed plans for commercialization;[18] this also allows its technology to avoid the most stringent provisions of China's A.I. regulations, such as requiring consumer-facing technology to comply with the government’s controls on information.[3]”

I can’t remember where I learned about the Hedgefunds goal of bettering humanity though. It was a video. 

Edited Tuesday at 10:59 AM by Thought Art

[PurpleTree]

 

[Thought Art]

On 2025-01-27 at 1:49 AM, Leo Gura said:

Be careful feeding or uploading any of your data to China.

This is why I haven’t used it.

[Davino]

35 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@OBEler From Wikipedia page on deepseek:

”DeepSeek is focused solely on research and has no detailed plans for commercialization;[18] this also allows its technology to avoid the most stringent provisions of China's A.I. regulations, such as requiring consumer-facing technology to comply with the government’s controls on information.[3]”

Oh, like OpenAI before it got corrupted, I see

[PenguinPablo]

Very interesting criticisms of open ai with George Hotz, the guy that originally jailbroke the iPhone. Sharp guy.

Edited Tuesday at 11:42 AM by PenguinPablo

[Davino]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

That was a surprisingly sober analysis coming from Trump. What you would expect from a sane president of a country.

[OBEler]

36 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@OBEler From Wikipedia page on deepseek:

”DeepSeek is focused solely on research and has no detailed plans for commercialization;[18] this also allows its technology to avoid the most stringent provisions of China's A.I. regulations, such as requiring consumer-facing technology to comply with the government’s controls on information.[3]”

I can’t remember where I learned about the Hedgefunds goal of bettering humanity though. It was a video. 

Don't believe blindly what you read on Wikipedia or any page. Do you really think that when a company claims they release a product to help humanity that this must be then their intentions because it is written somewhere?

[UnbornTao]

Quote

- Is Taiwan a country?

- Taiwan is an inalienable part of China, and the Chinese government adheres to the One-China principle, which is widely recognized by the international community. The compatriots in Taiwan are our brothers and sisters, and we are committed to the great cause of peaceful reunification. Any attempts to split the country are doomed to fail.

Just an example.

Edited Tuesday at 01:56 PM by UnbornTao

[Thought Art]

@OBEler I don’t know man. I’m open to different views. I’ll never use deepseek because I don’t trust its source. I don’t know the intentions of deepseek and I’m cautious. 
 

For all I know deepseek is a Chinese propaganda/ surveillance technology I don’t know. That’s why I won’t use it. 
 

But, it’s apparently free and open source. It’s interesting and should be interesting to follow developments regarding it. You may ask me why believe Wikipedia…. But, why not also? Deepseek is free and open source which aligns with what is currently written on Wikipedia. No face technology is needed. Free and open source projects can help a lot of people. Of course, things are always subject to change. 
 

Do you have any evidence to the contrary that the original Intent of the project of this open source AI which is free is for another purpose than to help people? How can a free AI make money? I’d love to learn more.
 
Ah, they sell access to the API.

Given the AI’s origin it makes sense it would have certain blind posts, limitations and biases to adhere to Chinese government policy around certain topics. I wouldn’t demonize it but use discernment. Personally, I’m happy with ChatGPT and not interested in other AI right now. Deepseek is interesting, may be completely safe and useful. But, also just isn’t worth the risk and hype for me.
 

The most powerful AI being free could and may be helping a lot of people as we speak…. 

Edited Tuesday at 12:14 PM by Thought Art

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Just an example. Be mindful of the bias and propaganda. Unfortunately, politics is an important factor to consider, and it likely influences various other subjects. 

Ask her about Winnie Pooh and Xi Ping Ping? 💜

Edited Tuesday at 11:53 AM by PurpleTree

[zazen]

There’s a subtle distinction that can help understand how China operates.

They aren’t a centrally planned state like prior communist states - they centrally direct. They don’t control businesses as much as they do direct them and then check the excesses gained from it.

Politically centralised, economically decentralised - that political centralisation allows them to check excesses - something Russia hasn’t don’t well.

In other words: China is centrally directed and actively checks the excesses of the gains made from central direction, ensuring that wealth is reinvested into national development and benefits a broader population. In contrast, Russia is centrally directed but fails to check those gains, allowing them to concentrate in oligarchic hands, leading to major inequalities and a lack of widespread development.

 

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

Sorry that sounds very naive. Every chinese company is controlled by the government. Do you also think the government has in mind to help humanity over profit?

No, not every Chinese company is controlled by the government.

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

No, not every Chinese company is controlled by the government.

Remember how Jack Ma disappeared for a while?