Deepseek - China’s New AI Breakthrough

[PurpleTree]

 

 

[OBEler]

Many Chinese people are so highly intelligent compared to the west, how can the west in the future compete where intelligence is more and more important. This is just an example out of thousands.

[hoodrow trillson]

Just now, OBEler said:

Many Chinese people are so highly intelligent compared to the west, how can the west in the future compete where intelligence is more and more important. This is just an example out of thousands.

They also have no originality.  That’s a massive flaw that intelligence cannot trump.  No intellectual property laws means no innovation only copying.  

[Davino]

@Leo Gura I was aware of Deepseek for some time but I never framed it from a censorship angle. It really is a challenge with immense repercussions.

[Pox]

15 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Many Chinese people are so highly intelligent compared to the west, how can the west in the future compete where intelligence is more and more important. This is just an example out of thousands.

Intelligent? In terms of what? Stem education sure, but how many percent of Chinese people know how their government is manipulating them? How many films do they have that can be deemed as high art? They have a government that blames all economic problems to “foreign influences”, they have an education system that is teaching them toxic nationalism, they have a government that censors social unrest occurrences, mass killings, anything that they think is a risk to “social stability” hell even people holding up a white piece of paper will be “dealt with”. You don’t know how unstable the place is right now. And also I’m Chinese so I have plenty of first and second hand experiences.

[Davino]

15 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

They also have no originality.  That’s a massive flaw that intelligence cannot trump.  No intellectual property laws means no innovation only copying.  

China's economic model has been deviating from copying for more than two decades. You really think people at Huawei are not bringing in immense innovation?

I worked one week with them and these Chinese are crazy good. Even their cities are so much more advanced than Europe. The problem of China doesn't come from intelligence or innovation, it comes from an authoritarian regime and governamental restriccions on development and freedom.

And yes obviously China respects intelectual property and is part of international agreements to abide by it.

 

[Pox]

please research the Chinese history that Chinese people in china dont know the existence of, and see how when a nation endures unimaginable suffering, like China during the 1900s, its current state is a reflection of collective and individual trauma, and how it's born of survival, shaped by the biases and traumas of the human mind.

Edited Tuesday at 12:18 AM by Pox

[Pox]

from chat gpt

I. External Trauma: The "Century of Humiliation" (1840–1949)

What to Discuss: How foreign invasions, imperialism, civil wars, and famine broke China’s societal fabric and fostered a collective obsession with survival, unity, and reclaiming power.

Why It Matters: This is the root of the country’s obsession with sovereignty, nationalism, and distrust of external forces. Trauma gave rise to a survival-based ideology—communism—that promised order and equality but was implemented under extreme conditions.

Key Focus:

The Opium Wars, unequal treaties, and the loss of sovereignty.

The fall of the Qing Dynasty and internal fragmentation (warlord era).

The Japanese invasion, Nanjing Massacre, and WWII’s lasting scars.

II. The Birth of Communist China: Ideology Rooted in Trauma (1949–1976)

What to Discuss: How Mao Zedong’s leadership and Marxist-Leninist ideology reflected the need for survival and unity at any cost. The macro-level systems (e.g., the command economy, collectivization) mirrored these survivalist ideals but often led to catastrophe.

Why It Matters: This period shaped the CCP’s authoritarianism, disdain for dissent, and its belief in controlling every aspect of life to ensure stability.

Key Focus:

The Great Leap Forward: How Mao’s vision was shaped by his psychology (idealism, paranoia, and survival instincts) and how it caused mass famine.

The Cultural Revolution: A reaction to Mao’s fear of losing power, reflecting deep insecurities born from his childhood and political struggles.

The cult of personality around Mao: The psychological need for people to project hope onto a single leader after decades of despair.

III. Reform and Opening: Post-Mao Adaptation (1976–1989)

What to Discuss: How Deng Xiaoping’s pragmatism moved China away from ideological rigidity and toward economic modernization. Trauma still influenced the CCP’s authoritarian governance, but the shift reflected an adaptation to new survival needs.

Why It Matters: This period shows how ideologies evolve to meet changing environments, as you noted. Economic survival replaced ideological purity.

Key Focus:

The shift from collectivism to controlled capitalism.

How the Tiananmen Square Massacre reveals the CCP’s fear of instability, rooted in historical trauma.

IV. Contemporary China: Xi Jinping’s Era (2012–2025)

What to Discuss: Xi Jinping’s rise reflects both his personal psychology (rooted in his experiences during the Cultural Revolution) and the CCP’s collective obsession with maintaining control. Technology has become a new tool for survival-based governance.

Why It Matters: Xi’s leadership represents the modern incarnation of trauma-driven ideology, combining nationalism, authoritarianism, and technocracy.

Key Focus:

Xi’s personal history: His father’s political downfall, his "sent-down youth" experience during the Cultural Revolution, and how this shaped his worldview.

Modern surveillance and social credit systems: Tools for maintaining unity and control, reflecting fear of instability.

China’s foreign policy: The Belt and Road Initiative and "wolf warrior diplomacy" as expressions of reclaiming lost sovereignty.

V. Micro-Level Exploration: Leaders and Citizens

Mao Zedong: His childhood, rise to power, and psychological profile (e.g., his idealism, paranoia, and megalomania).

Xi Jinping: His formative experiences, political strategy, and psychology as a “prince” who lived through hardship and learned to navigate an authoritarian system.

Citizens: How collective trauma and survival instincts have shaped societal values like filial piety, nationalism, and conformity. The interplay of fear, hope, and pragmatism in modern Chinese society.

VI. Meta Analysis: Ideology’s Evolution

What to Discuss: The broader philosophical insight that ideologies must adapt to survive. Analyze how the CCP has modified Marxism-Leninism for its survival and how that evolution mirrors human psychological dynamics.

[Raze]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful feeding or uploading any of your data to China.

You can run it without an internet connection.

 

[OBEler]

@Pox I mean intelligence in terms of IQ. For sure they are not intelligent in all fields of intelligence. 

 

[Pox]

Just now, OBEler said:

@Pox I mean intelligence in terms of IQ. For sure they are not intelligent in all fields of intelligence. 

 

I agree that Chinese ppl are better than us at stem education. when I came from china to the u.s as a kid, the math taught here was leagues behind.

[Pox]

watch victor gao, watch what he's like

[Leo Gura]

What's interesting about these chatbots is that they seem to not offer much monopoly potential. There's no "secret sauce" or brand to them to justify buidling a trillion dollar company. They are too generic, AI as a commodity.

The truly profitable AI will need to be much more specialized than a chatbot and more integrated with special hardware or special software. The real profits are probably more in stuff like robotics.

Edited Tuesday at 12:53 AM by Leo Gura

[Eskilon]

52 minutes ago, Davino said:

so much more advanced than Europe

for real, i've been noticing this too in some videos. In main cities and stuff, their infrastructure is decades ahead of Usa and the west.

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:05 AM by Eskilon

[Pox]

1 minute ago, Eskilon said:

for real, i've been noticing this too in some videos. In main cities and stuff, their infrastructure is decades ahead of Usa and the west.

 

you guys are hilarious, this guy works for Chinese propaganda, and it's obvious... this is sad to see, how much it's actually working...

[Pox]

https://x.com/whyyoutouzhele

 

this guy posts news about china everyday, shows how much social unrest there is in china that china hides

Edited Tuesday at 01:25 AM by Pox

[The Crocodile]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The truly profitable AI will need to be much more specialized than a chatbot and more integrated with special hardware or special software. The real profits are probably more in stuff like robotics.

My dad got a patent.

He's the first one making a talking AI teddy bear.

And the patent is crazy in how much stuff it will cover, so if it gets approved he will be very rich.

[Jayson G]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What's interesting about these chatbots is that they seem to not offer much monopoly potential. There's no "secret sauce" or brand to them to justify buidling a trillion dollar company. They are too generic, AI as a commodity.

The truly profitable AI will need to be much more specialized than a chatbot and more integrated with special hardware or special software. The real profits are probably more in stuff like robotics.

@Leo Gura the real profits is more in the OpenAI API than the chatbots. The flow of data. For ex. with actualized.org you can use an AI classifier to pass the posts made on the forum through a classifier to see if either it meets the requirements of a post you find is acceptable, or to reject it if it is not meeting actualized guidelines. That's just one use case, but that is the same as the chatbot type data, but just used in creative ways. There's not much value specifically in AI chatbots for companies (except the huge companies). Then secondly, there's value in chatbots when agents become a real thing. Like OpenAI just released their new agent Operator, which is a form of a chatbot (takes screenshots consistently, chats, and has custom actions) and these just started, but agents is where its really at. 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Jayson G said:

but agents is where its really at. 

But those can probably be easily cloned.

What prevents anyone from just cloning any AI? That's the issue.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

But those can probably be easily cloned.

What prevents anyone from just cloning any AI? That's the issue.

Because they need to pay for the energy and server space to operate it