Predeterminism and free will

[Giulia_22]

What do you think of the concept of predeterminism and free will?

What I think I've understood is that free will is actually an illusion. So far it seemed to me that everything that happened in my life and the choices I made (even those that I judged for example) happened to bring me to a greater level of awareness, and I think that everything that happens in the surrounding reality happens for the same reason and it couldn't go any other way. Every event that happened had no way of taking a different direction. For example, events that we judge or that we consider "negative" (wars, violence, some diseases, etc.) may occur as an example to demonstrate what more "conscious" choices could be made to have different consequences; or for example other events  that create traumas and suffering will bring to a greater awareness because in that suffering we look for answers, we dig into ourselves, we heal ecc. Also when we judge people for the way they are it's quite nonsense because they couldn't be different, the actually don't have the free will to be different based on the unconscious patterns they have and  the sum past experiences that brought them where they are.

It seems to me that everything is predetermined towards a single direction, that of an inevitable higher awareness, like if anyone's choice has already been "made" to go in this direction. This is what I believe based on my experience, but I could be wrong.

Do you think that everything is predetermined or not?

In my opinion, this predeterminism is not limited only to the big choices and actions we make, but also to the smaller and more banal ones (such as choosing whether I will eat a banana or an apple). However, I'm not so sure about this last thing and I would like to try to understand better.

[TruthFreedom]

The Truth is that it cannot be proven either way. You cannot say that free will does exist or doesn't exist. 

I have come to the conclusion that it could be possible for free will and determinism to both exist at the same time.

We are not robots. Why would we have a conscience and feel regret or guilt if determinism was absolutely true? 

We have choices and you have the ability to choose whether to renounce your free will and be in alignment with God's will, or live selfishly instead.

Edited Saturday at 11:37 AM by TruthFreedom

[Giulia_22]

@TruthFreedom I think that if someone lives selfishly in this lifetime, even that in some way it's God's will. There are some people who will live unconsciously for the rest of their life and they couldn't be different, even if you show them all the information to expand their awareness they won't understand.

Edited Saturday at 12:26 PM by Giulia_22

[Someone here]

@Giulia_22 oh girl ..the free will topic is one hell of a obsession for me ..everything you said in your OP is correct.

Here's the thing to understand to resolve this free will issue once and for all ...Who is this "you" that has free will or has no free will?.. If it's nonexistent then there is no question left.    Now don't get this wrong.. Obviously you appear to be a this body or somehow an entity inside this body looking at the world.  And this will continue to be the apparent experience.   But it's not actually the case. 

I don't like abstract theoretical approach.. Especially to this question of free will so I will give you a scientific experiment to arrive at the bottom of this question

it took me a long time to get in terms with it.   You can practically figure out the defentive answer to the free will question.. once and for all.   Just sit down and try to completely still your body .that means no thoughts ..no actions.. no internal or external movements.etc you will quickly discover that you can't.  The body will do something automatically. A thought will arise..A feeling.. A movement.. A tingle..A blink..A breath.  Etc.   That's it.the body is just running automatically. There is no separate agency creating this. 

And your point about judging others being futile or whether we should or not take responsibility or to not take responsibility...To Believe in free will or to Believe in determinism...That assumes these two choices are exceptional from the free will dillema at hand. As if you can't choose anything except that you can choose whether you believe in choice or not 😂...

Anyways just sharing my thoughts on the topic. Because I'm super interested in it as well. 

[r0ckyreed]

Free will isn’t an illusion. There an infinite possibilities and choices within finite limitations.

[gettoefl]

Everything has the same value.

Whether I kill you or kiss you, it's the same.

So it seems I have free will but I am always doing the same thing.

Nothing.

Question needed is, who is doing this nothing.

Me or awareness.

That's the only free choice in this realm.

In heaven, there is free will since God doesn't create machines.

We are even allowed to vacation from heaven.

During this vacation however you are a mindless self-serving machine doing your best to try to be an immortal god.

If you find that is possible, congratulations you are the first person to achieve the impossible.

Edited Saturday at 04:03 PM by gettoefl

[Whitney Edwards]

There is free will. It's just that certain factors are predetermined. 

[Vibroverse]

6 hours ago, Giulia_22 said:

What do you think of the concept of predeterminism and free will?

What I think I've understood is that free will is actually an illusion. So far it seemed to me that everything that happened in my life and the choices I made (even those that I judged for example) happened to bring me to a greater level of awareness, and I think that everything that happens in the surrounding reality happens for the same reason and it couldn't go any other way. Every event that happened had no way of taking a different direction. For example, events that we judge or that we consider "negative" (wars, violence, some diseases, etc.) may occur as an example to demonstrate what more "conscious" choices could be made to have different consequences; or for example other events  that create traumas and suffering will bring to a greater awareness because in that suffering we look for answers, we dig into ourselves, we heal ecc. Also when we judge people for the way they are it's quite nonsense because they couldn't be different, the actually don't have the free will to be different based on the unconscious patterns they have and  the sum past experiences that brought them where they are.

It seems to me that everything is predetermined towards a single direction, that of an inevitable higher awareness, like if anyone's choice has already been "made" to go in this direction. This is what I believe based on my experience, but I could be wrong.

Do you think that everything is predetermined or not?

In my opinion, this predeterminism is not limited only to the big choices and actions we make, but also to the smaller and more banal ones (such as choosing whether I will eat a banana or an apple). However, I'm not so sure about this last thing and I would like to try to understand better.

They asked a philosopher if he believed he had free will. He responded "of course i do, i have no choice". 

 

[creativepursuit]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

Everything has the same value.

Whether I kill you or kiss you, it's the same.

Sounds like Void, Not Love

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, creativepursuit said:

Sounds like Void, Not Love

There wasn't ever love here.

Until one opted out of ego.

Love in fact is the death of ego.

Now I am for everyone not just for me.

Because I know all I meet are me.

[Breakingthewall]

It seems that reality flows like a kaleidoscope and evolves towards greater complexity and consciousness, but each movement has to be coordinated with infinity, everything has an infinite butterfly effect, so if you have free will but at the same time you don't, that is, you as a part advance but you are limited and pushed by infinite dimensions, so your margin of decision could be said to be zero, but at the same time, you are an evolutionary push, each breath, thought or gesture is reality expanding.

[Hojo]

You get to make up what you are doing and what has happened and what is happening. You dont get to decide where you are but you can decide how you got there. That could be a way for both to exist.

Edited Saturday at 09:16 PM by Hojo

[Atb210201]

There is free will.

There is also determinism.

None would mean anything without the other.

[LastThursday]

22 hours ago, Giulia_22 said:

What do you think of the concept of predeterminism and free will?

It's an impossible question to answer, because the future hasn't happened yet.

[Jirh]

23 hours ago, Giulia_22 said:

free will is actually an illusion.

This is correct, but do you actually grasp the depth of what it means?

[Giulia_22]

@Jirh I'm sure I am not grasping it totally, maybe I am understanding it just at a surface level

What I can say is that I'm not seeing this no free will concept with a victim mentality but with acceptance and inner knowing that everything will unfold as it should

[gettoefl]

I can't change what I see; I can change how I see.

When I see guilt, it is because the guilt in me found resonance outside me. I can forgive myself and become guiltless. Now I will never see guilt again.

Same for anything.

This is how you save the world.

The world is unchangeable and pre-determined; the sun will rise in the sky no matter what.

How I see it then is how I wake up.

Or I have free will forever to stay asleep and enjoy the show.

[Ishanga]

As Some have said, there is both, Karma or Memory/Conditioning coming up and influencing Your NOW moment is present for sure Deterministic, its all over Your Body and Mind, the too most important tools You have, but we are not the Body/Mind, both are accumulated, so anything accumulated is not You and is Karma or Deterministic in nature, but what is You is not.  Now this filters down to the Human Practical arena easily, You are choosing all the time every moment, but most of it is Unconscious to You, so this is Determination happening, but what You can do Unconsciously, You can do Consciously, so even the most basic aspect of Your Bodily Function, how Your heart beats, breath, stomach/digestive functions, etc,, all the way up to the most complex things Your Mind and Spirit can do, even after body death and finding another body to inhabit, can be done Consciously and via Choice.

This is what it means to be Human, if You disbelieve this that is a choice, if You believe this that is a choice, if You argue against it that is a choice, if You argue for it that is a choice, so choice is everywhere at every moment so that is Free Will.. The most basic choice is How You Experience Life Right Now, Joyfully or Miserably, make the choice and see How Life opens up for You!

Edited Sunday at 01:07 PM by Ishanga

[Jirh]

2 hours ago, Giulia_22 said:

@Jirh I'm sure I am not grasping it totally, maybe I am understanding it just at a surface level

What I can say is that I'm not seeing this no free will concept with a victim mentality but with acceptance and inner knowing that everything will unfold as it should

Sounds like you're on the right track. Very good!

For me the key was in understanding what the word illusion actually means.

The first time you worded it correctly, free will is an illusion, which is not the same as saying there is no free will. There is a subtle, yet very important difference there.

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Sounds like you're on the right track. Very good!

For me the key was in understanding what the word illusion actually means.

The first time you worded it correctly, free will is an illusion, which is not the same as saying there is no free will. There is a subtle, yet very important difference there.

Maya or Illusion means something/things exist but not as You Perceive them to be at this moment.. Illusion does not mean something does not exist, everything exists, but its not what You think it is... The person walking by You with a Happy Smile on their face, looking happy but is suffering inside, that is illusion, they exist, but not as they appear to be...

Free Will exists as a Potential, its not accessed mostly by most ppl, but it exists, so its an Illusion to those that are Unconscious in nature, they don't know it exists, what You do not Perceive does not Exist in Your Experience, until You Perceive it, then it does Exist, so Determination Exists, as well as Free Wil..Awarenesss is just another level of Intelligence coming into Your Perception, once You have it, then You can Access other dimensions and capabilities of what it means to be Human...