Ex-Zionist becomes ENLIGHTENED after realizing Zionism is a lie

[Twentyfirst]

4 minutes ago, Topspin715 said:

Nation states and national identities are mere social constructs that have evolved for the purposes of group survival

If Israel is a lie then Palestine is definitely a lie and America is a lie and Russia is a lie etc

Yup. Thats what he says in the video. Both Israel and Palestine are just identities in illusion of the ego

Plus if you are on this forum that is a filter that you should already know this or else why would you be on this forum at all

But when playing the illusory game we should still make sure to be fair to prevent suffering. Your mom is an illusion that doesn't mean you should smash her head against a brick wall

Edited Saturday at 07:43 PM by Twentyfirst

[Lila9]

1 minute ago, Twentyfirst said:

Well did you know that most Hamas members are orphans from IDF massacres? And they are also under constant threat? And they have no hope because all they see is more promises of further violence from the IDF? And they have no outside support?

Most orphans in the world don’t commit mass killings. They simply continue their lives as best as they can. And heal. There must be some ideological factor involved.

As a leader in Gaza, I can be very corrupt and make the living conditions of my people terrible. All the money and international support they receive, I can hoard and keep within my family, who enjoy a luxurious life, security, and freedom, while I convince the citizens that their economic situation is dire because of something external like Jews or Zionism who did them this and that which they must sacrifice their lives to fight against. And that they will be rewarded if they die (religious belief).

From an external perspective, people might say: “Look, Palestinians are so oppressed by Israel that they have no choice but to commit terror attacks! Their situation must be so bad! How can we help them? Let’s donate money.”

Or when Israel attacks as it did as a response to Oct 7. People legitimately concerned about the Palestinians and donate money, there are many organizations.

But that money, of course, goes to the leaders, who become richer while the Palestinian people grow poorer, more broken, and more traumatized and more radicalized. While the leaders, instead of promoting healing they buy more weapons. And the cycle continues.

If I were a Palestinian leader, whether we win and occupy the entire land or lose and are left with nothing, it wouldn’t matter because I win in both cases. Even if I were to die, that would still be a win because I would be seen as a martyr and my family will receive even more respect from the Palestinian citizens, I would be seen as an hero and it will inspire the younger Palestinian generations to be martyr, continuing the cycle. 

This is an endless cycle.  
I don’t say that Israel has no responsibility in the conflict, I just describe the part to which the Palestinian authorities are responsible for. 
 

 

[Twentyfirst]

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Most orphans in the world don’t commit mass killings. They simply continue their lives as best as they can. And heal. There must be some ideological factor involved.

Nobody wants to live in the shithole prison that your leaders created for them! Nobody wants to leave their indigenous land. Look at how hard it is for you to leave the land and your ancestors aren't even from there

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

As a leader in Gaza, I can be very corrupt and make the living conditions of my people terrible. All the money and international support they receive, I can hoard and keep within my family, who enjoy a luxurious life, security, and freedom, while I convince the citizens that their economic situation is dire because of something external like Jews or Zionism who did them this and that which they must sacrifice their lives to fight against. And that they will be rewarded if they die (religious belief).

This is a far out conspiracy theory that doesn't belong on this thread

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

From an external perspective, people might say: “Look, Palestinians are so oppressed by Israel that they have no choice but to commit terror attacks! Their situation must be so bad! How can we help them? Let’s donate money.”

The leaders can make money by doing what any normal politician does. Using their state to be corrupt and funnel money into their pockets. They don't have to do in times of war of getting a state

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Or when Israel attacks as it did as a response to Oct 7. People legitimately concerned about the Palestinians and donate money, there are many organizations.

There were Jews in America going to high income businesses asking for money after the attacks. Projection much?

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

But that money, of course, goes to the leaders, who become richer while the Palestinian people grow poorer, more broken, and more traumatized and more radicalized. While the leaders, instead of promoting healing they buy more weapons. And the cycle continues.

So Palestinians deserve whats happening to them? I don't understand you. Palestinians were fine before Zionism came

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

If I were a Palestinian leader, whether we win and occupy the entire land or lose and are left with nothing, it wouldn’t matter because I win in both cases. Even if I were to die, that would still be a win because I would be seen as a martyr and my family will receive even more respect from the Palestinian citizens, I would be seen as an hero and it will inspire the younger Palestinian generations to be martyr, continuing the cycle. 

Thanks for exposing YOUR thought process

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

This is an endless cycle.  
I don’t say that Israel has no responsibility in the conflict, I just describe the part to which the Palestinian authorities are responsible for. 
 

I understand Palestinians have poor leadership. But you are taking it way too fucking far. I don't think you have studied extensively enough how deep Zionism evil goes, how bad their intentions are, and how long back it goes. Hell even Napoleon was talking about ethnically cleansing Jews from europe to Palestine

Are you Zionist, Israeli, Jewish, or a specific combination of the three?

[Lila9]

3 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Nobody wants to live in the shithole prison that your leaders created for them! Nobody wants to leave their indigenous land. Look at how hard it is for you to leave the land and your ancestors aren't even from there

This is a far out conspiracy theory that doesn't belong on this thread

The leaders can make money by doing what any normal politician does. Using their state to be corrupt and funnel money into their pockets. They don't have to do in times of war of getting a state

There were Jews in America going to high income businesses asking for money after the attacks. Projection much?

So Palestinians deserve whats happening to them? I don't understand you. Palestinians were fine before Zionism came

Thanks for exposing YOUR thought process

I understand Palestinians have poor leadership. But you are taking it way too fucking far. I don't think you have studied extensively enough how deep Zionism evil goes, how bad their intentions are, and how long back it goes. Hell even Napoleon was talking about ethnically cleansing Jews from europe to Palestine

Are you Zionist, Israeli, Jewish, or a specific combination of the three?

If you want to defend the Palestinian leadership, then defend them. My point is not that Palestinians deserve what is happening to them but to show how they are manipulated and exploited by their leadership. 

Their leaders basically can do ANYTHING hurtful to the Palestinian civilians excusing it by external forces, such as the West, Jews, Zionism etc.

It also happens in Israel, with Bibi and the right wing but the difference is that we have some sort of democracy, pluralism and opposition, still. 

 

 

[Lila9]

52 minutes ago, Topspin715 said:

Nation states and national identities are mere social constructs that have evolved for the purposes of group survival

If Israel is a lie then Palestine is definitely a lie and America is a lie and Russia is a lie etc

👍

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

If you want to defend the Palestinian leadership, then defend them. My point is not that Palestinians deserve what is happening to them but to show how they are manipulated and exploited by their leadership. 

Their leaders basically can do ANYTHING hurtful to the Palestinian civilians excusing it by external forces, such as the West, Jews, Zionism etc.

It also happens in Israel, with Bibi and the right wing but the difference is that we have some sort of democracy, pluralism and opposition, still. 

 

 

Im sorry but there is no comparison between Zionist leaders and Palestinian leaders EVEN IF they both have propaganda. Thats a very simplistic childish view 

Palestinians don't need to be manipulated. They see the damage firsthand for a century. They lose family members. They starve. They are trapped. They are killed and raped. They are stolen from. They are ignored. They hear it from their grandparents, uncles, siblings, neighbors. They see IDF soldiers and tanks from when they are young children all the way until they are old without ever seeing a pause. They live in homes and streets that are in complete ruins with no water. Nobody needs to manipulate them. The Zionists are such scumbags that they do their own marketing 

The purpose of this thread is something else. Argue in another one. Im done talking to you because you are not coming from a place of good faith in discussing 

Edited Saturday at 08:31 PM by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

@Nivsch  In spirit of this awakening thread. What do you feel that is missing from others being able to understand the Israeli situation that they may not already have been told?

@Lila9 Sorry to end the last conversation. What is it from the Israeli perspective that you would like others to understand that they may not already understand and how else could perspectives be bridged? 

 

 

[Twentyfirst]

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Edited Saturday at 10:30 PM by Twentyfirst

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Edited Saturday at 11:57 PM by Twentyfirst

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[Topspin715]

8 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Yup. Thats what he says in the video. Both Israel and Palestine are just identities in illusion of the ego

Plus if you are on this forum that is a filter that you should already know this or else why would you be on this forum at all

But when playing the illusory game we should still make sure to be fair to prevent suffering. Your mom is an illusion that doesn't mean you should smash her head against a brick wall

This is gibberish