Ex-Zionist becomes ENLIGHTENED after realizing Zionism is a lie

[Twentyfirst]

Never knew about this man.

Rich Forer is a Jewish man born in 1948 in New Jersey and was a lifelong supporter of the state of Israel and Zionist ideology. Until he read a zionist expose and he had an enlightenment experience that turned him into an activist and author. He has two books "Wake Up and Reclaim Your Humanity: Essays on the Tragedy of Israel-Palestine" and "Breakthrough: Transforming Fear Into Compassion - A New Perspective on the Israel-Palestine Conflict".

Edit: I am not claiming that realizing zionism is a lie directly lead to awakening. Awakening just happens. In this case it happened after he realized it was a lie

 

The root of all conflict 

 

 

Longer explanation of the root of all conflict. Skip to 19:46 to 27:59 if you just want to hear the awakening story 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:25 AM by Twentyfirst

[Leo Gura]

Excellent

[PhilBen]

Both sides are not construct-aware, and they justify killing each other. Very simple. Zionism is an illusionary project.
Ok... but why does this guy seem to think that Zionists are more responsible than the Palestinians for the craziness that is happening?

Is it because they currently have more power? Is the victim free from its responsibility of being attached to a presumed, limited, and mortal identity?

Anyway, I do agree that it only takes one to do their part for the relationship to change. The classic: It takes two to tango. 

So maybe the westernized Jews are closer to that and should therefore be pressured (?) 

What do you guys think?

 

Edited Saturday at 01:05 PM by PhilBen

[Twentyfirst]

3 hours ago, PhilBen said:

Both sides are not construct-aware, and they justify killing each other. Very simple. Zionism is an illusionary project.
Ok... but why does this guy seem to think that Zionists are more responsible than the Palestinians for the craziness that is happening?

Is it because they currently have more power? Is the victim free from its responsibility of being attached to a presumed, limited, and mortal identity?

Anyway, I do agree that it only takes one to do their part for the relationship to change. The classic: It takes two to tango. 

So maybe the westernized Jews are closer to that and should therefore be pressured (?) 

What do you guys think?

 

I don’t think he is too biased himself and that’s the point of the awakening 

In this illusionary game the Zionists are playing the part of the colonial settler invaders with state of the art weaponry, media, and funds. And the Palestinians are playing the part of the forgotten, poor, lack of resources and support, ethnically cleansed ingenious people

A mass awakening is not gonna be the solution to this. It will be a political solution. How many people are actually enlightened in this entire world? Not many 

 

 

 

 

[Lila9]

58 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

And the Palestinians are playing the part of the forgotten, poor, lack of resources and support, ethnically cleansed ingenious people

They are playing the part of those ideologically brainwashed from childhood, believing that Jews are responsible for the evil in the world and for the low quality of their lives, rather than their greedy leaders who use them as puppets and sacrifice them to gain more money from international support by making them believe they should sacrifice their lives for a piece of land they have never even been to, and that objectively belongs to no one because nothing truly belongs to anyone.

 

[Hatfort]

I'm listening these two guys, I think their conversation belongs in this thread too. They advocate for a one state solution, they autoidentify as Palestinian Jews who want to stay and coexist in peace.

 

[Nivsch]

The lie is that "all the land belongs to Jews" and if this is what he realized then great.

[Lila9]

5 hours ago, PhilBen said:

Both sides are not construct-aware, and they justify killing each other. Very simple. Zionism is an illusionary project.
Ok... but why does this guy seem to think that Zionists are more responsible than the Palestinians for the craziness that is happening?

Is it because they currently have more power? Is the victim free from its responsibility of being attached to a presumed, limited, and mortal identity?

Anyway, I do agree that it only takes one to do their part for the relationship to change. The classic: It takes two to tango. 

So maybe the westernized Jews are closer to that and should therefore be pressured (?) 

What do you guys think?

 

He gives a good overview and claims that there is no possible solution and I tend to agree.

 

[Nivsch]

@Lila9 The word Zionism is such a mind trick that I can't appreciate any critisizm of Israel unless it uses its OWN words. Whenever a critisizm hides behind this word it obviously has something not fully arrenged in its episemology. As Albert Einstein has said "If you can't explain something simply (and need to hide behind popular words) you don't understand the Issue (or not honest) enough".

Edited Saturday at 07:45 PM by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

43 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

They are playing the part of those ideologically brainwashed from childhood, believing that Jews are responsible for the evil in the world and for the low quality of their lives, rather than their greedy leaders who use them as puppets and sacrifice them to gain more money from international support by making them believe they should sacrifice their lives for a piece of land they have never even been to, and that objectively belongs to no one because nothing truly belongs to anyone.

 

I don't know. You should ask them what they think. You should listen to what their leaders say. Don't make assumptions 

Stop listening to your puppet leaders talk about how the Palestinians feel about you. See for yourself. If you have the guts 

 

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Lila9 The word Zionism is such a mind trick that I can't appreciate any critisizm unless it uses its own words. If any critisizm hides behind this word it obviously have something not fully arrenged in its episemology.

Zionism is fine. Jews need a homeland to protect against racist Europeans and Americans. This was MORE true in the past but maybe today the only reason the West supports Israel is to keep Jews away. I think the Jews are fine everywhere today but a century ago it made sense

The problem with Zionism is that it wants to ethnically cleanse/genocide/enslave/entrap Palestinians because Palestinians are indigenous to the land of Palestine which is the land that Zionism chose

You really have to stop playing victim or detective on peoples intentions behind criticisms. If you really think that Jews truly picked a land without a people and Arabs would still be jealous of Jews success and have anti semitism towards them and seek to destroy them then you are truly someone that nobody can help. The problems with Jews in the Middle East is Zionism because it is oppressive towards an entire people that are completely innocent to the reason why Zionism was necessary. But if you keep running around in circles like this never acknowledging that and always accusing people of things and never arriving towards a solution then it's no wonder people are frustrated with you and your people 

There are no more words to string together for you to understand. You are either brainwashed, malicious, or someone that can not be helped in this lifetime unless you have a serious awakening 

[Twentyfirst]

@Lila9 Iran funded the Oct 7th attack but Hamas did it for their own cause. Why don't you listen to them and at least see where they are coming from. I can promise you one thing. They have listened to everything your side has said.

Listen to actual Palestinian peoples interviews. The ones from the West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem, Refugees outside, and ones who have citizenship outside. 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:16 PM by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

2 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

I don’t think he is too biased himself and that’s the point of the awakening 

In this illusionary game the Zionists are playing the part of the colonial settler invaders with state of the art weaponry, media, and funds. And the Palestinians are playing the part of the forgotten, poor, lack of resources and support, ethnically cleansed ingenious people

A mass awakening is not gonna be the solution to this. It will be a political solution. How many people are actually enlightened in this entire world? Not many 

 

He says in the beginning of the interview that if it was the other way around and the Palestinians were the colonial power that he would criticize the exact same way. The most important part is his awakening where he describes similar things to other sages of the past

In the awakening world one sees the illusionary game as just illusionary and instead of two people playing their parts it is a misidentification of who we think ourselves to be and a misrepresentation of who we the others are 

[Lila9]

10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Lila9 The word Zionism is such a mind trick that I can't appreciate any critisizm of Israel unless it uses its OWN words. Whenever a critisizm hides behind this word it obviously has something not fully arrenged in its episemology. As Albert Ainshtein has said "If you can't explain something simply (and need to hide behind popular words) you don't understand the Issue (or not honest) enough".

👍

[Lila9]

19 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

I don't know. You should ask them what they think. You should listen to what their leaders say. Don't make assumptions 

Stop listening to your puppet leaders talk about how the Palestinians feel about you. See for yourself. If you have the guts 

 

I have read it from a book written by a former Hamas member who is also interested in spirituality. 

[Twentyfirst]

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I have read it from a book written by a former Hamas member who is also interested in spirituality. 

Well did you know that most Hamas members are orphans from IDF massacres? And they are also under constant threat? And they have no hope because all they see is more promises of further violence from the IDF? And they have no outside support?

[Lila9]

10 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

@Lila9 Iran funded the Oct 7th attack but Hamas did it for their own cause. Why don't you listen to them and at least see where they are coming from. I can promise you one thing. They have listened to everything your side has said.

Listen to actual Palestinian peoples interviews. The ones from the West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem, Refugees outside, and ones who have citizenship outside. 

 

They are as cunning and manipulative as our leaders. Politicians use the same techniques on both their people and the media. No politician can be fully trusted.

They have stolen a disproportionate amount of the money donated by kind people to Palestinian civilians, men, women, and children. They are thieves.

 

[Twentyfirst]

Here are the two book summaries of Rich Forer

"After more than sixty years, the Israel-Palestinian issue is as intractable as ever. Groups and individuals on either side reflexively point to the other as the cause of conflict. Blame and intense emotion permeate virtually any discussion of the subject. In this book, Richard Forer explains that no action occurs in a vacuum, that we all play roles in the suffering of others and that only an honest intention to discover the history for ourselves can alleviate the suffering. Through meticulous research Forer examines and reframes the most common and misunderstood arguments on both sides of the conflict. He shows that the real enemy is the unexamined mind that projects its suffering onto the other. Though not a religious Jew, Forer had been a loyal defender of Israeli policy all his life and zealously supported Israel s 2006 invasion of Lebanon. In response to what he perceived as growing global anti-Semitism, he became a member of AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Angry that two of his most trusted friends resisted his views, and surprised that a long-time Jewish friend would suggest that his opinions were not as factually based as he assumed, Forer began an intensive study of the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict, determined to discover the facts for himself. With an uncompromising commitment to the truth, he went far beyond his original intention, even challenging his very identity. Reaching into the depths of himself, in a remarkable moment he underwent a spontaneous spiritual transformation in which he awoke to his true identity, beyond the limits of the ego and its enforced loyalties. Feeling how his attachment to Israel had blinded him to the human dimension of the conflict and had led him to reject the other in a heartless way, Forer realized that the true root of conflict is one's presumed identity and the beliefs and images that emanate from and reinforce that identity, and that these presumptions are false and unnecessary. He discovered that in Truth we are all Muslim and Jewish, Palestinian and Israeli. Forer had recognized the heart of Judaism, which embraces the Universal and identifies with all of humanity."

 

"Wake Up and Reclaim Your Humanity tells the true story of a lifelong supporter of Israel who underwent a remarkable spiritual awakening in which he realized he was as much Muslim or Christian as Jew and as much Palestinian as Israeli or American. Existential fear and confusion, the hallmarks of separate identities, were transformed into compassion and clarity and an unequivocal vision of the roots of suffering spontaneously arose. Recognizing that endless conflict only leads to alienation from our true selves, this book encourages readers to look at the documented history of the Israel-Palestine tragedy and get in touch with how they view and interpret that history. It offers readers a path that leads to freedom from false beliefs, enemy images, and the illusion of identity to equal rights for all people and a just peace between Palestinians and Israelis. An astonishing and groundbreaking commentary, Wake Up and Reclaim Your Humanity is the first book EVER written that explains the root cause of the Israel-Palestine tragedy. Wrestling with the question, "why do normally decent people, who ordinarily believe in justice, support indecency and injustice?", this book provides answers that are critical to a deeper understanding of the human condition and profoundly clarifying in their ability to alleviate the confusion that has permeated the subject for generations."

[Twentyfirst]

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

They are as cunning and manipulative as our leaders. Politicians use the same techniques on both their people and the media. No politician can be fully trusted.

They have stolen a disproportionate amount of the money donated by kind people to Palestinian civilians, men, women, and children. They are thieves.

 

So you watched the video and everything they say is a manipulation and there is no truth to it?

Proof of stolen funds? 
And proof that if they stole funds that means the Palestinian issue should be disregarded as unimportant? 

If they steal funds it's okay for Israel to steal Palestine?

Obviously there is propaganda on both sides. This is obvious and doesn't need to be stated.

Edited Saturday at 07:23 PM by Twentyfirst

[Topspin715]

Nation states and national identities are mere social constructs that have evolved for the purposes of group survival

If Israel is a lie then Palestine is definitely a lie and America is a lie and Russia is a lie etc