Life is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT

[Davino]

20 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

On the Absolute level where Enlightened Experience exists (whether via Yogic methods or Psychedelics methods) everything is Perfect, this is Bliss or Ecstasy in Experience isn't It?

Yes

Although Perfection can happen with or without the bliss/love

You can isolate perfection and have it as it is. What is Perfection?

It is possible to Awaken to Perfection.

It really is its own independent facet.

22 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

But Existence which is an Embodied Expression of Absolute is Relativistic in nature, Subjective in nature, so that is where the Imperfection exists, but yeah in the end it is perfect and or can be Experienced as Perfect, that is out Potential and its Tragic when it is not Experienced this way!!

This present moment is obviously Perfect as well. You just delude yourself into thinking you could improve Reality or this present experience in any way, like I know better than Reality what Reality has to be right now. Absolute stupidity and human arrogance that is. Once Perfection is realized everything is seen in another Light.

[Oppositionless]

Infinite timescales and having every possible experience over the course of eternity.

edit this was meant for a different thread 

Edited January 26 by Oppositionless

[Ishanga]

41 minutes ago, Davino said:

Yes

Although Perfection can happen with or without the bliss/love

You can isolate perfection and have it as it is. What is Perfection?

It is possible to Awaken to Perfection.

It really is its own independent facet.

This present moment is obviously Perfect as well. You just delude yourself into thinking you could improve Reality or this present experience in any way, like I know better than Reality what Reality has to be right now. Absolute stupidity and human arrogance that is. Once Perfection is realized everything is seen in another Light.

Well that is it, everything is seen in another light, which indicates levels to things, its okay and needed that there are People on this planet that Experience Bliss and Perfection of Creation, because the majority don't and because of that we have the world that we have today, full of absolute chaos, lost souls, suffering on all levels, the occasional Happy and Healthy person, it should be the other way around, so that is where the imperfection is Objectively speaking, regardless of how I individually subjectively Experience anything, so its an argument of Subjectivity vs Objectivity really, is there both or just one?? Subjectively there could be Absolute Perfection, Objective right now Not SO but there is Potential for it to be Objectively too!

[Davino]

@Ishanga What would you change reality to make it perfect? What is your intelligent plan? 

I'm all ears 

Thought experiment: How would I design Reality?

[Ishanga]

14 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Ishanga What would you change reality to make it perfect? What is your intelligent plan? 

I'm all ears 

Thought experiment: How would I design Reality?

Well I don't know if I am qualified really to answer that one lol... But it depends on the Purpose of Reality? And is Purpose or Meaning a real or necessary thing to have a Reality in the First place? 

When it comes to these sorts of deep deep Questions, which basically comes down to "What is the Nature of Reality or Creation/Absolute/God/Brahma/Shiva", we can't really use logic to explain it or describe it or anything to do with it as it is way beyond Logic right?

I have no Conclusions about Reality or Absolute other than it is a Potential and Possibility machine of sorts, we are here to play it all out in a dual, material, karmic way, via Experience, so that in the end Absolute can know itself..

It cannot Know itself via its own Awareness since I think it is not Aware, or has a capacity to be Aware, its just Oneness, Completeness, a Super Duper Intelligence of Sorts. capable of Infinity and beyond which too me means its all Potential and Possibility, so we are here, we don't know for sure where we came from, how it all started, all we can do is play the game which is played on many levels. 

 Awareness for Us is key, its another form of Intelligence that we can use to live higher up the Potential scale, to one day dissolve and go back to Absolute, so as I said on the Absolute Level this is perfect, but down here not so perfect if Suffering is still happening, most of which is our own doing due to a Lack of Awareness...

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Davino said:

How would I design Reality?

I would make it so that people would be terrified of dying, would want permanence, would form a perfect family and then when the children were 10 years old the mother would have an aggressive brain cancer that would plunge her into horror and she would spend her last days trembling in a constant panic attack without being able to articulate a word, in the presence of her children, who in the future would be addicted to methamphetamine and would put their penis in the mouth of her 6-year-old son. Yes, I think I would do something like that.

Reality is not designed, it is wild, it seeks possible paths, it flows, it increases in complexity like a kaleidoscope creating forms, and yes, it is perfect in its structure and divine in its essence.

[Breakingthewall]

16 hours ago, Ishanga said:

What is Perfection, its a strange word, and is subjective in many aspects, but as far as I can tell most of Existence is Perfection as I define it, but not Humans on the Doing or Having aspects of Life, in that regard we are far from perfect because we cause massive amounts of Suffering, there is no Suffering when its absolutely Perfect...where Suffering Exists as it does here right now, then imPerfection exists, and it has to exist as a dual opposite of Perfection, its just a matter of does it have to be expressed or not, the Potential exists for Both, choice determines what happens and Consciousness determines Perfection or Imperfection is being Expressed..

Suffering is a consequence of the evolutionary step of life to the self-conscious mind. Life by nature is impermanent and aggressive, this is great if you are a tuna in the ocean, but if you are a human it is a real shit, so the human being tirelessly seeks new paths, like a river of unstoppable force, evolving every second.

[sholomar]

I pondered this very question and came to the conclusion that our true existence, while blissful, is most likely incredibly boring. We may choose to enter into this reality that seems to be set up to cause misery so that when we exit we learn to appreciate the blissfulness again, at least until we get bored again.

What will happen when humans master genetic engineering and the true cause of suffering, our primitive animal biology and it's negativity bias which evolved to help our species survive, is no longer there?  That will begin the dawn of a new era. Until then, it's going to be much of the same, with increasing technology.  It's easy to teach "the secret" to people and tell them to "be positive" or "this is all an illusion" but that doesn't mean shit when a person feels like crap and has long standing negativity programmed into their brain and the illusion feels real to them to the point where their amygdala is literally larger than average because of the years of it they've built like a muscle.

I have this intuitive sense that although I dislike the way I feel in this life, that I chose it for a reason, and will be back again. Call it a "feeling."  ... I hear these stories from others about how their souls were tricked into coming here and they didn't want to come... those fuckheads better not force this prison on us, or I'll take them out myself.   To overthrow the Gods... how sacrilegious. haha.  I suppose even the spirit plane needs order, and people in charge.

Edited January 27 by sholomar

[Davino]

On 26/1/2025 at 11:05 PM, Ishanga said:

When it comes to these sorts of deep deep Questions, which basically comes down to "What is the Nature of Reality or Creation/Absolute/God/Brahma/Shiva", we can't really use logic to explain it or describe it or anything to do with it as it is way beyond Logic right?

Yet, you're very opinioted about the imperfection of human life and the world on this earth. How come?

On 26/1/2025 at 11:05 PM, Ishanga said:

I have no Conclusions about Reality or Absolute other than it is a Potential and Possibility machine of sorts, we are here to play it all out in a dual, material, karmic way, via Experience, so that in the end Absolute can know itself..

In what ways it is being imperfect in that?

On 26/1/2025 at 11:05 PM, Ishanga said:

It cannot Know itself via its own Awareness since I think it is not Aware, or has a capacity to be Aware, its just Oneness, Completeness, a Super Duper Intelligence of Sorts. capable of Infinity and beyond which too me means its all Potential and Possibility, so we are here, we don't know for sure where we came from, how it all started, all we can do is play the game which is played on many levels. 

False

Reality is an Infinite Field of Consciousness, which is self-aware and inately intelligent

On 26/1/2025 at 11:05 PM, Ishanga said:

 Awareness for Us is key, its another form of Intelligence that we can use to live higher up the Potential scale, to one day dissolve and go back to Absolute

Yes, that direction of contemplation is much much better. Awareness=Inteliggence

On 26/1/2025 at 11:05 PM, Ishanga said:

so as I said on the Absolute Level this is perfect, but down here not so perfect if Suffering is still happening, most of which is our own doing due to a Lack of Awareness...

Why Suffering is imperfect?

Why lack of awareness is imperfect?

Those things are perfectly happening for the perfect mechanisms of Reality to function. I really don't see the imperfection of this world that you're trying to point out to me. Please help me understand your perspective.

[Breakingthewall]

On 26/1/2025 at 6:04 PM, Davino said:

Reality or this present experience in any way, like I know better than Reality what Reality has to be right now. Absolute stupidity and human arrogance that is.

23 hours ago, sholomar said:

 

 

Then in one side there si that perfect thing, the reality, and in another side something unperfected, the human being, who is stupid and arrogant 

Perfection is something very simple, just absence of bias. Perfection means nothing, is a subjective idea. Obviously everything is perfect because it is, then what means perfection? Nothing 

Edited January 28 by Breakingthewall

[Davino]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then in one side there si that perfect thing, the reality, and in another side something unperfected, the human being, who is stupid and arrogant 

Never said such a thing. It takes infinite levels of self deception, intelligence and perfection to delude and limir God/yourself/Reality in such a way.

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Perfection is something very simple, just absence of bias. Perfection means nothing, is a subjective idea. Obviously everything is perfect because it is, then what means perfection? Nothing 

Why are you trying so hard to reduce perfection down to nothingness?

Each facet of the Absolute is Sovereign in itself and hence I claim that Perfection is such a One.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Davino said:

 

Why are you trying so hard to reduce perfection down to nothingness?

 

Because saying that perfection is something closes, perfection is absence of bias, reality hasn't attributes like "perfection", those are subjectives and happens in the reality, and has an opposite, unperfect in this case. Reality is absolute, not perfect. Any attribute closes, because is trying to define the absolute from the relative. Don't you see it?

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall Ah yes, I see what you say. Now I understand your perspective.

 

[Ishanga]

On 1/28/2025 at 4:53 AM, Davino said:

Yet, you're very opinioted about the imperfection of human life and the world on this earth. How come?

In what ways it is being imperfect in that?

False

Reality is an Infinite Field of Consciousness, which is self-aware and inately intelligent

Yes, that direction of contemplation is much much better. Awareness=Inteliggence

Why Suffering is imperfect?

Why lack of awareness is imperfect?

Those things are perfectly happening for the perfect mechanisms of Reality to function. I really don't see the imperfection of this world that you're trying to point out to me. Please help me understand your perspective.

Its not opinion, just look and see..

Its great to have an Experience of Perfection, because Fundamentally that is what Existence is, its set up Perfectly as anything and everything can happen, that is what Possibility Is! But as Humans we have choice and via the choices we have made, its obvious, we created lots and lots of Suffering. its a part of the circle, if Bliss exists Suffering has too as well, so we have to choose and we haven't been choosing Consciously hence we have what we have today, we live in the best time ever on all fronts, but we are suffering more than ever because we lack Consciousness as a whole!

Perfection in all truth for me is not a good word to use especially when it comes to Human Life. It means complete Harmony.  So just because there is unlimited Possibility does not mean all of it has to be expressed or experienced, Suffering as an Experience is one of those that does not need to be Experienced, Pain is needed on many levels, especially within the Body, if we had no experience of Pain we would not be here talking on this forum because we would not have evolved enough to invent forums or the internet or anything associated with it, so Pain is needed.  But ppl are creating their own pain over and over again, this is what it means for Pain to turn into Suffering, and its mostly self inflicted due to Unconsciousness..

Lack of Awareness is imperfect because it means we are living below our Potential.. Just go on the Mental Health Threads, no one there is proclaim Life is Perfect, because there is a serious lack of Awareness from those ppl, that is the whole point of the many Spiritual Methods, to get them to a point of High Awareness and Consciousness so Suffering is avoided and Potentials arise within them, this is basic stuff!!!

If You look at everything via the Absolute filter then Yes, everything is Perfect because everything is as it should be (this Moment is Inevitable), that does not mean it has to be this way or that individuals want it this way, its Acceptance that's all, this stops our Stress Response which creates more Suffering in the end.. You get into a Car Accident, You get injured, Your Health is now affected, Your capability is not as it was before, plus Your car is destroyed, having a Stress Response to it makes it worse, You further disable Your ability to deal with it, so as was said before there is Absolute Level of looking at things, then the Relative Level, go to Gaza tell them Life is Perfect, they will Stone You to Death for sure!!

[Breakingthewall]

41 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

but we are suffering more than ever because we lack Consciousness as a whole!

Suffering is a tool of the reality to move, to evolve. It's the most efficient way, the whole picture doesn't care about individual suffering

There are two angles to see life, from the individual, then suffering is bad, something to avoid, and from the whole, then suffering is the same than pleasure. Spirituality is place yourself in the whole in some moments, without forgetting the individual perspective. Both are right, but are different. Ultimately, the absolute is real and the individual is just being a puppet, but it's inevitable 

The purpose of reality isn't a society of happy people, is evolution. Reality loves suffering, that's why there is so much.

Edited January 29 by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Suffering is a tool of the reality to move, to evolve. It's the most efficient way, the whole picture doesn't care about individual suffering

There are two angles to see life, from the individual, then suffering is bad, something to avoid, and from the whole, then suffering is the same than pleasure. Spirituality is place yourself in the whole in some moments, without forgetting the individual perspective. Both are right, but are different. Ultimately, the absolute is real and the individual is just being a puppet.

The purpose of reality isn't a society of happy people, is evolution. Reality loves suffering, that's why there is so much.

Yes, but when it happens to You, Your Suffering like never before its not fun, so why is that so? Because Suffering sucks, no one wants to continually Suffering and in the end it comes down to YOU, not the Absolute or Reality as a whole, its a grand concept and good to contemplate and if possible Experience via Yogic methods or psychedelics, but its all within YOU the individual, so never forget that, we can think all we want about Absolute, the Universe, what is this or that, but in the end its all about YOU, as all You have is Subjectivity!

Everything here discussed on this forum is just sharing of concept and personal Experience that's it, it the end its forgotten next week and the cycle continues, but YOU don't unless You die, so that is what is important to remember and consider, Claim all You want that Your Enlightened and far above anyone else here or on the planet (Not saying You are::)) but its only a Story to Me:)

Edited January 29 by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

@Ishanga yes sure, a lot of suffering everywhere, tomorrow the doctor tells you that you have a cancer that is going to kill you in 2 years of suffering and decadence, and the entire world can be very conciouss or anything that you are going to suffer exactly the same

[Ishanga]

40 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Ishanga yes sure, a lot of suffering everywhere, tomorrow the doctor tells you that you have a cancer that is going to kill you in 2 years of suffering and decadence, and the entire world can be very conciouss or anything that you are going to suffer exactly the same

Suffering something like that is a choice, some use it to live full and complete lives while they still have a body to do so, but many suffer it, that is their choice... Suffering is not an absolute, its not a guarantee upon hearing bad news, there is no bad news, your response to it is what matters.. yes many do not have the consciousness level to be like this, so that is the point of Spiritual Practices, so that they have a means to be like this and live more complete lives..

Edited January 29 by Ishanga