'Focus on the breath' meditation vs the Void

[abgespaced]

I become very confused when i try to follow 'mindfulness' type meditations that require your to 'focus on your breath'. 

When i meditate without any guidance or intention such as 'focus on the breath', I immediately enter a no-mind state- it's like i'm in a big empty black hall right behind my eyes, like the vastness of space, expanding the longer i meditate. I call it the Void.

In this state I notice everything as it arises- breath included. Also thoughts that arise and take over the Void, then fall away again, giving way to the Void.

But when meditation teachers say to 'focus on the breath', i have to move out of this space and concentrate all of my attention on the breath alone, which feels very restrictive. I also notice a tendency for my body to move physically towards the centre of the physical sensations.

It is a very narrow, very mentally intense exercise, much like thinking. Doesn't seem very productive at all to have hyper-fixation on a singular experience. And kind of annoying, in that without this specific practice of 'focus on the breath' i can already observe the physical sensations of breathing without having to focus on them specifically, as the awareness of them arises and falls in the Void with everything else.

Does anyone know the technical term for these differences in awareness/concentration? Or what those two states are: 1) open-expansiveness with no focus/mind but still observant of breathing 2) concentration based focus on breathing alone to the exclusion of all other experience, including the Void?

And finally.. can a 'mindfulness' based practice of 'focusing on the breath' still be achieved in this void-like space, or does it require collapsing the Void and excluding all other observations?

Thanks

Edited January 22 by abgespaced

[The Crocodile]

There are infinite types of meditation, and they can resonate with different people or be useful for different things.

Yes, focusing on the Void could give you better insight then focusing on the breath. It might be called something like a "formless dhyana" in technical terms.

But if you want concentration on how the breath you could try actual pranayama, like inhale for 12 seconds, hold breath for 12 seconds, exhale for 12 seconds, hold breath for 12 seconds, repeat. And you can see how breath modulates perception and reality.

[kavaris]

@abgespaced

1 hour ago, abgespaced said:

I become very confused when i try to follow 'mindfulness' type meditations that require your to 'focus on your breath'. etc...

This is one issue... "focusing on your breath" is a high level aspect to meditation, and unless youve been doing it awhile, your actually doing it wrong... If you are confused then it sounds like you need to learn from the beginning (alot of people dont know these things anyway, so alot of people are about to learn, not just you)

You are doing it wrong.... Why is that?

1. When you focus on your breath you interrupt your natural breathing mechanism (the act of being conscious of, makes it such that you cant un-focus on it) however when youve been doing it awhile, this line between conscious and unconscious breath work gets blurred... If this makes sense to you, stop focusing on your breath.

2. If you breathe too hard then you are activating your adrenal glands (this is better for when you are cold or are in a situation where you need to do something thats physically intensive)... Nevertheless, it would be a mistake too try breathing beyond what you would be doing in a relaxed state (ask yourself, does it make sense to have adrenaline activated while you are trying to relax?)

The key idea here is "being relaxed", and should be what you are aiming for. Not enough people know this, so when they are just starting, they get tripped up on simple things like this.

3. Theres actually some methodology going on, that you havent mentioned in your post beyond the fact that you've been focusing on the void, which leads to "moving physically towards the centre of the physical sensations", that is to say that (i have to assume) that you are still trying to focus on the back of your eyes on what you call the void. That is fine... You can focus on the void. Dont change this part...

(edit: you shouldnt consider it as "focusing on the back of your eyes", but rather, its just that your eyes need something in front of them, and you are leaving them to look at either the back of your eyes OR, the room around you. Neither really are better or worse, and so you are just leaving your eyes to be with whatever they are looking at, as opposed to "focusing" with your eyes, if that makes sense)

4. What you do have to change is what you are focusing on (within the body) as you get "deeper or more comfortable", as it always begins as a kind of "settling into the body"... That is to say, you are suppose to start by focusing your energy on the "temple lobes"... or a region near the sides of your head, such that it builds up, wherein you would be moving all your focus towards the center of your head, or a vague area near that region (the focus you put towards the temples grows, so... it might also be considered a "growing of sensations" or activations within the head, via temporal (temple) lobes)

Theres alot more, but... lets just start small so you can get the basics down first.

Edited January 23 by kavaris

[Salvijus]

7 hours ago, abgespaced said:

And finally.. can a 'mindfulness' based practice of 'focusing on the breath' still be achieved in this void-like space, or does it require collapsing the Void and excluding all other observations?

Thanks

You can practice awareness on the breath and awareness of primordial space at the same time. In fact it's a really good practice. 

[Hojo]

Watch the body breathe by itself. The body will breathe automatically.

Edited January 23 by Hojo

[numbersinarow]

On 1/23/2025 at 0:47 AM, abgespaced said:

And finally.. can a 'mindfulness' based practice of 'focusing on the breath' still be achieved in this void-like space, or does it require collapsing the Void and excluding all other observations?

Without the focus practices, what are you ever going to accomplish in terms of your mind? Without the ability to control your mind in that way, what can you really expect? "Mindfulness" in the sense that you just observe but don't focus is insufficient. Focus meditation is way more effective for me.