Modern slavery question

[Twentyfirst]

21 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That's also true. I am in an incredibly privileged position to be able to make this observation... like an anthropologist studying the human situation from and objective but distant place.

And it is only in my position of privilege that I can observe it from a more detached and less heart-centered place. And that creates more objectivity but less heart-wisdom if I leave it at that.

This happens often in the way that men can think of women. And men can be more detached because they are not on the chopping block. And I cannot stand it when they think they are more correct because they can look at the situation from a detached more objective view because they do not recognize that they're lacking in the empathy and heart-wisdom.

And it is certainly short-sighted if it's used to excuse these acts of barbarism.

It's always negative to treat people as sacrificial lambs. And we should always be against it as individuals as we need the individuals of a populace to always be pro-people and pro-human development.

Only then, can we actually put the adequate pressure needed to change these imperialist dominator tendencies.

That said, it is true how these dynamics tend to work. Lots of human sacrifice of life and potentials along many factions of the species goes into growing as a species. And I am not on the chopping block in this particular instance because I am from the imperial power with the greatest degree of military might.

So, I do apologize if my perspective is insensitive as I am giving a very detached objective view of the gnarly ways that human societies use and gain power... and how individual people end up as sacrificial lambs of the process.

Your perspective is not insensitive it is just wrong. 

You said it yourself. Men are not more correct about women who are on the chopping block. So how would you be more correct about the oppressed who are on the chopping block? Or are you just saying you can't stand it when they think they are more correct? 

Who knows more about your society than the people who have been on the receiving end of the open air brutality? What would your society know about its sickness? It hides it. It lies to its own citizens to pay for and fight in the brutality. It isn't out in the open or else it wouldn't work. You only find out about it decades later and you go back and say "ohhhh so thats why they flew planes into our buildings or bombed this public space" and then you still don't change the next time the propaganda machine does the same exact tactic and we warn you ahead of time 

When you guys say that Russia/India/China is abusing its own people. And that it is necessary to go to war with them. It scares the shit out of me because thats what was said about my people before the Americans invaded. And when they say that they have women's rights violations. That was also what was said about my people. Then they say they have no freedom of press so Russians cant even speak out on true horrors. That was also said about my people. We were fine before and now after American so called liberation everything is fucked. I feel like propaganda always comes a decade or two before the invasions. You guys need to look within your own societies for all these messed up problems and stop projecting it outwards

Edited 14 hours ago by Twentyfirst

[Shane Hanlon]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Note that less developed nations are not rejecting weapons, they all desperately want bigger weapons, they just aren't capable of making them, or can't afford them. But if they could afford them they would buy them. So your lower nations are not some hippie, noble, spiritual, pacifists. They are warlords and warmongers, just less developed one

Except for Costa Rica and Bhutan. But they also do not have easily exploitable and highly valuable natural resources.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Shane Hanlon said:

Except for Costa Rica and Bhutan. But they also do not have easily exploitable and highly valuable natural resources.

That's all nice until Trump decides he wants to invade Costa Rica. Then all the Costa Rica hippies are fucked.

[Shane Hanlon]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

That's all nice until Trump decides he wants to invade Costa Rica. Then all the Costa Rica hippies are fucked.

yep.

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That's all nice until Trump decides he wants to invade Costa Rica. Then all the Costa Rica hippies are fucked.

Meh, I'd rather die in Gaza proudly than be a zionist shooting a child in the head. Dignity 

[Emerald]

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Your perspective is not insensitive it is just wrong. 

You said it yourself. Men are not more correct about women who are on the chopping block. So how would you be more correct about the oppressed who are on the chopping block? Or are you just saying you can't stand it when they think they are more correct? 

Who knows more about your society than the people who have been on the receiving end of the open air brutality? What would your society know about its sickness? It hides it. It lies to its own citizens to pay for and fight in the brutality. It isn't out in the open or else it wouldn't work. You only find out about it decades later and you go back and say "ohhhh so thats why they flew planes into our buildings or bombed this public space" and then you still don't change the next time the propaganda machine does the same exact tactic and we warn you ahead of time 

What I'm saying is that I'm more objectively correct about the barbaric ways and reasons that countries develop more power over other countries. But I'm talking about it from a very distant perspective without acknowledging the pain and the suffering and the sacrifice of human life and potential that it entails.

I'm talking about it like I'm a scientist observing the behaviors of ants on an anthill... where the scientist is not impacted at all by the actions of the ants.

And I can pretend to that detached perspective because I'm not on the chopping block in this instance. My life and human potential isn't being threatened by imperialism because I am receiving the benefits and privileges of being a citizen of a highly developed wealthy imperialist nations that enacts all sort of barbarisms to other nations and the people who inhabit them.

From one angle, that is the nature of humanity at these earlier stages of development (as humanity is generally not very well developed at this juncture in time nor any past time).

All women have had to be sacrificial lambs up until the past 100 years or so because all of our human potential had to be wrapped up in rearing many many children and having to do all the household sustenance tasks from scratch without modern inventions.

Similar could be said of any peasant (male or female) in certain ways as they had to waste human potential on toiling the field for a landlord.

And then, of course countless young men have died in war as sacrificial lambs.

Human development only grows out of lots of suffering and lots of sacrifice of human life and human will. And through that sacrifice later enables a world with less human sacrifice. 

And we all benefit in varying degrees by the sacrifices made by earlier people. 

But in this particular case, the sacrifice comes from powerful countries imperializing less powerful countries and curtailing the development of those societies and lessening the quality (and often quantity) of life of the people in them.

And this development of dominance comes about through geographic factors and greater access to specific resources at earlier points in human history, which have enabled certain imperial powers to curtail the developmental potential of certain countries and peoples which has a cascading effect into modern day in our current geopolitical climate.

And it is an unfortunate developmental phase that humanity goes through. But we likely won't be rid of it in our lifetimes.

And I admit that I am on the receiving end of the benefits of said imperialism. My life is better because other people's lives are worse even though that's a bitter pill for me because I value mercy.

There's been a lot of human sacrifice and continues to be human sacrifice just so that me and my children can be safe... and we have more opportunities to self-actualize because of the context we live in. And I'm grateful that my children don't have to suffer as much... but I know that the children of others are suffering tremendously.

There's no getting around that. It's just a fact.

That's why this objective distant view of things, when used as a justification can be 1. lacking heart-wisdom, 2. enabling of the powers that be when the populace needs to put pressure on our institutions to be better, 3. insensitive to those who are directly harmed by these patterns.

 

[Twentyfirst]

@Emerald You said development like ten times. You make it seem like it's just something that happens rather than choices your society makes. But we tell you all the faults, pitfalls, mistakes, and misunderstandings of your society and you deny them. Or you will accept them but still point the finger at others which gives allowance to what your society is doing to them. Or you will accept them but still make no effort to change your society. 

Why would you live in a society that benefits off the cold blooded murder of someone else? It's like zionism where the Jews are literally taking the place of someone that has more right to be there and are suffering instead when they could just leave and give the place back to the Palestinians and then the problem would be solved just like that. It's not complicated

So you will just take food from another woman's child's mouth and put it directly in your child's mouth and you WILL feel bad about it but you WONT stop. Yet you judge say Middle Easterners for belonging to a society which wrongs women (maybe extreme cases but definitely not the overall society) and you wonder why they don't just move to the West where women are treated the way you think is best for them

Why should they suffer for you? What are you personally doing to benefit the world. I know you didn't make the iPhone yourself. You make it seem like you have no agency and you are so unlucky because of the fact that you are lucky to be privileged 

[Twentyfirst]

Another response to the earlier Jordan Peterson video I posted

Too much truth for Westerners to grapple with. It's not easy to know that your entire society is a lie and other societies are not as hungry for power, wealth, or advancement and are actually quite content. It's not easy to admit that you have been completely mislead and you are wrong. But it could be very rewarding. Awakening is always nice after you puke out the garbage 

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

@Emerald You said development like ten times. You make it seem like it's just something that happens rather than choices your society makes. But we tell you all the faults, pitfalls, mistakes, and misunderstandings of your society and you deny them. Or you will accept them but still point the finger at others which gives allowance to what your society is doing to them. Or you will accept them but still make no effort to change your society. 

Why would you live in a society that benefits off the cold blooded murder of someone else? It's like zionism where the Jews are literally taking the place of someone that has more right to be there and are suffering instead when they could just leave and give the place back to the Palestinians and then the problem would be solved just like that. It's not complicated

So you will just take food from another woman's child's mouth and put it directly in your child's mouth and you WILL feel bad about it but you WONT stop. Yet you judge say Middle Easterners for belonging to a society which wrongs women (maybe extreme cases but definitely not the overall society) and you wonder why they don't just move to the West where women are treated the way you think is best for them

Why should they suffer for you? What are you personally doing to benefit the world. I know you didn't make the iPhone yourself. You make it seem like you have no agency and you are so unlucky because of the fact that you are lucky to be privileged 

I have been down these rabbit holes of questioning many times. This line of questioning is not new to me... and sounds like my inner voice on a day where I can't quite narrow the aperture of my awareness to focus on what's in my power.

It has tended to torture me quite a bit since childhood because I've never been able to be 100% unconscious or numb to these imbalances... and I go around and around in my head recognizing that my existence is propped up by lots of suffering of other sentient beings.

It's this constant powerless spinning of the wheels of wanting desperately to change how things are but not being able to. And I've only recently come to more of an acceptance/resignation to it to realize that I cannot change the fact that my life is only as good as it is because of tremendous amounts of historical and present human suffering.

The reality of the matter is that I don't have much personal power to change these dynamics in a real way other than to raise awareness about how these power structures are functioning or perhaps boycotting companies that are supporting these dynamics... and donating to funds that help people in precarious situations.

But if I did have the power and it was in a real trolley problem where if I sacrifice myself then an entire society of people get to have a better life, then I'd probably have to work up the courage to die for a worthy cause. I would do my best to embrace being a sacrificial lamb if it was clear that my death and sacrifice would lead to a better world.

Though I know I would not be able to sacrifice my children for any cause, no matter how noble. Don't expect any higher conscious sacrificial behavior from a mother bear protecting her cubs.

I hate imperialism and all the corrupt power structures. But I'm also grateful that my children are in a position within the current state of the world where their suffering isn't so great. And I wish that for other people's children as well.

But I recognize that my children's lack of suffering in many ways comes from other children's suffering. So, it's a mixture of relief, guilt, and inner turmoil.

[integral]

@Emerald seriously you could just take whatever you're writing, put it into a text to speech generator, and then upload it straight to YouTube with some basic video editing. The writing perfectly flows for retention. lol I would kill to be able to write like this.

[Emerald]

Just now, integral said:

@Emerald seriously you could just take whatever you're writing, put it into a text to speech generator, and then upload it straight to YouTube with some basic video editing. The writing perfectly flows for retention. lol I would kill to be able to write like this.

Thank you  

[Twentyfirst]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I have been down these rabbit holes of questioning many times. This line of questioning is not new to me... and sounds like my inner voice on a day where I can't quite narrow the aperture of my awareness to focus on what's in my power.

It has tended to torture me quite a bit since childhood because I've never been able to be 100% unconscious or numb to these imbalances... and I go around and around in my head recognizing that my existence is propped up by lots of suffering of other sentient beings.

It's this constant powerless spinning of the wheels of wanting desperately to change how things are but not being able to. And I've only recently come to more of an acceptance/resignation to it to realize that I cannot change the fact that my life is only as good as it is because of tremendous amounts of historical and present human suffering.

The reality of the matter is that I don't have much personal power to change these dynamics in a real way other than to raise awareness about how these power structures are functioning or perhaps boycotting companies that are supporting these dynamics... and donating to funds that help people in precarious situations.

But if I did have the power and it was in a real trolley problem where if I sacrifice myself then an entire society of people get to have a better life, then I'd probably have to work up the courage to die for a worthy cause. I would do my best to embrace being a sacrificial lamb if it was clear that my death and sacrifice would lead to a better world.

Though I know I would not be able to sacrifice my children for any cause, no matter how noble. Don't expect any higher conscious sacrificial behavior from a mother bear protecting her cubs.

I hate imperialism and all the corrupt power structures. But I'm also grateful that my children are in a position within the current state of the world where their suffering isn't so great. And I wish that for other people's children as well.

But I recognize that my children's lack of suffering in many ways comes from other children's suffering. So, it's a mixture of relief, guilt, and inner turmoil.

Well don't torture yourself too much. I was only positioning the question back the way you said. You said you were coming from a place of privilege which is sort of a western supremacy mentality 

In truth. You are just as much a victim of the west as people outside the west. Because the west stole a lot from you that you don't even know is basic to other cultures and societies

The whole thing is sad. I think the end of it all is coming soon though so we will see if my prediction is right and shifts are coming 

 

[Emerald]

Just now, Twentyfirst said:

Well don't torture yourself too much. I was only positioning the question back the way you said. You said you were coming from a place of privilege which is sort of a western supremacy mentality 

In truth. You are just as much a victim of the west as people outside the west. Because the west stole a lot from you that you don't even know is basic to other cultures and societies

The whole thing is sad. I think the end of it all is coming soon though so we will see if my prediction is right and shifts are coming 

Certainly all societies steal a lot of a human potentials from their constituents. And undoubtedly that's true across the board including in the US... we're all limited by the level of infrastructure that our society has developed.

But I am privileged in the sense that my country is highly unlikely to be invaded by another imperialist nation, because the US is the main imperializer of the world with the biggest military budget.

I'm also unlikely to have a foreign government topple my government.

As a US citizen, I'm 100% sure that we'll never be in a Gaza-like situation.

There are just certain military-related safety concerns that I don't have to consider, just because of where I live.

I also have access to resources (like food, clean water, medicine, hospitals, roads. public schools, public libraries, public fire departments, etc.) that some places just don't have. And they don't have them because of the imperialism-based imbalances between countries.

So, just on these dynamics alone that's a CRAZY amount of privilege. And it would be a lie to not admit that to myself.

And I'm grateful for these privileges... but I don't like the fact that these are privileges that many people around the world don't have access to.

[Twentyfirst]

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Certainly all societies steal a lot of a human potentials from their constituents. And undoubtedly that's true across the board including in the US... we're all limited by the level of infrastructure that our society has developed.

No. I meant yours exclusively. Of course every society does but yours is like on a whole other level. Not to be compared 

Quote

But I am privileged in the sense that my country is highly unlikely to be invaded by another imperialist nation, because the US is the main imperializer of the world with the biggest military budget.

But there will be terrorist attacks every now and then. Which is why your country had the war on terror and anytime somebody went to the airport they feared for their life when they saw a guy with a beard

Quote

I'm also unlikely to have a foreign government topple my government.

It doesn't have to. Your own government is against you. And corporations own your politicians. You may be better off with a foreign government toppling your own

Quote

As a US citizen, I'm 100% sure that we'll never be in a Gaza-like situation.

Which is funny to say because the US government created the Gaza situation. How can you trust they won't do the same to you one day? You trust the serial killer who murdered every one on the street besides you? 

Quote

There are just certain military-related safety concerns that I don't have to consider, just because of where I live.

Your safe unless you walk into a public school that is

They can still use economic warfare on you

Quote

I also have access to resources (like food, clean water, medicine, hospitals, roads. public schools, public libraries, public fire departments, etc.) that some places just don't have. And they don't have them because of the imperialism-based imbalances between countries.

Good. Im happy for you. But this isn't what I meant when I said the west robs you of basic things. I was talking more about values and ways of life that westerners are severely missing out on

Quote

So, just on these dynamics alone that's a CRAZY amount of privilege. And it would be a lie to not admit that to myself.

The top 0.001 percent of people in your country completely surpass you in terms of having an exceptional life. Remember feudalism 

Quote

And I'm grateful for these privileges... but I don't like the fact that these are privileges that many people around the world don't have access to.

If you don't like it. Leave. There are Germans that saw Nazism coming and left before things went really wrong

Edited 13 hours ago by Twentyfirst

[Bobby_2021]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is nothing you guys will say, no argument you can come up with, that will change the reality that the West is more developed than the rest.

This is not the point of contention with the original post.

The point of contention is that "Western values result in less enslaved people". 

What I am asserting is that you need an awful lot of slavery to sustain western values. They simply happen to be across the ocean.

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course it's different because 3rd world nations are now developing using a different pathway, using 1st world technology, and in a different era, where 1st world development and values already exist. That is very different from developing the 1st world from scratch.

First of all, you got to stop using outdated terminologies "1st world"  and "3rd world".

There is something called business and trade by which exchange of knowledge and technologies would have happened anyway.

Engaging in business and trade with other countries is not a "different pathway". 

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe China is not starting colonial wars, but it has enslaved its own people in insane levels of brainwashing to compensate

China has built a unique system for generating economic affluence without significant wealth extraction from elsewhere. 

You cannot brainwash and bullshit your way into trillion dollars economies.

They didn't use western values of free market or private property at all. It's a one time magic of central planning done right. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

No. I meant yours exclusively. Of course every society does but yours is like on a whole other level. Not to be compared 

But there will be terrorist attacks every now and then. Which is why your country had the war on terror and anytime somebody went to the airport they feared for their life when they saw a guy with a beard

It doesn't have to. Your own government is against you. And corporations own your politicians. You may be better off with a foreign government toppling your own

Which is funny to say because the US government created the Gaza situation. How can you trust they won't do the same to you one day? You trust the serial killer who murdered every one on the street besides you? 

Your safe unless you walk into a public school that is

They can still use economic warfare on you

Good. Im happy for you. But this isn't what I meant when I said the west robs you of basic things. I was talking more about values and ways of life that westerners are severely missing out on

The top 0.001 percent of people in your country completely surpass you in terms of having an exceptional life. Remember feudalism 

If you don't like it. Leave. There are Germans that saw Nazism coming and left before things went really wrong

I know lots of people all over the world. And while my travel experiences are minimal, I have been to a few other countries.

And I don't sense that the US is uniquely under-developed compared to other places in terms of the experience of the average person living in the US. It's still probably in the top 20-30 countries on the planet in terms of quality of life for its citizens in most facets.

Though it does have its uniquely terrible things like lack of universal healthcare and lack of paid vacation and maternity leave policies. And it's hyper-Capitalist and cut-throat. And its foreign policy is atrocious. Gun violence is also horrible here because of how easily accessible guns are. And there are many things that I disagree with and dislike.

I'm very open in my critiques of the US.... in terms of both domestic and foreign policy.

You seem to assume that I'm some hyper-nationalist USA defender. I'm definitely not. But my perspective on the US is nuanced and calibrated to what I know about the current state of the world, which is something that I'm always open to learning about. I have no attachment to the idea to any nationalist ideals. 

And I do resonate more with the societal supports that Scandinavian countries have. I wish that the US would move more in the direction if Social Democracy.

But terror attacks rarely happen... and when they do, they're one-off situations. And I don't feel unsafe because I know that I'm a million times more likely to die in a car accident than I am in a terror attack. Only conservatives who watch Fox News get paranoid about things like that... and the same people get scared of the guy with he beard on the plane. 

And the War on Terror is just a way to get the people whipped into a frenzy of fear and xenophobia to support the government to have more control, wage profitable wars, and have more ability to skirt around due process as long as they label someone a terrorist.

And next to NO ONE is better off with a foreign government toppling their own. Maybe in a really domestically authoritarian place with tons of human rights abuses, having a foreign country come in and take over could be preferable to the status quo. But that's so much instability... and the populace would be so vulnerable to the new power structure. Lots of unrest.

And I trust that the US won't selectively attack some section of its own country because 1. It has no power-based interests to do that and 2. That would cause a genuine uproar in the populace which would create a lot more resistance to the powers that be... which is something that large power structures try to domestically avoid and only do outside the bounds of the country.

And yes, there's definitely lots of economic warfare going on. It's definitely shifting to shrinking middle class and bigger gaps between the rich a poor... and that comes from a government that's in the pocket of billionaires and major industries.

Now, in terms of my way of life... I do like my way of life. I wouldn't necessarily want to change that. Or if I did, I'd want to on my own terms.

This is a very hyper-individualistic society, and I am pretty well adapted to that and really appreciate the achievement-focus. I find that very exciting. 

I also love having the support of my family and really like our little single-family home.

But I intend later on in my life to create intentional community, because we do lack in terms of community connection. That said, I would not trade my freedom and authenticity for community connection. And it seems like people from cultures who emphasize collectivism over individualism have to sacrifice a lot of agency and authenticity to make that orientation to the world work.

So, my goal is to eventually organize a small intentional community of like-minded folks to commune with so that more of those community and connection needs are met.

And I don't care if the top 0.0001% have it better than me. I only care if they're impacting others negatively... which they are. But I don't care if someone has a lifestyle that's a zillion times better than mine... as long as I have everything I need.

I don't like a lot of things about the US and how it functions. But that doesn't mean I want to leave. I like my life here. And I feel pretty lucky in many ways to live here, despite the shortcomings.

But I'm still going to speak my mind about my issues with the US domestic and foreign policy... despite US nationalists saying "If you don't like it, then leave!"

 

[Twentyfirst]

29 minutes ago, Emerald said:

 

But I'm still going to speak my mind about my issues with the US domestic and foreign policy... despite US nationalists saying "If you don't like it, then leave!"

 

I say it the opposite way. If you really like America then leave because it's not as advertised 

Carry on  

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

And this development of dominance comes about through geographic factors and greater access to specific resources at earlier points in human history, which have enabled certain imperial powers to curtail the developmental potential of certain countries and peoples which has a cascading effect into modern day in our current geopolitical climate.

And it is an unfortunate developmental phase that humanity goes through. But we likely won't be rid of it in our lifetimes.

And I admit that I am on the receiving end of the benefits of said imperialism. My life is better because other people's lives are worse even though that's a bitter pill for me because I value mercy.

What seems to be the case is that the United States has taken on the leading role of being the shield against communism in the world, and to do so it had to be interventionist, but the problem is that once this threat has disappeared it has continued to be interventionist, but for much less altruistic reasons. In fact, for miserable reasons, like when Saint Obama destroyed Libya because Gaddafi got closer to China.

Today  United States still is bulling and its bullying has the sole purpose of increasing its wealth by limiting that of others. This is not what you would call a very noble attitude. 

Look at the attitude of the horrible Chinese dictators in Africa: creating infrastructure to enrich the countries where they intervene and thus have them as clients, versus stealing their resources and fomenting wars. The US has been a big son of a bitch, that's the reality. Power corrupts, we are all human, but enough is enough.

Edited 6 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[PurpleTree]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

I'm not saying that all countries with a barbarous foreign policy necessarily create better situations for the populace of the country. That's highly dependent upon how the relationship between the government and the people is structured.

What I am saying is that a nation being powerful and imperialistic tends to be the unfortunate scaffolding that creates the abundance necessary for the populace to take their focus off of surviving and onto more achievement-based and self-actualization based pursuits that benefit their nation of origin.

And this gives the proper infrastructure and frees up more individual human potential to be utilized towards greater levels of autonomy and societal development... in terms of human rights, scientific advancements, technological advancements, and more emphasis on higher pursuits in general.

That said, if a government is very authoritarian towards its own people... that creates another survival concern that takes the populace's focus off off these pursuits. So, material abundance doesn't mitigate the issues of authoritarian rule.

And Canada was only given sovereign status from British rule back in the 80s. So, in very recent history, it was a colony of an imperial power. And it's still currently got the backing of the British military and NATO.

So, Canada is involved in imperialism... which is what I'm referring to as barbarism. And yes, it has conveyed benefits of abundance and first world status to Canada.

But that's not to say that Iran, North Korea, or Somalia are less barbarous.

The framework of the leaders in those nations are almost certainly less world unity focused than those in the most imperialistic nations with the highest levels of barbaric impact. So, you get a weird situation where the most paradigmatically developed up the spiral also create the most harm because they have more power.

So, those three nations you mentioned just don't have as much military power or resources as an imperial power. So, it's accurate to say that their barbarism isn't as wide-reaching as the barbarism in more powerful imperialist nations. It's more contained.

And they must ally themselves with more powerful imperialist nations to have more power.

For example, Saudi Arabia is allied with the United States. Somalia is also a US ally. And North Korea is an ally to China.

So, all of these nations do benefit somewhat from imperialism by connection to a greater military power.

And that does likely confer some material benefits to living there that countries with no imperialist allies don't have access to. And that does potentially set them up for a bump in societal infrastructure development which can take more of the survival burdens off the populace... which can enable higher levels of personal development. (authoritarianism not withstanding as that is a major blocker to human potential that doesn't directly relate to scarcity or the level of societal infrastructure.)

But people from poorer places (even in poorer places in wealthier nations) will tend to have a more conservative and "unkind to outsiders" kind of mentality because they are tuned into survival mode and feelings of scarcity. And authoritarian rulers will appeal most to people who are dealing with scarcity.

So, there tends to be a direct correlation between scarcity and parochial thinking. And parochial thinking tends to lead to a more disconnected and barbaric worldview.

But in the current state of the world, the way to alleviate your populace from the bounds of parochial thinking is to be a dominating force on the world stage.

This is what I mean by something growing out of its opposite. You can't have the flower without the dirt... at least at this juncture in time.

To me all that sounds quite ideological.

And not necessarily true.

Yes there was colonialism and so on and it’s part of the equation. There were empire everywhere. In Europe in Africa in Asia in Mexico and the Americas before the settlers.

But imo western countries got better living standards through innovation. You fail to mention that. 
 

The amount of innovation from some of the small European countries. The amount of nobel price laureates per capita. Japan for example was very colonial for a while. But imo they prospered mostly through innovation.

Can you name me countries that aren’t “barbarous”?

 

[blankisomeone]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am not going to respond to any more arguments about the West not being more developed. I'm done explaining this matter. Never again will I explain it. If you don't get it, good luck.

@Leo Gura make a 3 hour long video on this