How To Counter Group Think?

[Leo Gura]

17 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

But I feel like if @Leo Gura swapped places with me, he would be able to come to their senses. I feel like I had access to Leo's brain, I could make everyone in my proximity drop this right wing group think.

Dude, no. I don't and can't change people. I don't even try because it is impossible.

If a person's mind is closed, that's the end. I don't bother.

If you want to help people you need to first find the ones who are interested in change.

I can talk about the evils Trump or populism endlessly and it will not change our situation. These issues are too deep and too serious for talk.

Appreciate how precious an open mind is.

When a mob is riled up into madness of crowds they are like a stampede of elephants. They are lethal. Step back and walk away.

Edited 13 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Alexop]

19 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

Right now all my friends and family have been sold on the populist bandwagon. I'm in the center left politics wise. And when it comes to voting in an election, I can't convince anyone to vote for the most spirally developed candidate. As a Romanian, we had elections on 24 November 2024, that the Constitutional Court cancelled, In Romania there is a 2 round election system. If from all the candidates no one gets get in the first round 50%+1 of the votes then the elections progress in the second round where it is a grand finale between the first 2 placed candidates. And the court forfeited the elections because a populist candidate Calin Georgescu whom is a far right populist(Imagine Trump on steroids) won the elections. The court used the Russian Interference reason for cancelling the elections. And we have to redo the elections on May 2025. But the thing is that this candidate used short form tik toks to stir the most sympathy and in those tik toks he basically said everything Trump says. 

Leo once said in a blog post that we should become a candle. By that meaning that we should not sit passively and allow devilry, but we should what is in our power to shed light in the places that have become cloaked in the darkness.

The question is, How do I convince someone to vote for a centrist left candidate, here there was a lady like Kamala Harris, very hollow and sometimes she is unprepared on geopolitical minutiae, but she is very kind hearted and as a current mayor of a small city she transformed that city from the ground up in a positive way. But my friends tell me that she is a "bimbo" and "Stupid" and that she is a "marionette of Soros and Ursula von der Leyen" and that she will make everyone gay and transgender" They prefer this ultra degenerate Trump like figure because he promises BS populist greatness. Exactly like Trump but far more worse. You can't even imagine how "Great" Trump is compared to this guy. I couldn't convince even my parents to vote against this lunatic, they said that she is weak and pathetic and she is not with the Church. Therefore they loved this Trump like guy because all the priests were lobbying for him and that he said the word God every 10 words. Please I feel powerless and I have no counter arguments against people that are mesmerized by RW populists. I feel like I could spent 10 days straight trying to explain that this lady was a good choice and they'd still dismiss my points by saying that I've been paid by woke globalists to do lobbying for this lady.

If @Leo Gura sees this I would like him to do a blog posts on how to counter this group think madness. How do you take one away from the group think? How do I get someone out of this Right Wing ideology?  I feel so powerless..

I am also romanian so I know your struggle. Many romanians feel wounded and betrayed, but they dont want to accept that the biggest traitors were actually themselves, romanians stole form other romanians, it is not the West that fucked the country, it is romanians themselves influenced by broken communist legacy from Russia. As most people are still stage Blue, they want to believe that their nation is amazing, and for sure there is someone else who fucked the country, so they bite the bait of those populist cons like Calin Georgescu or Simion. Elena Lasconi is quite conservative and unprepared but her party could help and train her. Not even her was conservative enough for the uneducated rats.

In conclusion, accept them as they are. In case of those who are open to change, slowly show them the light.  It is completely normal what happens In Romania keeping in mind the level of frustration and low education of most people. Try to avoid political subjects and find common ground, joke, laugh, have fun. 

Otherwise, come to Sweden, we have a free room in our house. Even is this "progressive heaven" people are still complaining and moaning all the time. Even the leftists still annoy me with their tunnel vison and idealism,  Maybe you would have fun talking politics with the leftists here but if you are very serious about understanding reality, you will notice how full of shit they also are. Politics is not for the average people, it requires so much information and knowledge that it is amazing how well our democracies function keeping in mind that every adult can influence it through vote.

Personally, I can't cope with the disastrous infrastructure in Romania, and that will take decades to fix no matter who is rulling .Good 🤞luck

Edited 11 hours ago by Alexop

[Staples]

Jesus got killed for trying to teach people forgiveness and compassion.

Best you can do is discover the most conscious mode of being you can muster and lead by example.

[PurpleTree]

You can’t argue with ideological group think people imo.

They are like donkeys. Although donkeys are nicer.

[Alexop]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

You can’t argue with ideological group think people imo.

They are like donkeys. Although donkeys are nicer.

They give up truth for feeling loved and a part of a community.

Edited 7 hours ago by Alexop

[Salvijus]

18 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

. People are always influenced by someone, there is no such thing as independent thinking. I think that we all are influenced, some by higher consciousness sources some by lower and dysfunctional ones.

That's actually a beautiful insight. I wonder how many people would still hold the same opinion as they hold now, if they were the only person left on the planet who believes that. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Salvijus

[Daniel Balan]

35 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

That's actually a beautiful insight. I wonder how many people would still hold the same opinion as they hold now, if they were the only person left on the planet who believes that. 

Spot on. I am mature enough to realize that I am a sheep, The only reason I have the political agenda that I have is because of Leo! I am not fooling myself into thinking that I know the truth. The only reason I hate Trumpism is because of Leo said so. I am 100% certain that if Leo had sided with Trump and RW populism I would have done the same. The reason being that I realize that I am stupid AF and I recognized Leo's mind as being light years ahead of mine developmental wise. I admit that if I was left on my own I may have very well been captured by the group think. But I've been lucky to encounter along the way people way smarter than I am. I just chose to be brainwashed by Leo, instead of Joe Rogan and Alex Jones. That is the only difference between me and the average Joe. 

[Daniel Balan]

7 hours ago, Alexop said:

I am also romanian so I know your struggle. Many romanians feel wounded and betrayed, but they dont want to accept that the biggest traitors were actually themselves, romanians stole form other romanians, it is not the West that fucked the country, it is romanians themselves influenced by broken communist legacy from Russia. As most people are still stage Blue, they want to believe that their nation is amazing, and for sure there is someone else who fucked the country, so they bite the bait of those populist cons like Calin Georgescu or Simion. Elena Lasconi is quite conservative and unprepared but her party could help and train her. Not even her was conservative enough for the uneducated rats.

In conclusion, accept them as they are. In case of those who are open to change, slowly show them the light.  It is completely normal what happens In Romania keeping in mind the level of frustration and low education of most people. Try to avoid political subjects and find common ground, joke, laugh, have fun. 

Otherwise, come to Sweden, we have a free room in our house. Even is this "progressive heaven" people are still complaining and moaning all the time. Even the leftists still annoy me with their tunnel vison and idealism,  Maybe you would have fun talking politics with the leftists here but if you are very serious about understanding reality, you will notice how full of shit they also are. Politics is not for the average people, it requires so much information and knowledge that it is amazing how well our democracies function keeping in mind that every adult can influence it through vote.

Personally, I can't cope with the disastrous infrastructure in Romania, and that will take decades to fix no matter who is rulling .Good 🤞luck

Cheers Brother! So happy seeing fellow countrymen on the forum. I've also been to Germany for work, to the Netherlands and Italy. And I've come to the conclusion that as the most Christian nation in Europe, we are one of the most wicked, corrupt, evil and barbaric people in Europe. Right now I have 0 friends. When I was younger I had maybe over 50 friends, but as I started to grow up and mature, I cut ties with everyone. Man the levels of evil and selfishness here is through the roof. Here if you don't have balls and if people don't fear you physically you are eaten alive. If there would be a picture in the dictionary for the expression "Dog eats dog" it would have been a picture of Romania. You said people are stage blue... No friend. Maybe in the cities, I live in the rural areas and here at best people are red. When I've watched the stage red video, in my mind as Leo was speaking I was saying: That exact behaviour is resembling my co-workers, my parents, my relatives, my friends, our politicians and so on. I think Romania is far from a blue center of gravity. Here people are even exhibiting strong stage purple behaviour coupled with the stage red which In my book defines us as a nation, also coupled with a outer layer of stage blue coating. After all there was a reason why someone like Andrew Tate choose to come here to run his businesses.

[The Crocodile]

I love this group discussion!

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

Spot on. I am mature enough to realize that I am a sheep, The only reason I have the political agenda that I have is because of Leo! I am not fooling myself into thinking that I know the truth. The only reason I hate Trumpism is because of Leo said so. I am 100% certain that if Leo had sided with Trump and RW populism I would have done the same. The reason being that I realize that I am stupid AF and I recognized Leo's mind as being light years ahead of mine developmental wise. I admit that if I was left on my own I may have very well been captured by the group think. But I've been lucky to encounter along the way people way smarter than I am. I just chose to be brainwashed by Leo, instead of Joe Rogan and Alex Jones. That is the only difference between me and the average Joe. 

That's beautiful honesty. 

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

Cheers Brother! So happy seeing fellow countrymen on the forum. I've also been to Germany for work, to the Netherlands and Italy. And I've come to the conclusion that as the most Christian nation in Europe, we are one of the most wicked, corrupt, evil and barbaric people in Europe. Right now I have 0 friends. When I was younger I had maybe over 50 friends, but as I started to grow up and mature, I cut ties with everyone. Man the levels of evil and selfishness here is through the roof. Here if you don't have balls and if people don't fear you physically you are eaten alive. If there would be a picture in the dictionary for the expression "Dog eats dog" it would have been a picture of Romania. You said people are stage blue... No friend. Maybe in the cities, I live in the rural areas and here at best people are red. When I've watched the stage red video, in my mind as Leo was speaking I was saying: That exact behaviour is resembling my co-workers, my parents, my relatives, my friends, our politicians and so on. I think Romania is far from a blue center of gravity. Here people are even exhibiting strong stage purple behaviour coupled with the stage red which In my book defines us as a nation, also coupled with a outer layer of stage blue coating. After all there was a reason why someone like Andrew Tate choose to come here to run his businesses.

Damn

[Thought Art]

Lies lies lies. The information ecosystem is spackled with lies lies lies. 

Half baked thinking assumptions self deceptions and lies. Your wrong. Their wrong. Your assumptions are disgusting.

The world will commit great evil and cruelty because of liars. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Thought Art

[Daniel Balan]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

Lies lies lies. The information ecosystem is lies lies lies. 

Half baked thinking assumptions self descriptions and lies. Your wrong. Their wrong. Your assumptions are disgusting.

I don't understand. What's this supposed to mean?

[Daniel Balan]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Dude, no. I don't and can't change people. I don't even try because it is impossible.

If a person's mind is closed, that's the end. I don't bother.

If you want to help people you need to first find the ones who are interested in change.

I can talk about the evils Trump or populism endlessly and it will not change our situation. These issues are too deep and too serious for talk.

Appreciate how precious an open mind is.

When a mob is riled up into madness of crowds they are like a stampede of elephants. They are lethal. Step back and walk away.

But could you answer me why I subconsciously decided to adopt your political rhetoric instead that of Alex Jones and Joe Rogan? Why a stage red individual as myself would have decided that your reasoning is more truthful and developed than that of the ones that spread RW propaganda. If you could answer me that, maybe we would find the reason why the average Joe has decided to view as authority the likes of Jones and Musk instead of people like you. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Daniel Balan

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

But could you answer me why I subconsciously decided to adopt your political rhetoric instead that of Alex Jones and Joe Rogan? Why a stage red individual as myself would have decided that your reasoning is more truthful and developed than that of the ones that spread RW propaganda. If you could answer me that, maybe we would find the reason why the average Joe has decided to view as authority the likes of Jones and Musk instead of people like you. 

That's such a beautiful question to contemplate. Wow

[Alexop]

52 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Cheers Brother! So happy seeing fellow countrymen on the forum. I've also been to Germany for work, to the Netherlands and Italy. And I've come to the conclusion that as the most Christian nation in Europe, we are one of the most wicked, corrupt, evil and barbaric people in Europe. Right now I have 0 friends. When I was younger I had maybe over 50 friends, but as I started to grow up and mature, I cut ties with everyone. Man the levels of evil and selfishness here is through the roof. Here if you don't have balls and if people don't fear you physically you are eaten alive. If there would be a picture in the dictionary for the expression "Dog eats dog" it would have been a picture of Romania. You said people are stage blue... No friend. Maybe in the cities, I live in the rural areas and here at best people are red. When I've watched the stage red video, in my mind as Leo was speaking I was saying: That exact behaviour is resembling my co-workers, my parents, my relatives, my friends, our politicians and so on. I think Romania is far from a blue center of gravity. Here people are even exhibiting strong stage purple behaviour coupled with the stage red which In my book defines us as a nation, also coupled with a outer layer of stage blue coating. After all there was a reason why someone like Andrew Tate choose to come here to run his businesses.

I am very sad to hear that man! I did not have such a bad experience but I see your point. Romanian countryside, especially the south and east, is a whole other thing, it is Africa, or even worse from some points of view. 

I had the luck to have rich parents and grow up in the city, but I met many from the countryside and some feel like they grew up in the caves.

I did not have patience to read all the thread but If you live with your parents in a remote area, it is best to leave as soon as possible.

[Thought Art]

@Daniel Balan It means there is so much noise online right now that what’s true is distorted. We are all wrong about a lot of things. 
 

There are people who are more accurate than others but figuring that out and navigating it requires being insolâtes from group think.

[Daniel Balan]

@Alexop Thanks for the responses! It made me very happy to share thoughts with you! Thank you for the advice!

[Daniel Balan]

@Thought Art We are all wrong. Yet some are more wrong than others. And even yet, everyone is right when it comes to their own survival. What makes one survive is therefore correct from their POV.

[integral]

Convince them to study epistemology. 😭

[Thought Art]

@Daniel Balan I am not convinced everyone is right from their own perspective. Are they acting from good intentions? Sure. But Right? I don't think so.

They may be right that petting a moose is fun until it crushes their skull with it's hoofs.