Should I leave Mexico?

[The Crocodile]

1 hour ago, Basman said:

Most if not all hard drugs have no genuine and wholesome use and are a net negative to society in my opinion and we would be better of without them.

Of course.

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Legalizing these drugs will only serve to engender their use and the deterioration of the community.

No, most of the effects to the community you associate with them are just because they're illegal.

1 hour ago, Basman said:

The drug cartels are essentially militant cults that undermine society through violence and exploitation. Its justified to combat it in a way that is of course legal depending on the severity of the situation, which you could argue that it isn't severe enough to justify a full-scale invasion but that isn't the only card on deck necessarily.

If the drug cartels continue to expand their corrosive influence and destabilize Latin-America than it'll be increasingly harder to justify inaction.

The legalization puts it out of business overnight, and the bloodshed in Mexico has no effect on drugs which can be manufactured in America, come from Canada--or end up coming through Mexico anyway just due to statistics. Also people should have the freedom to ingest what they want, even if it kills them.

[The Crocodile]

5 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

You missed my first point.

No, I didn't, it just didn't have to do with what we're talking about. Moving straight to that is not doable immediately at all.

[Basman]

1 minute ago, The Crocodile said:

people should have the freedom to ingest what they want, even if it kills them.

Then you shouldn't have a problem with discontinuing all health and food regulations.

3 minutes ago, The Crocodile said:

The legalization puts it out of business overnight, and the bloodshed in Mexico has no effect on drugs which can be manufactured in America, come from Canada--or end up coming through Mexico anyway just due to statistics.

The business of these cartels is primarily logistical. Its the transportation of illegal products that make these cartel so successful. Making drugs legal won't curb them. And since they are already selling, legalization will primarily serve to increase the supply and use of harmful drugs. There is no need to increase the supply of hard drugs.

10 minutes ago, The Crocodile said:

No, most of the effects to the community you associate with them are just because they're illegal.

You've never lost a close friend or family to an overdose, alcoholism or a drunk driver.

[The Crocodile]

3 minutes ago, Basman said:

Then you shouldn't have a problem with discontinuing all health and food regulations.

No, that would worsen the system, legalizing drugs would improve the system, get it?

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The business of these cartels is primarily logistical. Its the transportation of illegal products that make these cartel so successful. Making drugs legal won't curb them. And since they are already selling, legalization will primarily serve to increase the supply and use of harmful drugs. There is no need to increase the supply of hard drugs.

No, they would be put out of business by legitimate American businesses. This whole time I thought you understood the concept but just didn't agree with it, but you actually just didn't know.

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You've never lost a close friend or family to an overdose, alcoholism or a drunk driver.

I lost my uncle to alcoholism, doesn't mean alcohol should be illegal.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

You missed my first point. Why do people want hardcore drugs in the first place? I

Because people has that karma. they like them because when they try first time they felt connection, high, happiness. Because humans are not satisfied, not in love with themselves, are suffering. In the west, in the east and everywhere, but in west with lack. Then one day they try a drug and feel: shit, that's my thing, what I lacked. Alcohol is a hard drug too, for me it's shit, but people use it every day, they can't understand how it gets low them , an anesthesia to don't realize life

Edited yesterday at 12:28 AM by Breakingthewall

[Basman]

34 minutes ago, The Crocodile said:

No, that would worsen the system, legalizing drugs would improve the system, get it?

No, they would be put out of business by legitimate American businesses. This whole time I thought you understood the concept but just didn't agree with it, but you actually just didn't know.

I lost my uncle to alcoholism, doesn't mean alcohol should be illegal.

Legalization wouldn't put drug cartels out of business. The fall in prices would be offset by the increase in demand from the increase of supply. And it would be cheaper to export to boot.

The bottom line is that hard drugs are harmful and what you are essentially arguing for is increasing their supply and use. There is no evidence that legalization of hard drugs actually works but they do present serious dangers. Not taking those dangers and social costs serious in the name of freedom is painfully naive.

And this was really about the possibility of combating drug cartels in the first place. Again, legalization wouldn't positively effect their status as a terrorist organization from an American perspective. And either way, a cartel run Mexico undermines America in more ways than just drugs.

[The Crocodile]

Just now, Basman said:

Legalization wouldn't put drug cartels out of business. The fall in prices would be offset by the increase in demand from the increase of supply. And it would be cheaper to export to boot.

The bottom line is that hard drugs are harmful and what you are essentially arguing for is increasing their supply and use. There is no evidence that legalization of hard drugs actually works but they do present serious dangers. Not taking those dangers and social costs serious in the name of freedom is painfully naive.

And this was really about the possibility of combating drug cartels in the first place. Again, legalization wouldn't positively effect their status as a terrorist organization from an American perspective. And either way, a cartel run Mexico undermines America in more ways than just drugs.

just fear-based garbage and not a lick of truth or sense

[Twentyfirst]

57 minutes ago, Basman said:

And either way, a cartel run Mexico undermines America in more ways than just drugs.

How does it undermine America?

If Mexico doesn't go to war with their own cartels why should America?

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Because people has that karma. they like them because when they try first time they felt connection, high, happiness. Because humans are not satisfied, not in love with themselves, are suffering. In the west, in the east and everywhere, but in west with lack. Then one day they try a drug and feel: shit, that's my thing, what I lacked. Alcohol is a hard drug too, for me it's shit, but people use it every day, they can't understand how it gets low them , an anesthesia to don't realize life

That's why I said hardcore drugs. Everyone needs a vice but why choose something that will ruin your life like meth vs something that will still sedate you like weed. I think thats more of a problem than cartels giving people what they choose

If they legalize drugs then the USA pharmacy becomes the new cartel. So all you do is remove violence but cartels are only violent in the first place because its illegal and you need to be violent to move illegally 

It's probably better off to give super strict penalties for possessing small amounts. Like the death penalty for 1 small bag of meth. And if someone gets caught with it you sentence them to a much more lenient penalty. This way the people who were never that committed in the first place would never even attempt it and get addicted to it and the people that are really about it are gonna try it whether its legal or lenient or strict and they will get addicted 

Edited yesterday at 02:12 AM by Twentyfirst

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

That's why I said hardcore drugs. Everyone needs a vice but why choose something that will ruin your life like meth vs something that will still sedate you like weed. I think thats more of a problem than cartels giving people what they choose

If they legalize drugs then the USA pharmacy becomes the new cartel. So all you do is remove violence but cartels are only violent in the first place because its illegal and you need to be violent to move illegally 

Yes, the damage of violence is so spectacular and bloody, but it's very small in comparison with the silent damage that drugs cause. Drugs like methamphetamine, heroin, fentanyl and cocaine are destroying millions of lifes. 

There are people who, because of their character, feel an affinity for hard drugs, and this destroys them, whether these drugs are legal or illegal, it makes no difference. In any case, if it is legal, more will be consumed and more lives will be destroyed. It's like the business of gambling, it should be forbidden, because it's not a business it's an addiction used for some to stole money. If you want to gamble do out of law, same than drugs. Hard drugs will exist, criminals too, but the state shouldn't be a criminal and make money with them

Edited yesterday at 02:18 AM by Breakingthewall

[Basman]

11 hours ago, The Crocodile said:

just fear-based garbage and not a lick of truth or sense

You are yet to present any evidence of any of your proposed ideas being effective. You are clearly just being close minded.

[Breakingthewall]

Another interesting issue is tobacco. It is highly addictive, it provides absolutely no benefit and it kills, it leaves people disabled, it weakens, it collapses the health system, in short, it is completely negative and not positive at all, except as a business. In short, it should be prohibited, whoever wants tobacco should grow it at home or buy it from a dealer.

Drug trafficking is not so bad, it allows criminals to make money who would otherwise get it from robbery, kidnapping and murder. It is an underground economy that exists, and that will cease to exist when people stop demanding drugs, but what is not a solution, but madness, is to propose that the state trade in fentanyl and crocodile. This is not a possibility. Marihuana and psychedelics yes. Why? Because it has been shown that they provide benefits. Crocodile obviously not, the state cannot make a profit from a substance that makes the flesh fall off your body.