I want to argue against my Neo-Nazi Friends. Where do I start learning?

[UpperMaster]

Neo-Nazi ideology seems to be growing, and some of my friends have fallen deep into Nazi/White supremacist beliefs. They support Trump and have extreme right-wing views.

To be completely honest, I don't fully understand why Trump is considered bad, I’m clueless on that. I also feel lost when it comes to arguments about Black crime statistics. When my friends claim that Black people commit more crimes, that their culture is “bad,” or that they’re somehow “lazy” and failing in a developed country like America, I struggle to respond intelligently because I haven’t researched these topics deeply.

I’m also unsure about the issue of migrant crime statistics in Europe. These friends argue that “remigration” is the solution to everything, but I haven’t looked into this enough to counter their points effectively.

I want to argue against their ideology not just because I’ve been told it’s bad, but because I see the hypocrisy in their behavior. They criticize Black people for committing crimes, but then openly disregard the law themselves. They obsess over the “Great Replacement Theory”  and how Jews want to dominate the world and empower their race, yet they’re fine advocating for racial superiority of their own race.

This is personal to me because I’m not white. I’m tired of getting sent reels or having discussions about these racist topics. I can logically explain why I oppose their ideology (personal experiences, Colonialism etc), but they always bring up specific stats or arguments, and I don’t know enough to counter them properly.

It’s becoming a serious issue. These friends mean a lot to me (they are at heart excellent people), but they’re taking real world action based on these beliefs.

It really pisses me off when they send me racist reels, like, fuck no, it’s not funny to dehumanize Black people. I want to respond intelligently and properly so they can change their mind, but I need to understand truthfully the situation.

 

There's so much information about Trump, Fascism, Racism and politics in general. Where do I start learning about this? Let me know so I actually develop true insight and understanding? When I read things in the politics section in the forum I have absolutely zero context, so I am a political noob. 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

If you're serious about that, search through Destiny's body of work. He has done many breakdowns and debates with such people, deconstructing all their arguments point by point.

You will also see that the effort is fruitless, since such people will not change their dogmas.

Edited Monday at 10:35 PM by Leo Gura

[Raze]

Daryl Davis convinced klan members to change, try him.

[UpperMaster]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're serious about that, search through Destiny's body of work. He has done many breakdowns and debates with such people, deconstructing all their arguments point by point.

You will also see that the effort is fruitless, since such people will not change their dogmas.

 

Okay I will look through destiny's work. I hope I can dismantle my close friend's dogma's, were different races and were best friends. Best person I know when it comes to actually being a friend, super kind and reliable. I know its sounds so weird but Im serious.

 

At the least, I want to be able respond with well articulated responses, so it doesn't seem like I am on board with some of their ideas. 

Edited Monday at 11:05 PM by UpperMaster

[Leo Gura]

@UpperMaster Vaush also had debates with such racists. You can study those too. Although Destiny is more grounded.

[UpperMaster]

Another thing is, we are teenagers. A lot of people I see going into the nazi movement are really young, I hope they grow out of it.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, UpperMaster said:

lot of people I see going into the nazi movement are really young

Of course.

Only a young immature fool can find that worldview reasonable.

Did you watch my video from last week? I gave you a blueprint for how to understand that Nazism is a low perspective. That's all your best points of argument.

You could literally write a book deconstructing Nazism from that one video. That's the power of these teachings.

Edited yesterday at 12:32 AM by Leo Gura

[UpperMaster]

@Leo Gura Ok I will go through Vaush and Destiny. Are there any specific books or documentaries that you recommend maybe? 

btw thanks man, I'm very tired of being politically oblivious. 

Edited Monday at 11:14 PM by UpperMaster

[UpperMaster]

30 minutes ago, Raze said:

Daryl Davis convinced klan members to change, try him.

I completely forgot about him. Yea that's crazy. Like I said, I will try to debate, but I want to understand these issues for myself aswell.

Edited Monday at 11:16 PM by UpperMaster

[Leo Gura]

I will update my book list with lots of political books. But they are not directly about Nazism or racism.

[UpperMaster]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Did you watch my video from last week? I gave you a blueprint for how to understand that Nazism is a low perspective. That's all your best points of argument.

You could literally write a book deconstructing Nazism from that one video.

 

No I haven't yet, I had a bunch of exams. I will watch it now that I've got the time. 

I am currently trying to understand your  "How To Avoid Getting Scammed" video, I got to finish that first ahahaha. 

 

I'll get to it ASAP. Step by Step.

Edited Monday at 11:23 PM by UpperMaster

[Hojo]

Every human comes into the world in the exact same way with 0 mind. Ask them if they think black people come into the world inherently barbaric and somehow lazy at the same time.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Ask them if they think black people come into the world inherently barbaric and somehow lazy at the same time.

A baboon comes into the world inherently less intelligent than a human.

So a neo-Nazi will just point to that.

You assume that all humans are equal but a neo-Nazi rejects that assumption.

Edited yesterday at 12:33 AM by Leo Gura

[blankisomeone]

37 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Every human comes into the world in the exact same way with 0 mind.

We come into ancestral issues, we aren’t born clean slates

[Emerald]

@UpperMaster One thing that's important to realize about people who get swept up in these movements is that logically rebutting their views won't change anything. If logic would work on them in this avenue of thinking, they wouldn't have become Neo-Nazis in the first place.

So, you don't actually need to know any of the logical counter-arguments. This is why debate is nearly useless.

Becoming a Neo-Nazi (or getting engaged in any kind of hate group or cult group) is 100% emotional.

People typically seek out these groups as a salve for deeper feelings of inadequacy and loneliness. And the ideology help them feel connected to others in that group and gives them a target to scapegoat and play out their vulnerable feelings towards. They also get to feel superior solely on the basis of group identity... which is a way to avoid feelings of inferiority and shame.

And it's super common for people (especially young men) to get swept up in these types of movements.

So, I don't recommend going the logical route. And I don't recommend trying to talk them out of it. You could give them the BEST arguments ever, and they would just entrench themselves deeper. And they can even use that to extricate themselves from those outside of the group to further embed themselves in the group.

Instead, ask them personal questions from a space of genuine curiosity about what attracts them to these ideas to understand what it gives to them on an emotional level.

And just keep asking questions. This can help them start to unpack their own feelings that led them to these rabbit holes in the first place. A little bit of self-awareness goes a long way.

And given that you're not white and you're their friend, it would almost seem to me that they're bringing these topics up to you to try to get some kind of pushback or to try to resolve some cognitive dissonance with their worldview.

The moment you start making statements and arguing them out of it, you're just activating their mental gymnastics further.

But asking questions from a place of curiosity will give them space and have them searching themselves for answers. And that's where the unweaving can actually happen.

Edited 4 minutes ago by Emerald