Here’s an interesting perspective on intuition

[The Crocodile]

@RendHeaven

What Korean women look like when they're just being real.

[The Crocodile]

@Leo Gura

Watch this song all the way through and give it a review using actual points.

He's a philosopher too, maybe even a better philosopher.., than you. 

[Thought Art]

@RendHeaven Some Arabic music, Indian music and microtonal music… I believe it can uses tone/ intervals outside of the harmonic series no?

Edited 22 hours ago by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

You guys should check out Holistic Song writing. He wrote a book years back (and now has a solid library of courses) for modern song writing. 
 

I personally have grown to like a lot of modern pop music. 
 

I think generally a lot of people have a good taste in music. 
 

Just because you don’t like a type of music doesn’t mean people have shitty taste in music. 
 

Alex Grey shared some interesting models of types of art, almost similar to Spiral dynamics in that it’s a non-heirarchical model of art going from say, porn to, stage red music to high music that is visionary in nature. I think people with different culture and exposure to different influences develop different tastes. 

When Avicii first played this he got booed. Billions of views later….
 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Thought Art

[RendHeaven]

28 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@RendHeaven Some Arabic music, Indian music and microtonal music… I believe it can uses tone/ intervals outside of the harmonic series no?

Yes!

Which goes to show the relativity of hearing "beautiful harmonies" and assuming they are superior, good, or true.

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So even peeing is not immune from self-deception.

No way… I actually peed myself accidentally  while slowly waking up this morning. So embarrassing!

[Terell Kirby]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

awful rap.

@Leo Gura didn’t notice any rap songs on your actualized playlist. Are you a fan of the genre at all ?

[Beans]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

No way… I actually peed myself accidentally  while slowly waking up this morning. So embarrassing!

^^ joy cleaned it up though. 
of course I helped. Just a happy accident no need to shame yourself baby. 
I thought it was a little humorous to witness that. Not in a mocking manner or way. Though it just reminded me of my baby nephew and niece. No one enjoys an accidental wetting. Though it’s nice to get clean and comfortable again with someone who’s safe. 
just a little baby ^^ 

you’ll be alright my love. No one is upset with you, and we can always clean up together

[RendHeaven]

6 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

To tie this into the rest of the conversation, I think the punchline would be that if a normal human managed to hear this "alien music" using his dualistic biases and biological ears, he would struggle to make any sense of it.

It would feel like ugly gibberish since it directly threatens his preferred human musical sensemaking.

That is, unless the human were clever enough to understand his own limits.

If the human were able to question his own ideas of beauty, he may be open to levels of beauty/truth/resonance/cognition beyond his current grasp.

A concrete example of this was when I first heard Jacob Collier's Moon River 5 years ago, I struggled to enjoy it.

It felt like too much, especially at 3:48 and onwards. I wished he would've just kept it more unembellished because the unconventional musical decisions were just too difficult for me to follow.

I remember my gf at the time straight up said she hated it, despite knowing that Jacob is a certified genius. That "genius" label didn't mean anything to her because her ears intuitively rejected what it heard.

But in hindsight our judgement was like a child learning algebra deciding that Einstein must be full of shit because we "intuitively" didn't see any potential in the conclusions of his general relativity (of course, without having spent any time mulling over his equations)

Now I recognize that this work is a blinding ray of genius that staggers my mind to even attempt to comprehend.

The part at 3:48 to the end which I so disliked is now my favorite part.

This change in opinion came from my own maturity in musical understanding coupled with a detailed study of the following logic breakdown video.

This example is a watered-down microcosm of Human mind interacting with Alien/MIND.

When a human finds something aesthetically distasteful, it can be genuine (from above) or ignorant (from below).

The difference is tricky to tell apart, since the ignorant judge loves to see himself as genuine.

The answer is in lots of study and experience + having the flexibility to pinpoint the beauty in absolutely anything.

The latter bulletproofs you against ignorantly declaring something you don't understand as ugly.

[lostingenosmaze]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Why do so many humans like such shitty music though???

It's like what you said about politics: it's all memes and vibes baby:

Here's something I unironically listen to now and then, from beginning to end. Literally hilarious to me, and it's only just from seeing how normies hate it lmao.

Not to mention how in the shortform content space "shitty music" can get pushed hard solely off hitting the right mood and context aka being a "good meme":

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by lostingenosmaze

[Salvijus]

Modulating to G half sharp lol. 

[lostingenosmaze]

@RendHeaven I appreciate your posts. It's helping making alot sense with how I personally enjoy music in ways I couldn't articulate myself, especially with the part of how tastes can get entangled with human culture. Like you said, it's hard to figure out why people like certain kinds of music, and the different kinds of music rabbit holes and niches you could get into can get infinitely deep, which is why I tend to take the open-absurdist approach to it all. So far I'm enjoying my time in the melancholy-hyperpop/tinnitus-inducing-breakcore/cute-earbleach-tier-YTPMV space.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, RendHeaven said:

 

 

Very beautiful for something I don't typically listen to, I wish I had the experience to appreciate it more

[Sugarcoat]

Intuition in terms of what direction in life to take tends to be connected to what feels expansive for us. So it feels more true because it’s aligned with our newer higher selves vs the old . 

[r0ckyreed]

@Leo Gura I made a slight connection between intuition and insight. When I watched your insight video, you gave us homework, and there was one question that stood out to me. The question was: “is there such a thing as false insight? If so, how is it different from a true insight? Is it possible to fool myself with an insight?” Initially, my thought process was that if it is an insight, then it is true and can never wrong. I don’t fool myself with insights but with delusions that I mistake for insights. This is kind of how I think of intuition as well. If it turns out that your insight was wrong, then you really didn’t have an insight, a true understanding. I apply that same logic to intuition. I am trying to differentiate insight and intuition. I would say that intuition is a specific form of insight that goes beyond conscious reasoning whereas insights in general can come from logic or intuitive sources.

Of course, the ultimate question is how do we distinguish between true insight/intuition vs delusion. That is the main puzzle. I would agree that any thought that we have, we need to test it and question it. The thought may appear to be a profound insight and intuition, but it may in fact be delusion. This has been the question I have been having about your awakenings.
 

You seem to suggest that your awakenings are somehow more certain than insight/intuition. But I think that awakenings are also subject to being delusions no matter how convincing or certain they may seem. You could take DMT or talk to God yourself during an NDE, but you can always doubt it. But at what point does skepticism become an obstacle? The methods for discerning truth are never full proof. I would say that truthful questioning is the method. I have to introspect and question whether the insight I have is an actual true insight vs deception.

Your method for testing intuition may not be applicable to the deepest awakenings. How would you test your awakenings? At some point, I would think there is an understanding so fundamental that it couldn’t be tested.

Edited 16 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[RendHeaven]

50 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

At some point, I would think there is an understanding so fundamental that it couldn’t be tested.

Yes.

The rule of thumb I use for myself is:

If it is patently & obviously INFINITY, then doubt is obliterated - drowned out in the suffocating Truth of Omnipresence. You physically cannot doubt something that is Eternally and Unconditionally HERE. Kind of like how you can't inhale air underwater.

On the other hand, if we are dealing with anything less than INFINITY, then doubt is always active. Any finite object of contemplation is fallible and has alternate valid perspectives to consider. Refrain from drawing finalized conclusions regarding finite/relative matters.

[Leo Gura]

Infinity/God/Consciousness is not a conceptual matter. It's more fundamental than perception.

[The Crocodile]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's more than that though.

People like really weird stuff like trashy heavy metal, awful rap, punk, dubstep, etc.

It's not a wonder you can't handle that stuff. From your playlist it seems like you're just getting used to listening to anything at all.

You could do a Leo's Music Challenge where 

You may have noticed that I share a some music I listen to on this blog, a lot of stuff wrapped up into a playlist.

In my effort to gain a deep understanding of global music and mankind, I’ve come to realize that I just don’t have enough raw experience of how people experience music in all the corners of the earth. There’s just a lack of data in my soul. There are some genres of music which I didn’t even know exist, never mind knowing their living conditions and culture. So I’ve come up with a challenge to address this lack of awareness. The challenge is to listen to at least one album about each genre on the planet over the next 2 years, at a rate of 2 albums per week. There are 1,000 to 1,500 genres of music in the world. Most people don’t even know more than a few of them. I am taking on this challenge. And I will be starting with the most obscure and least-known genres and working my way towards the most-known genres, one album at a time. I am especially interested in learning about each genre’s soundscapes, atmosphere, culture, lifestyle, level of development, political situation, style of musicianship, meaning, and sanity level. I am especially interested in the least developed and most obscure genres.

I encourage you to take this challenge with me. Imagine how much deeper your understanding of the world will be 2 years from now if you complete this challenge. All you have to do is listen to two albums per week for 2 years.

Edited 14 hours ago by The Crocodile

[Value]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Very cool.

I once had a guy who worked for me who had perfect pitch. He was a natural musician.

I was actually thinking of getting into making music, although I have zero experience.

- - - - -

The diversity of taste is indeed a mystery.

@Leo Gura I got that too actually. But for I didn't have it 100% for free, had to memorize the pitches actively for awhile until they stuck and became immediately recognizable like how you would perceieve a syllable of speech.

Edited 13 hours ago by Value

[Davino]

14 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

I began learning piano at age 3 and violin at age 4.

As a teenager I was part of the most grueling program in the Chicago youth symphony orchestra, and performed in Chicago's famed Symphony Hall.

I was an A-student in AP music theory in early highschool and was paid as a teaching assistant for music theory during university.

I have spent close to a decade contemplating tonal harmony. I have watched all 13+ hours of Berstein's Norton Lectures 3-times over.

My best friend is a jazz pianist with rare improv talent, and he is an Actualized.org enjoyer as am I. This topic is our bread and butter.

Unless you are a professor or a freak, I guarantee I have a better understanding of this terrain than you.

You say "there is science to it" as if I haven't spent the last 10 years crunching the numbers in-person.

I can backwards engineer and mathematically justify every note of our equal temperament 12-tone scale system. I have memorized the wavelength ratios of all intervals. And even after all of that, harmonic beauty is a mystery to me.

It is totally arbitrary that a perfect fifth should sound any more pleasing than a minor second.

The science you point to rests on the assumption that certain tones sound better. The pleasing sound is taken for granted.

It is pure bias.

Absolutely epic message bro. That was hilarious and brilliant to read.

Thanks for the playlist, I'm trying to build some musical literacy. One day I'll play the piano. There's something about music that calls me deeper, I feel that seed hidden inside me that one day will find its place and deserved glory.

[Davino]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What kind of music do aliens listen to?

Contemplate!

A thunderstorm popped in my Mind