Here’s an interesting perspective on intuition

[The Crocodile]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your AI is niether bold nor clever nor crazy enough to equal me. That's why AI will never replace me.

Look, he's defending you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wvSNG9jiVimqJ7HeX_bpZ_iruLF_sAsF/view?usp=share_link

[integral]

On 1/17/2025 at 11:38 AM, r0ckyreed said:

Leo says intuition can be wrong and it is important to question intuition and test it.

One of the most important chess lessons that you immediately learn is that the ideas that pop into your mind (intuition) when you actually play them on the board they're nearly always wrong.

The opponent immediately will show you why you're intuition was wrong.

Chess is a closed system and the board hammers you irrefutably.

There is no room for bullshitting. You lose the game it's over, therefore your intuition is wrong.

So you learn to use intuition as a guide and then verify and test your intuition through deep thinking and contemplation before making your move.

It's only after years of effort and learning and practicing the correct way of thinking that your intuition begins to be good.

Your intuition is only good within the domain that you have massive experience and put a massive amount of effort into.

Intuition is based on your current models of reality. It's not a magical mystical thing.

You need to work hard to discover, build and internalize accurate models. 

The problem is in the real world your intuition is never challenged. So you can believe the Earth is flat and it'll have no impact on your survival.

Edited Saturday at 11:29 PM by integral

[integral]

3 minutes ago, The Crocodile said:

Look, he's defending you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wvSNG9jiVimqJ7HeX_bpZ_iruLF_sAsF/view?usp=share_link

Wow this is fantastic what app are you using? 😆Im going to make a twitch e-boy leo with this.

[The Crocodile]

1 minute ago, integral said:

Wow this is fantastic what app are you using? 😆Im going to make a twitch e-boy leo with this.

My brother set it up for me using Shapes Inc.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 hours ago, integral said:

One of the most important chess lessons that you immediately learn is that the ideas that pop into your mind (intuition) when you actually play them on the board they're nearly always wrong.

The opponent immediately will show you why you're intuition was wrong.

Chess is a closed system and the board hammers you irrefutably.

There is no room for bullshitting. You lose the game it's over, therefore your intuition is wrong.

So you learn to use intuition as a guide and then verify and test your intuition through deep thinking and contemplation before making your move.

It's only after years of effort and learning and practicing the correct way of thinking that your intuition begins to be good.

Your intuition is only good within the domain that you have massive experience and put a massive amount of effort into.

Intuition is based on your current models of reality. It's not a magical mystical thing.

You need to work hard to discover, build and internalize accurate models. 

The problem is in the real world your intuition is never challenged. So you can believe the Earth is flat and it'll have no impact on your survival.

Yes, great analogy!!

[Salvijus]

7 hours ago, integral said:

One of the most important chess lessons that you immediately learn is that the ideas that pop into your mind (intuition) when you actually play them on the board they're nearly always wrong.

Intuition is something that you know without the use of analitical mind. Absolutely every decision in chess is made with the use of analitical mind. It's just that in some decisions you have more confidence than the others (based on analitical factors and past memories) and you call that confidence intuition. That's not intuition. 

Edited Sunday at 06:20 AM by Salvijus

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Intuition is something that you know without the use of analitical mind. Absolutely every decision in chess is made with the use of analitical mind. It's just that in some decisions you have more confidence than the others (based on analitical factors and past memories) and you call that confidence intuition. That's not intuition. 

No. When you see patterns in chess a thousand times, eventually, they reveal themselves without analysis or trying to see them. That recognition of the patterns is the result of unconscious processing, not analysis. Go watch how the worlds best players mind’s work and how fast they operate. There’s no way they could analyze that fast. They rely on previously acquired patterns much more than analysis. That’s why Magnus Carlson can play 25 other players who take 10 minutes per move and Magnus only needs 3-5 seconds. He’s not analyzing orders of magnitude faster. His pattern recognition is orders of magnitude better as a result of previous analysis and high intuition, not analysis in the moment. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Joshe said:

No. When you see patterns in chess a thousand times, eventually, they reveal themselves without analysis or trying to see them. That recognition of the patterns is the result of unconscious processing, not analysis. Go watch how the worlds best players mind’s work and how fast they operate. There’s no way they could analyze that fast. They rely on previously acquired patterns much more than analysis. That’s why Magnus Carlson can play 25 other players who take 10 minutes per move and Magnus only needs 3-5 seconds. He’s not analyzing orders of magnitude faster. His pattern recognition is orders of magnitude better as a result of previous analysis and high intuition, not analysis in the moment. 

Yuppp.

That's how I am with epistemology.

Epistemology is just the Devil's chess.

Edited Sunday at 07:46 AM by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

No. When you see patterns in chess a thousand times, eventually, they reveal themselves without analysis or trying to see them. That recognition of the patterns is the result of unconscious processing, not analysis.

Fast pattern recognition is not intuition. It's just another form of mental analysis. 

Edited Sunday at 08:20 AM by Salvijus

[Joshe]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yuppp.

That's how I am with epistemology.

Epistemology is just the Devil's chess.

Haha. Intuition does have a mysterious quality to it though. Even with the same level of cognitive development and training, two people can progress at different rates in a skill if one has more developed pattern recognition. I think this might relate to higher consciousness or a heightened perception, though I’m not entirely sure. Additionally, an almost compulsive drive to deeply understand the subject plays a big role. When someone possesses heightened perception AND a strong, obsessive need to understand a thing, that’s when it becomes a gift. You have it with epistemology because that’s your focus, Magnus has it with chess because it’s his, and I have it with reading people because it’s where I’ve focused. It’s very interesting. 

[Joshe]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Unconscious processing is still analysis. Just a very fast one. Not intuition. 

I’ll have to think on that. It’s an interesting idea. 

[integral]

8 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Fast pattern recognition is not intuition. It's just another form of mental analysis. 

You're thinking of intuition as direct download from source. In practice it just doesn't work this way, your intuition that you think you're downloading from source is wrong at everything, especially politics, it's just the easiest trap that spiritual people fall for. Gurus give bad advice all the time, because they cant see the idealism in it and there followers are non the wiser. Even SadGuru has terrible politics, it's shocking. (voted for trump)

It is extremely easy to fool yourself into thinking your intuition is true. Because it all fits nicely Within a bubble. So you can believe a malnutrition form of veganism is 100% true and then sell millions of books on the topic, and you would still be dead wrong.

An open system is designed to encourage all your wrong intuition, to promote it, to reward you for it, that's the heart of this work and why it's so difficult.

You can make millions being dead wrong. You can become the president of the United States, in fact it's mandatory that your models of reality are to worship the devil, because the devil rewards you.

If you were never reward for being wrong this work would be effortless.

Edited Sunday at 04:17 PM by integral

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, integral said:

You're thinking of intuition as direct download from source. In practice it just doesn't work this way, your intuition that you think you're downloading from source is wrong at everything, especially politics, it's just the easiest trap that spiritual people fall for. Gurus give bad advice all the time, because they cant see the idealism in it and there followers are non the wiser. Even SadGuru has terrible politics, it's shocking. (voted for trump)

It is extremely easy to fool yourself into thinking your intuition is true. Because it all fits nicely Within a bubble. So you can believe a malnutrition form of veganism is 100% true and then sell millions of books on the topic, and you would still be dead wrong.

An open system is designed to encourage all your wrong intuition, to promote it, to reward you for it, that's the heart of this work and why it's so difficult.

You can make millions being dead wrong. You can become the president of the United States, in fact it's mandatory that your models of reality are to worship the devil, because the devil rewards you.

If you were never reward for being wrong this work would be effortless.

Let me know when you've constructed a proper argument to any of my points. 

Edited Sunday at 04:56 PM by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Intuition is as certain as the knowledge when a note is out of tune. If you're tone-deaf, all musical notes will make no difference to you. When your discernment is sharp, the slightless variation of out of tune note will be jarring to your entire system. That's the power of knowing things by energetic resonance and there's no intellectual analysis involved in it. Energy never lies. 

 

Edited Sunday at 05:50 PM by Salvijus

[integral]

46 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Intuition is as certain as the knowledge when a note is out of tune. If you're tone-deaf, all musical notes will make no difference to you. When your discernment is sharp, the slightless variation of out of tune note will be jarring to your entire system. That's the power of knowing things by energetic resonance and there's no intellectual analysis involved in it. Energy never lies. 

People with perfect pitch have internalized a model of Music and Sound that gives them sharp discernment. They developed that model through luck during childhood and any other genetic advantages or hard work and training later on in life.

Their intuition was developed.

AI chatgpt is raw intuition. Because it internalized all the world's data and then it guesses when you give it a question.

When you ask it to do some complicated math calculation and it gets it right it's literally guessing with raw insane degrees of math intuition that it internalized through training. And sometimes it's wrong and sometimes it's right but it's pretty impressive either way.

And on the topic of chess I didn't want to go into it because you're using intuition to assess something that you have no experience with. And your intuition was wrong, and people pointed it out. I already explained the difference between intuition and contemplation in my post. But you misunderstood what I wrote as intuition being a type of analysis where I specifically separated them between intuition and contemplation.

On top of all of that contemplation drastically improves the quality of all insights and thoughts. It's like prolonged circular feedback intuition when you just sit with a problem for a extended period of time.

Edited Sunday at 05:47 PM by integral

[integral]

Chatgpt is a pure intuition machine. It's insane that humans were able to build something with intuition, I'm pretty sure most people especially spiritually inclined believe their intuition is sacred in nature and only "they" the energetic entities have that ability.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, integral said:

Chatgpt is a pure intuition machine. 

How so? It's just a computing algorithm. It has zero intuition. 

Edited Sunday at 05:48 PM by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, integral said:

AI chatgpt is raw intuition. Because it internalized all the world's data and then it guesses when you give it a question.

When you ask it to do some complicated math calculation and it gets it right it's literally guessing 

Wtf are you smoking. 

Edited Sunday at 05:52 PM by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

To say ai has intuition is like saying a calcutor has intuition. 

[integral]

12 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Wtf are you smoking. 

15 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

How so? It's just a computing algorithm. It has zero intuition. 

AI is guessing, it doesn't do any calculation or any thinking. It doesn't know how to think. It says the first thing that pops into its "mind". 

If you ask it what's 100 + 101 it will guess. And most of the time it's right because it has really good intuition for math. It literally does no form of calculation. It doesn't do any kind of process of mathematics like the stuff we learned in school. It might decide to use a specific math equation to solve the problem but after it writes out the equation it will then guess what the final answer is, instead of actually using a calculator.

It does nothing in steps. It vomits out the first thing thats "probably" true.

The difference between human intuition and chatgpt is very unclear. You would have to do a lot of work to figure out the differences.

A calculator does not guess. LLMs guess. 

Edited Sunday at 06:04 PM by integral