Does chasing success require you to let go of truth? (I think so, partially.)

[UpperMaster]

I can think of two ways where chasing success requires you to let go of truth. 

1. When trying to achieve something difficult, near impossible, statistically unlikely, it seems that you have to hold on to self-belief no matter how delusional it seems. The reason I consider this letting go of truth is because if you were to do an honest assessment of whether or not you'll be successful the answer will be statistically no, and you'll derail yourself.
2. Believing that you are the maker of your life and taking full responsibility of the results you get in life is needed for mass success. If you were to look at it truthfully however, there are so many things that just aren't under your control. 

 

Bottom line - You have to be somewhat PRAGMATIC to be successful. Pragmatism is not aligned with truth.

 

Ps. I have no large experience dealing with success. I am writing this based on my experience listening to successful people. Please discuss.  

[Buck Edwards]

David Goggins. 

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, UpperMaster said:

1. Believing that you are the maker of your life and taking full responsibility of the results you get in life is needed for mass success. If you were to look at it truthfully however, there are so many things that just aren't under your control. 

 

Maybe true but how is this helping you build a success. It just sounds soooo....disempowering? You can run mental gymnatics on free will and determinism but the question is, "will it put bread on your table and feed your kids"? Its no wonder so many guys on this forum are stuck on armchair philosophy while unable to find a girl, a job and move on. There is an order to priorities in life and sometimes the success (whatever that constitutes) comes before chasing the ultimate truth. 

Practicing spirituality should not prevent you from pursuing success and success does not automatically mean abandoning your integrity and values. Success can mean having a decent career, regular income, a family, stable finances having your life in order and not lacking in the major areas that constitute a balanced life. Success doesn't have to mean swimming in cash, owning 10 houses and driving a Lambo, I'd say that's the opposite of success even, that's just a childish hedonism. 

So if you can achieve a life that you'll be proud of and help you die with a smile on your face while not completely sacrificing your soul....then that's the success you can pursue without getting yourself stuck on an armchair philosophy. 

 

Edited Friday at 12:43 PM by Michael569

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, Michael569 said:

Maybe true but how is this helping you build a success. It just sounds soooo....disempowering? You can run mental gymnatics on free will and determinism but the question is, "will it put bread on your table and feed your kids"? Its no wonder so many guys on this forum are stuck on armchair philosophy while unable to find a girl, a job and move on. There is an order to priorities in life and sometimes the success (whatever that constitutes) comes before chasing the ultimate truth. 

Practicing spirituality should not prevent you from pursuing success and success does not automatically mean abandoning your integrity and values. Success can mean having a decent career, regular income, having your life in order and not lacking in the major areas that constitute a balanced life. 

Well said. Will note this down in my journal. 

 

[Michael569]

@Buck Edwards glad it resonated

[WonderSeeker]

14 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

Bottom line - You have to be somewhat PRAGMATIC to be successful. Pragmatism is not aligned with truth.

Ah, sheit.

I used to think the same way.

And guess what? I didn't succeed.

Why do you assume truth is not practical?

Don't you need to practice something to access truth?

[Yimpa]

14 hours ago, Michael569 said:

"will it put bread on your table and feed your kids"?

I assumed you only posted in the Health sub forum… Glad to see you here!

Edited Saturday at 03:15 AM by Yimpa

[Michael569]

@Yimpa thanks  i do every now and then when i have something to contribute 

Edited Saturday at 10:58 AM by Michael569

[UpperMaster]

On 1/18/2025 at 2:41 AM, WonderSeeker said:

Ah, sheit.

I used to think the same way.

And guess what? I didn't succeed.

Why do you assume truth is not practical?

Don't you need to practice something to access truth?

 

Leo wrote a blog about pragmatism. Just because something works doesn't mean it's true. It's one of his best blogs. What Im not trying to say that truth isn't useful, I am saying that when trying to be successful you often must prioritize achieving success over investigating truth.

Take the black and white example of Free Will:

A pragmatist might say: "Who cares whether free will is real or not? Just assume you have it, it feels like you do, and it gets the job done, so go with it". To be fair, that's the right approach when trying to succeed. You can't be doing serious philisophical inquiry and build an amazing business at the same time. Its difficult. Reality isn't trivial. To understand it takes a long fucking time. So yes truth takes a back seat because giving a fuck about truth is just not resourceful in some cases.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/the-trap-of-pragmatism

 

Hope you get what I mean, if I misunderstood you let me know

[UpperMaster]

On 1/17/2025 at 1:37 PM, Michael569 said:

Maybe true but how is this helping you build a success. It just sounds soooo....disempowering? You can run mental gymnatics on free will and determinism but the question is, "will it put bread on your table and feed your kids"? Its no wonder so many guys on this forum are stuck on armchair philosophy while unable to find a girl, a job and move on. There is an order to priorities in life and sometimes the success (whatever that constitutes) comes before chasing the ultimate truth. 

 

I know it might sound disempowering but even these questions (free will etc) have to be asked when doing serious philosophical investigation. And your right in many cases it leads to armchair philosophy which is why I said its required to be pragmatic in this case so you can actually put your life together and " put bread on your table and feed your kids" regardless of what the truth is.