Ceasefire deal reached between Israel and Hamas

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The Jews weren’t displaced by middle easterner countries.  They were absorbed by the Zionists to increase the population which is actually one of the many disruptions of Zionism 

I don’t know if displaced is the correct term, maybe deported after Israel won the war is a more accurate description.

[Raze]

 

[Twentyfirst]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I don’t know if displaced is the correct term, maybe deported after Israel won the war is a more accurate description.

It just proves that Zionism is a lie. If Zionism was about saving European Jews from oppression why include middle eastern Jews which were perfectly safe and actually rooted in their own places 

[Twentyfirst]

@Lila9 if you really want the best for Jews know that they are better off as a minority in Palestine or back to diaspora 

Zionism hurts Jews Palestinians and the region 

 

[Hatfort]

17 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Just now, Lila9 said:

I see. But this land was a land, not a country. It’s not like Russia invading Ukraine. 

There were Arab natives in this land, of course, who were very reluctant to share it. Valid. But there are natives everywhere, in any place in the world. If the European Jews did the same in Africa, then there were other natives paying the price.
But if this was in Africa or any other place, then this was less justified because the connection of Jews to Africa is not as recent as their connection to Israel. 

Around 700000 Arabs were displaced during the 1948 war and the same amount of Middle Eastern Jews were displaced from their homes as well, so they are equal.

It was another place being decolonized from the British empire, as many more during that time. Unfortunatelly for them, instead of the native inhabitants receiving the land, it was decided by foreigners that it would be a Jewish ethnostate, in reparation of the wrongs done to them by the Nazis.

Palestinians didn't displace Arab Jews, it was the other way around. In an attempt to increase Jewish numbers, Zionists promoted the displacement of Arab Jews to Palestine too, as much as European Jews. Jews were living relatively well in Muslim areas, not everything would be perfect, but quite harmonious in general. Tensions arised when Zionists started killing Palestinians and stealing their land, which is not a surprise. If Muslims did that in any country of Europe, I'm sure hostility towards them would increase too. Which wouldn't make it okay, but the complete frame would have to be acknouwledged at least.

[Lila9]

1 minute ago, Hatfort said:

It was another place being decolonized from the British empire, as many more during that time. Unfortunatelly for them, instead of the native inhabitants receiving the land, it was decided by foreigners that it would be a Jewish ethnostate, in reparation of the wrongs done to them by the Nazis.

Palestinians didn't displace Arab Jews, it was the other way around. In an attempt to increase Jewish numbers, Zionists promoted the displacement of Arab Jews to Palestine too, as much as European Jews. Jews were living relatively well in Muslim areas, not everything would be perfect, but quite harmonious in general. Tensions arised when Zionists started killing Palestinians and stealing their land, which is not a surprise. If Muslims did that in any country of Europe, I'm sure hostility towards them would increase too. Which wouldn't make it okay, but the complete frame would have to be acknouwledged at least.

Yes, Palestinian Arabs didn’t directly displace Middle Eastern Jews but other Arabs did force them to leave and literally deported them. This cannot be denied. They lost their homes as well. 
It may have played to the European Jews Zionists agenda but it wasn’t necessary orchestrated by them. The war was between not only Palestinian Arabs and Jews but it also included other Arabs countries across Middle East and North Africa.

 

[Lila9]

@Hatfort

This is tragedy, undeniably to the Palestinian Arabs. But how can the European Jews could act otherwise? How could they build a state without offending anyone? Was it even possible?

[Hatfort]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Yes, Palestinian Arabs didn’t directly displace Middle Eastern Jews but other Arabs did force them to leave and literally deported them. This cannot be denied. They lost their homes as well. 
It may have played to the European Jews Zionists agenda but it wasn’t necessary orchestrated by them. The war was between not only Palestinian Arabs and Jews but it also included other Arabs countries across Middle East and North Africa.

Then again Palestinians paid the price for something they didn't do. Nope, Zionists needed to increase the Jewish numbers, and promoted the migration of all Arab Jews they could.

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

@Hatfort

This is tragedy, undeniably to the Palestinian Arabs. But how can the European Jews could act otherwise? How could they build a state without offending anyone? Was it even possible?

If Zionists want a land for Jews, that's not the Palestinian people's fault. Palestinians have the right to live in peace in their land, which has been broken. What has happened in Gaza last year is a shame for humanity, we have all seen it.

[Twentyfirst]

20 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

@Hatfort

This is tragedy, undeniably to the Palestinian Arabs. But how can the European Jews could act otherwise? How could they build a state without offending anyone? Was it even possible?

I think it was a bad idea for a few reasons. They went right in the middle of Arab neighbors so they were surrounded by all sides with threats of being pushed into the ocean. Geography wise it was a bad placement. Another reason is they didn’t think Palestinians would be so resistant. From the initial expelling to the hour long checkpoints today they were met with resistance every step of the way. They expected them to give up eventually. Another thing they didn’t consider was the demographics. Palestinians have big families and lots of kids. Another bad idea was not going to a country with much bigger land that could have been negotiated better. Like they could have bought some Midwest land in America and no American would have been affected and it would have helped both economies by working together 

It was a terrible idea. The only reason it’s gotten this far was because of American support, propaganda, the idiocy and ignorance of the international community, and some mistakes made by Palestinian leadership . It didn’t get this far because it’s a half good or good idea 

Edited Saturday at 06:56 PM by Twentyfirst

[Hatfort]

Back to the recent events, more on topic. The ceasefire is good because the ongoing slaughter should reduce significantly, hard to believe it will stop though. There should be a hostage exchange, good for them. But the conflict continues, I'm afraid. Zionists still want the whole land, and Palestinians don't want to leave it. Hamas has gained support for resisting, and the new generations of Israel are as moderate as Ben Gvir. They want to settle in Gaza as much as in the West Bank. This is not over.

[Twentyfirst]

17 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

Back to the recent events, more on topic. The ceasefire is good because the ongoing slaughter should reduce significantly, hard to believe it will stop though. There should be a hostage exchange, good for them. But the conflict continues, I'm afraid. Zionists still want the whole land, and Palestinians don't want to leave it. Hamas has gained support for resisting, and the new generations of Israel are as moderate as Ben Gvir. They want to settle in Gaza as much as in the West Bank. This is not over.

Who cares what the Zionists want? I’m pretty sure it’s just about done. They took it as far as they could and got nothing out of it 

[Nivsch]

19 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

Zionists still want the whole land

If you guys take a sector within Israel and decide it is "Israel" then don't be surprised when Israelis genenaralize hamas on Palestinians. If one wants to really be better than Israelis he should start with his own double standart.

Edited Saturday at 08:07 PM by Nivsch

[Hatfort]

12 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Who cares what the Zionists want? I’m pretty sure it’s just about done. They took it as far as they could and got nothing out of it 

They've destroyed all the infrastructure of Gaza and heavily decimated the Palestinian population, but it's true they haven't won. I don't know how things will unfold from this, but I don't see peace even in the short term. Israel has lost support worldwide, but is still backed by the US. We'll see, all eyes on Gaza.

[Twentyfirst]

33 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

They've destroyed all the infrastructure of Gaza and heavily decimated the Palestinian population, but it's true they haven't won. I don't know how things will unfold from this, but I don't see peace even in the short term. Israel has lost support worldwide, but is still backed by the US. We'll see, all eyes on Gaza.

I guess the next question is why don’t you see peace in the short term

[Hatfort]

1 minute ago, Twentyfirst said:

I guess the next question is why don’t you see peace in the short term

Gaza is still an open-air prison surrounded by the IDF, Hamas still exists, and it won't be in shortage of recruits after all that happened. The mutual hate has multiplied. Anything will trigger the other, it's a volatile situation.

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, Hatfort said:

Gaza is still an open-air prison surrounded by the IDF, Hamas still exists, and it won't be in shortage of recruits after all that happened. The mutual hate has multiplied. Anything will trigger the other, it's a volatile situation.

They just have to make a deal for a Palestinian state and it’s over forever. Or if they agree on taking steps to an irreversible path to a Palestinian state then it’s over even quicker 

[Leo Gura]

Someone explain to me how this deal will be any more than Israel getting its hostages back, and then back to bombing.

Why would Israel hold to any agreements once they get the hostages back?

They will just continue bombing and annexation of Gaza, but now Netanyahu will not have Israelis hating him over the hostages.

Edited Saturday at 10:57 PM by Leo Gura

[Raze]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Someone explain to me how this deal will be anymore than Israel getting its hostages back, and then back to bombing.

Why would Israel hold to any agreements once they get the hostages back?

They will just continue bombing and annexation of Gaza, but now Netanyahu will not have Israelis hating him over the hostages.

A lot of soldiers are exhausted and not showing up for duty. 
 

Quote

Last June, some units reported that just 60 percent were showing up. In November, unnamed Israel Defense Forces sources told media outlets there had been a 15 to 25 percent drop.

source: https://archive.ph/hC3VW

Getting the last of the hostages back in phase 2 requires the IDF fully withdraw, so they will be increasing risk if they come back after that because Hamas can plant more traps.

Trump also may not allow it because it can hurt his negotiations with the gulf states.

The finance minister seems to think the war will continue:

Quote

Gaza is destroyed and broken, uninhabitable, and it will remain so. Do not be impressed by the forced cries of joy of our enemies, this is an animalistic society which sanctifies death and dances on the ruins of its life. Very soon, we will erase their smile again and replace it with cries of grief and the wails of those who were left with nothing.

Source: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hjdnfitvyg

But the police minister doesn’t 

Quote

Unfortunately, the Prime Minister revealed this evening in his voice that Israel is not committing to returning to war. He said that *if* we have to go back to war, we will. In light of the fact that Hamas has not yet been defeated, it is clear that we must go back to war - and therefore this should not be conditional at all.

Source: https://x.com/itamarbengvir/status/1880692089358327888

 

Edited Saturday at 10:48 PM by Raze

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Raze said:

A lot of soldiers are exhausted and not showing up for duty.

So they get a nice break. Then back to the business of Zionizing Gaza.

Edited Saturday at 10:56 PM by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@Leo Gura  My old coworker would say that 3 times a day and it drove me nuts.