Ceasefire deal reached between Israel and Hamas

[Hatfort]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

How many years the Palestinian right to return lasts?

Will it ever expire as it was expired for Jews, as some believe? 

Where do you want to put the boundary? For now their right stands, these displacements are about 80 years old, it's not that far away in time and they have not returned before because they haven't been allowed, it has been and is an ongoing situation. Don't you agree? You wouldn't allow them?

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

And go back to Europe?

What about another land? Who wants to live surrounded of that hell?

4 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

would go back to what it was before Zionism. Probably a one state solution with majority Palestinian and minority Jew.

Are you serious? They would kill all the Jews. There is a lot of hate accumulated 

Edited Saturday at 05:13 PM by Breakingthewall

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

Where do you want to put the boundary? For now their right stands, these displacements are about 80 years old, it's not that far away in time and they have not returned before because they haven't been allowed, it has been and is an ongoing situation. Don't you agree? You wouldn't allow them?

I don’t know where to put the boundary, and this is why I am asking.

How many generations will their right last?

And at what cost does their right to return need to be actualized?

Jews were displaced 2,000 years ago from a land they had lived in for thousands of years, and people claim that they have completely lost their right to this land because it was 2,000 years ago. In what year precisely after the exile did Jews lose their right to this land? 

 

[Hatfort]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I don’t know where to put the boundary, and this is why I am asking.

How many generations will their right last?

And at what cost does their right to return need to be actualized?

Jews were displaced 2,000 years ago from a land they had lived in for thousands of years, and people claim that they have completely lost their right to this land because it was 2,000 years ago. In what year precisely after the exile did Jews lose their right to this land?

I told you that their right still stands, and it hasn't been exercised before because they haven't been allowed to. We are still talking about an 80-year timeframe, many closer, it's a person's lifetime, still easily trackable.

Of course I don't equate this to a 2000-year-old claim of a land that was inhabited. It was pure violent colonialism, the Palestinians were living there minding their businesses, getting out of the British empire, and the Zionists decided unilaterally to claim their land and get all Jews they could from the world to live in there, so they built their ethnostate. It was a slaughter and many Palestinians left as refugees. 2000-year-old episodes are not reasonable to ask for a land, directly responding to your question. Now relativize this all you want, why this yes, and why that no. I would call it common sense. So much shit has happened in the whole world in two millenniums, a lot was wrong, that's not an excuse to do the same wrongs now.

But the irony is, those who pretend that a 2000-year-old claim has value, still don't accept the right to return of people displaced last century, whose track we still have. They knew who their parents and grandparents were in person, nobody knows who their 2000 year ancestors are. Even I could have ancestors of that called holy land or any other land. Civilizations weren't still for 2000 years, there has been a huge amount of war, trade, and all kind of human exchange, if you know what I mean.

[Lila9]

@Hatfort You didn’t answer my questions. 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

How many years the Palestinian right to return lasts?

Will it ever expire as it was expired for Jews, as some believe? 

You can’t necessarily prove the same Jews in the Middle East two thousand years ago are the same ones that came from Europe 75 years ago. Especially since they refuse to take dna tests 

The longing for Palestinians to return to their ancestral home will never expire. Jews don’t actually feel a real connection to the land since that’s just something they say as a lie or they were brainwashed to say it. Palestinians are the true indigenous people to that land. If Jews do leave, which some did after a small Oct attack, they don’t really feel a longing to return and if they do it isn’t because of the actual land but just because there material stuff and family are back there. It’s like when someone steals from you and they blame it on hunger meanwhile some hungry people don’t steal at all even if they are hungry 

It won’t matter. Zionism is on its way out real soon. Literally nothing Zionists can do about it except more war crimes which they will be accounted for 

 

When all this is over and the Jews are allowed to stay they won’t be allowed to say that they were there 2000 years ago. They will have to acknowledge that they are basically beggars from a genocide and that they are guests due to generosity of Palestinians. That they depend on Middle East for survival from western anti semitism. Colonialism depending on others by stealing from others and pretending it’s yours. After colonialism is depending on others but admitting it’s not yours. All this propaganda is getting thrown out. Any delusions they hold will have to be uprooted 

Edited Saturday at 04:56 PM by Twentyfirst

[Hatfort]

4 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

@Hatfort You didn’t answer my questions. 

Yes I did.

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

What about another land? Who wants to live surrounded of that he'll?

Are you serious? They would kill all the Jews. There is a lot of hate accumulated 

How do you know they would kill all the Jews? They say they just want to return to their land. There is 100x more genocidal speech and language coming from Zionists from 48 all the way till today 

If you don’t at least want some form of vengeance after your land and people are raped then your either the Buddha or a pussy. But when things get corrected people tend to not want vengence as strongly  and it fades away 

 

If someone is gonna have to die. I’d rather see it be the invaders. But I don’t think anyone has to die at all and I don’t want to see anyone die. and the sooner it ends the sooner the hate can stop accumulating  

Edited Saturday at 05:14 PM by Twentyfirst

[Lila9]

@Twentyfirst

Jews in Europe have suffered enormous pogroms and persecution because they were not considered native Europeans. Being a Jew in a European country was regarded as one of the most shameful existences, along with being Romani, a prostitute, a homosexual, or any other person of color. They were told that they didn’t belong there and needed to return to the Middle East. But now, when they have “returned,” they are not considered Jewish enough to the Middle East, by some folks. So where they belong to?. 

 

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, Lila9 said:

@Twentyfirst

Jews in Europe have suffered enormous pogroms and persecution because they were not considered native Europeans. Being a Jew in a European country was regarded as one of the most shameful existences, along with being Romani, a prostitute, a homosexual, or any other person of color. They were told that they didn’t belong there and needed to return to the Middle East. But now, when they have “returned,” they are not considered Jewish enough to the Middle East, by some folks. So where they belong to?. 

 

Jews have always been a scattered diaspora. Religiously speaking they are not allowed to have independent land. Why do you think before Israel there were Jews scattered all over Europe , Middle East, and America? 

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

How do you know they would kill all the Jews? They say they just want to return to their land. There is 100x more genocidal speech and language coming from Zionists from 48 all the way till today 

If someone is gonna have to die. I’d rather see it be the invaders. But I don’t think anyone has to die at all 

Imagine the feeling of the Palestinians towards the Jews now. How many relatives of the dead, children, women, who already hated Israel, would now be willing to die for revenge. Imagine if they had the military power

 

1 minute ago, Lila9 said:

Jews in Europe have suffered enormous pogroms and persecution because they were not considered native Europeans. Being a Jew in a European country was regarded as one of the most shameful existences, along with being Romani, a prostitute, a homosexual, or any other person of color.

They was hated because they were richer than the natives. Just envy, a normal human feeling. Not very noble but inevitable 

[Hatfort]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

@Twentyfirst

Jews in Europe have suffered enormous pogroms and persecution because they were not considered native Europeans. Being a Jew in a European country was regarded as one of the most shameful existences, along with being Romani, a prostitute, a homosexual, or any other person of color. They were told that they didn’t belong there and needed to return to the Middle East. But now, when they have “returned,” they are not considered Jewish enough to the Middle East, by some folks. So where they belong to?.

Palestine was inhabited, Palestinians are the indigenous people of that land. They don't have to pay for the wrongs done to Jewish people by Europeans. If you hit me, I don't have the right to hit a third person, that's insane.

[Lila9]

 

6 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Jews have always been a scattered diaspora. Religiously speaking they are not allowed to have independent land. Why do you think before Israel there were Jews scattered all over Europe , Middle East, and America? 

 

This is their religion and their survival at stake so if they decide that it is safer to seek independence and self determination for the sake of their survival then this is valid, even if their religion contradicts it. It is up them to decide whether to strictly follow their religion or not, how much to follow it and how much to adjust it to their current state. 
 

 

[Lila9]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

They was hated because they were richer than the natives. Just envy, a normal human feeling. Not very noble but inevitable 

Maybe it was part of the reason along with fear of strangers.

[Lila9]

20 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

Palestine was inhabited, Palestinians are the indigenous people of that land. They don't have to pay for the wrongs done to Jewish people by Europeans. If you hit me, I don't have the right to hit a third person, that's insane.

No one has the right to hit anyone. But people do this anyway for various reasons. If your life was dependent on hitting a third person you would do that. 

If you are conscious you would have tried to do that in the least painful ways possible, which I believe what was done by the European Jews when they migrated to this land. Their initial strategy was buying territory.

This could have been much more brutal, as we have seen in the human history. 

Edited Saturday at 05:43 PM by Lila9

[Hatfort]

12 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

This is their religion and their survival at stake so if they decide that it is safer to seek independence and self determination for the sake of their survival then this is valid, even if their religion contradicts it. It is up them to decide whether to strictly follow their religion or not, how much to follow it and how much to adjust it to their current state.

But this self-determination was practiced in an inhabited land, without their consent. Based on the Jewish ethnicity, but pure colonialism of foreigners and ethnic cleansing of the locals, that's what has been happening for the last 75 years and last year in particular was another crude episode of it. So people acknowledge the rights of these Palestinians, of course.

Just now, Lila9 said:

No one has the right to hit anyone. But people do this anyway for various reasons. If your life was dependent on hitting a third person you would do that. 

If you are conscious you would have tried to that in the least painful ways possible, which I believe what was done by the European Jews when they migrated to this land. Their initial strategy was buying territory.

This could have been much more brutal, as we have seen in the human history. 

Buying territory in foreign countries is accepted, it happens in the frame of business or people just to live somewhere else, but that doesn't give the right to claim a new state there, you have to abide by the laws of the countries you move into. There was the British decolonization going on then, that was replaced by the Jewish colonization, which was even worse, because not only they were aiming to control the land and the resources, but blatantly replace the inhabitants of there, who have the right to resist these attacks.

[Twentyfirst]

12 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

No one has the right to hit anyone. But people do this anyway for various reasons. If your life was dependent on hitting a third person you would do that. 

If you are conscious you would have tried to that in the least painful ways possible, which I believe what was done by the European Jews when they migrated to this land. Their initial strategy was buying territory.

This could have been much more brutal, as we have seen in the human history. 

By this logic since the Palestinians were hit by the Jews they have right to exterminate them out of need of survival 

Edited Saturday at 05:53 PM by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

31 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

 

 

This is their religion and their survival at stake so if they decide that it is safer to seek independence and self determination for the sake of their survival then this is valid, even if their religion contradicts it. It is up them to decide whether to strictly follow their religion or not, how much to follow it and how much to adjust it to their current state. 
 

 

you were asking where Jews truly belong. They belong in diaspora 
 

But I’m saying if they are allowed to stay in Palestine it’s a favorable upgrade for them. Beggars can’t be choosers 

Edited Saturday at 05:56 PM by Twentyfirst

[Lila9]

1 minute ago, Hatfort said:

But this self-determination was practiced in an inhabited land, without their consent. Based on the Jewish ethnicity, but pure colonialism of foreigners and ethnic cleansing of the locals, that's what has been happening for the last 75 years and last year in particular was another crude episode of it. So people acknowledge the rights of these Palestinians, of course.

I see. But this land was a land, not a country. It’s not like Russia invading Ukraine. 

There were Arab natives in this land, of course, who were very reluctant to share it. Valid. But there are natives everywhere, in any place in the world. If the European Jews did the same in Africa, then there were other natives paying the price.
But if this was in Africa or any other place, then this was less justified because the connection of Jews to Africa is not as recent as their connection to Israel. 

Around 700000 Arabs were displaced during the 1948 war and the same amount of Middle Eastern Jews were displaced from their homes as well, so they are equal. 

 

[Twentyfirst]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Around 700000 Arabs were displaced during the 1948 war and the same amount of Middle Eastern Jews were displaced from their homes as well, so they are equal. 

 

The Jews weren’t displaced by middle easterner countries.  They were absorbed by the Zionists to increase the population which is actually one of the many disruptions of Zionism