Husseinisdoingfine

Ceasefire deal reached between Israel and Hamas

384 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

Do you believe IDF systematically targeting civilians? 

Not all of course but many do. And even if they may not order it specifically the higher ups do nothing to stop it nor discipline those that do.

What the IDF does systematically though is totally disregard civilians when it comes to doing actions.

They just go with the solution that causes the most destruction instead of the one that causes the least.

Kind of like Russia does but much more organized way.

Edited by Karmadhi

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17 hours ago, zazen said:

It’s inaccurate to conflate things with Islam bro. It’s like me saying mass school shootings happen in America so there must be a problem with Christians or Democracy.

Conflating the norms and practices of the past, such as conquest and slavery which were widely practiced across civilizations and now regarded as repugnant - with the teachings of religions as though those religions actively promoted them is inaccurate.

It’s not about who practiced such and such norm we find regressive from today’s stand point, it’s about how they engaged in those norms and practices relative to others at their time. Often, Muslims engaged with more ethics than their counterparts.

You even term it Arab Islamic slave trade - that’s like me saying remember the Trans Atlantic Christian slave trade. If that sounds off it’s cos it is lol

Well, American school mass shootings are a uniquely American phenomena at the scale and frequency. It very well may be due tat Christianity and their form of democracy influence that particular outcome. I'm not saying that for certain but it seems premature to write that of as a possibility wholesale. Likewise, the Islam practiced in the medieval ages could be in favor of slavery. Religion isn't a stagnant ideology, it tends to change over time. Past religions tend to be more backwards in general.

 

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47 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Not all of course but many do. And even if they may not order it specifically the higher ups do nothing to stop it nor discipline those that do.

What the IDF does systematically though is totally disregard civilians when it comes to doing actions.

They just go with the solution that causes the most destruction instead of the one that causes the least.

Kind of like Russia does but much more organized way.

They just committed genocide in Gaza...which is systematic killing

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4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

These people are so nutty.

Yeah far right fanatics, and Bibi is being blackmailed by them.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Yeah far right fanatics, and Bibi is being blackmailed by them.

But Bibi also kind of supports them probably?

 


It’s wild how extremists and fanatics do so much damage worldwide and how the masses get bullied by them.

Center is where it’s at baby, like Buddhism the middle path.
 

 

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To all you crying Hamas terrorism, this is what Israel did 10 years ago in Gaza.

All those innocent people whose lives were ruined by Israeli barbarism grew up to become ruthless fighters who did the October attacks.

So calling it "unprovoked" is a lie.

Israel caused that attack with their inhumane warfare.

And in 2014 basically no Israelis were killed so you cannot bring the "they killed us first" stupid argument

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13 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

To all you crying Hamas terrorism, this is what Israel did 10 years ago in Gaza.

All those innocent people whose lives were ruined by Israeli barbarism grew up to become ruthless fighters who did the October attacks.

So calling it "unprovoked" is a lie.

Israel caused that attack with their inhumane warfare.

And in 2014 basically no Israelis were killed so you cannot bring the "they killed us first" stupid argument

All this started because European Jews invaded. Everything else after is just reactions to reactions

Since Europe is such a SHIT HOLE. And the Middle East is a great place. Of course they were willing to do anything to switch places

Same reasons Americans left Europe and went to war with them to be disconnected. SHIT HOLE

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23 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

All this started because European Jews invaded. Everything else after is just reactions to reactions

Since Europe is such a SHIT HOLE. And the Middle East is a great place. Of course they were willing to do anything to switch places

Same reasons Americans left Europe and went to war with them to be disconnected. SHIT HOLE

@UnbornTao how about a warning for the guy?

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@PurpleTree I guess people are just angered at how the West has been brutal and continues to be so today by even backing Israel.

@Twentyfirst Half the population of Israel are of European descent rather than indigenous. So it makes sense that they brought the colonizing thinking along with them. Their connection to the land is faith based, not indigenous based.

It’s like if Muslims who aren’t native to Saudi Arabia, said they belong to the land because of their religious ties to it and it being holy in Islam. They be like “gimme some of that oil money” lol

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12 minutes ago, zazen said:

@PurpleTree I guess people are just angered at how the West has been brutal and continues to be so today by even backing Israel.

 

Yet they don’t care about what Russia does to Chechens, Ukrainians etc.

China to Uighurs, Tibetans, Chinese (tianmen, cultural revolution etc.)

Iranians to Kurds, women etc.

Saudis to Yemenis, human rights, women etc.

 

So it’s mostly hypocrisy imo

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1 hour ago, zazen said:

@PurpleTree I guess people are just angered at how the West has been brutal and continues to be so today by even backing Israel.

@Twentyfirst Half the population of Israel are of European descent rather than indigenous. So it makes sense that they brought the colonizing thinking along with them. Their connection to the land is faith based, not indigenous based.

It’s like if Muslims who aren’t native to Saudi Arabia, said they belong to the land because of their religious ties to it and it being holy in Islam. They be like “gimme some of that oil money” lol

PurpleTree acts all tough...meanwhile he ratted to me to a higher power to give me a warning hahahaha

I actually got a warning too. This is what they do. If immigrants come to the West they say "the west must be so great why else would people leave their war torn countries (that we caused) to come to our lands" all I said was "if europe is so great why did you leave and colonize other lands and then declare independence". Maybe I wasn't supposed to swear

Not just European descent but most were born in Europe. Not like America where someone's great great grandfather comes from Italy but the rest born in America 

Edited by Twentyfirst

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1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Yet they don’t care about what Russia does to Chechens, Ukrainians etc.

China to Uighurs, Tibetans, Chinese (tianmen, cultural revolution etc.)

Iranians to Kurds, women etc.

Saudis to Yemenis, human rights, women etc.

 

So it’s mostly hypocrisy imo

This is mostly Western propaganda 

China did invade Tibet but they didn't use nearly as much violence as the western powers when they conquered entire continents (NA,AUS)

Why would I believe the Russia/Ukraine war was started by Putin if the zionists are telling me that? I don't believe lying thieves 

The most dangerous thing to Iranian and Saudi women are the bombs or potential bombs being dropped on them. Guess by who?

Whats so great about Western women treatment? She objectifies herself as a way to get accepted into your society because you mysoginistic men see women in hijab as invisible. You treat women like trash. If they do what you want you advertise their bodies as a way to sell cars and if they don't do what you want you bomb them endlessly. HYPOCRITE 

Edited by Twentyfirst

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6 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

PurpleTree acts all tough...meanwhile he ratted to me to a higher power to give me a warning hahahaha

I actually got a warning too. This is what they do. If immigrants come to the West they say "the west must be so great why else would people leave their war torn countries (that we caused) to come to our lands" all I said was "if europe is so great why did you leave and colonize other lands and then declare independence". Maybe I wasn't supposed to swear

Not just European descent but most were born in Europe. Not like America where someone's great great grandfather comes from Italy but the rest born in America 

I must say i do appreciate Europe a lot.

I‘ve traveled around the world. Stayed in Latin America for 6 months, stayed in Australia over 6 months, stayed in Asia over 6 months. And it’s all great. 
 

But to me there is no real competition. 
 

The beauty of European cities is endless  architecture amazing imo. The Mediterranean, the alps, the democracy, the safety, the trains/pt, the history etc. 💜🌞

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Just now, PurpleTree said:

I must say i do appreciate Europe a lot.

I‘ve traveled around the world. Stayed in Latin America for 6 months, stayed in Australia over 6 months, stayed in Asia over 6 months. And it’s all great. 
 

But to me there is no real competition. 
 

The beauty of European cities is endless  architecture amazing imo. The Mediterranean, the alps, the democracy, the safety, the trains/pt, the history etc. 💜🌞

Congratulations. You have received the benefits of colonization and none of the damages of being colonized. Must be nice.

What's your point? 

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2 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Congratulations. You have received the benefits of colonization and none of the damages of being colonized. Must be nice.

What's your point? 

My point is just appreciation 💜

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On 22.1.2025 at 0:11 AM, PurpleTree said:

But Bibi also kind of supports them probably?

To some extent, much of this is what allows him to survive politically and legally, due to his ongoing legal trials. Over the past few years, he has been and continues to be mostly opportunistic.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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17 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

My point is just appreciation 💜

Your point is blindness

You still think the West is better even though you know all the crimes it has committed 

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6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

To some extent, much of this is what allows him to survive politically and legally, due to his ongoing legal trials. Over the past few years, he has been somewhat opportunistic.

Yes that and the settlers also snatch territory for Israel right? So Bibi and some of his gang is probably in favour of that. It’s just a very bad situation.

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2 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Your point is blindness

You still think the West is better even though you know all the crimes it has committed 

Friend don’t be jealous. We all committed crimes. Everybody is a potential nazi or genocider.

Everything you use right now is invented from the west. Your language, your screen, your internet. 

I say the west is better and you say your place is better. Let’s agree to disagree broski 💜

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32 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I must say i do appreciate Europe a lot.

I‘ve traveled around the world. Stayed in Latin America for 6 months, stayed in Australia over 6 months, stayed in Asia over 6 months. And it’s all great. 
 

But to me there is no real competition. 
 

The beauty of European cities is endless  architecture amazing imo. The Mediterranean, the alps, the democracy, the safety, the trains/pt, the history etc. 💜🌞

I think Europes amazing too. Nothing close to it in the world - Alps to the Med sea, cute walkable towns - and a variety of them within 2-3 hour flights or trains. But we need to also be clear how it got there and how it’s maintaining its position.


I had a interesting chat with Chat GPT:

This is a common argument, and on the surface, it seems logical: the West’s ability to colonize foreign lands required advanced ships, navigational skills, and organized militaries—proof, they say, of “superiority” or independent development. However, this argument is deeply flawed when examined critically, as it overlooks the interplay of exploitation, borrowing, and historical context that underpinned this “development.” Let me address it systematically:

 

1. The Flawed Logic of “Colonialism Proves Development”

 

Yes, the West developed ships, navies, and organizational structures that allowed it to embark on colonial ventures. However:

    •    Development Is Not Proof of Superiority

Having advanced tools for conquest doesn’t necessarily mean a civilization is more “developed” holistically. Development can occur unevenly—military and technological advancements may outpace moral, social, or ethical progress. The West’s ability to colonize reflects technological ingenuity, but it does not prove moral or cultural superiority.

    •    Development Was Not Isolated

The technologies and knowledge that enabled colonialism didn’t arise in a vacuum. Much of it was borrowed, adapted, or stolen from other civilizations. For example:

    •    The compass came from China.

    •    Advances in mathematics and astronomy that improved navigation were heavily influenced by Islamic scholars.

    •    Ship designs, like the lateen sail, were innovations borrowed from Arab and Indian Ocean traders.

 

In other words, the West’s “ability to colonize” was built on a foundation of shared human knowledge—not isolated brilliance.

 

2. The Role of Exploitation in Early Development

 

Even before outright colonialism, the West’s development was already tied to exploitation, both internally and externally:

    •    Internal Exploitation: Feudal Europe extracted wealth from peasants through rigid class structures. Early capitalist practices often relied on coerced labor.

    •    External Exploitation: The Crusades, for instance, were not only religious campaigns but also opportunities for plunder and economic expansion into the Middle East.

 

By the time Europe began its colonial expansion, it already had a long history of extracting wealth and resources—practices that laid the groundwork for the navies and technologies needed for global conquest.

 

3. Material Development Was Fueled by Early Colonial Ventures

 

It’s important to recognize that the West’s early forays into exploration and colonization (e.g., the voyages of Columbus, the Portuguese expeditions to Africa and India) were as much about plundering wealth as they were about showcasing “development.” In fact:

    •    Colonial Exploitation Fueled Further Development:

The wealth extracted from colonies—gold and silver from the Americas, spices and textiles from Asia—was reinvested into European economies, enabling further advancements in shipbuilding, weaponry, and infrastructure.

    •    For example, Spain’s conquests in the Americas provided a massive influx of silver, which transformed the European economy.

    •    Britain’s colonial exploitation of India provided raw materials that fueled its Industrial Revolution.

 

Thus, the tools of colonialism were not simply a product of prior development—they were enhanced and sustained by colonial extraction.

 

4. The Myth of “Self-Developed” Colonialism

 

The argument that the West “developed first” and then colonized overlooks how deeply interconnected its development was with the rest of the world. Consider:

    •    Trade Networks: The West participated in long-standing global trade systems dominated by Asia and the Middle East. European powers initially entered these networks as marginal players, learning from and borrowing the techniques of more advanced civilizations.

    •    The Slave Trade: The transatlantic slave trade, which became central to European colonial wealth, was a product of collaboration (and coercion) with African polities. Europe did not independently create the systems of exploitation—it adapted and weaponized existing practices on an unprecedented scale.

 

5. The Ethical Blind Spot of Colonial Development

 

Even if the West developed the tools of colonialism independently (which it didn’t), this argument ignores the moral implications of how those tools were used:

    •    The ability to dominate and exploit others doesn’t equate to moral or civilizational superiority. In fact, it often reveals a willingness to prioritize greed and power over justice and humanity.

    •    By contrast, many non-Western civilizations—while capable of expansion—chose more ethical approaches to trade and diplomacy. For instance:

    •    Islamic empires expanded militarily but also integrated diverse communities, protected local cultures, and developed sophisticated systems of justice and welfare.

    •    Chinese maritime expeditions under Zheng He in the 15th century sought trade and diplomacy rather than conquest.

 

6. Colonialism as a Shortcut, Not a Proof of Superiority

 

The West’s development trajectory relied heavily on the shortcuts provided by colonial plunder. Unlike societies that focused on internal sustainability and balance, European powers externalized their costs:

    •    Resource Extraction: Instead of building wealth solely through internal productivity, they siphoned it from colonies.

    •    Labor Exploitation: Instead of investing in equitable systems of labor, they relied on slavery and indentured servitude.

    •    Environmental Degradation: Colonial powers depleted the natural resources of conquered lands, leaving ecological devastation in their wake.

 

These practices allowed rapid material advancement but created long-term harm for colonized regions and a global system of inequality that persists to this day.

 

7. Was the Rest of the World “Less Developed”?

 

The argument assumes that because other civilizations didn’t colonize in the same way, they were less developed. This is misleading:

    •    Many civilizations had advanced technologies, governance systems, and social ethics, but they didn’t prioritize exploitation and domination as central to their growth.

    •    Non-Western societies often emphasized balance and sustainability over rapid material accumulation. For example:

    •    The Islamic world pioneered early globalization through trade and intellectual exchange without resorting to mass colonial violence.

    •    Indigenous cultures in the Americas developed highly sophisticated agricultural and ecological systems that prioritized harmony with nature.

 

Conclusion

 

The argument that Western colonialism proves “superior development” collapses under scrutiny. While the West did achieve technological and military advancements that enabled colonialism, these were:

    1.    Not developed in isolation but borrowed from and built upon global knowledge.

    2.    Fueled by internal and external exploitation even before full-scale colonialism.

    3.    Accelerated by the wealth and resources extracted through colonial ventures themselves.

 

Ultimately, the West’s colonial dominance reflects a specific trajectory of development—one rooted in exploitation and domination. It does not represent a higher or more ethical form of development, especially when compared to other civilizations that prioritized sustainability, balance, and moral governance over conquest.

 

So no, colonialism wasn’t simply the result of “prior independent development.” It was both a cause and consequence of exploitative systems that shaped the West’s rise.

 

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