Ceasefire deal reached between Israel and Hamas

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Raze said:

If the ceasefire actually sustains it’s looking like their society will internally snap.

It won't snap but there will be a value systems clash. 

Polls show most Israelis want to end the war.

Edited 20 hours ago by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

Displaced Palestinians have begun to return home 

 

Rats live better than this.

[Jayson G]

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rats live better than this.

the contrast between the beautiful sky wow

[Lila9]

8 hours ago, gambler said:

I disagree. After doing some personal reflection, if a foreign entity that despises, humiliates and subjugates me, while having exiled and committed atrocities against me, covering it up and manipulating the narrative, as well as spreading the message to the world that we are sub-humans, while continuing to treat us without dignity and steal our land, creating think tanks and propaganda platforms that are perniciously anti-Arab, advocating for bloodshed against Arabs like the war in Iraq, while going on a crusade with the world to change the Middle East into something unrecognizable, of course I’m going to be radicalized and filled with so much hate that my radicalization is going to look irrational and something you won’t comprehend. 
 

People really don’t have an appreciation of how badly Arab Muslims have been treated. And are extremely ignorant of what we had to endure. We feel lower than nig****. 

Your pain is understandable, and your complaints are valid.

But if you justify Muslim Arabs attacking innocents like children, men and women who didn’t directly cause them pain because they were poorly treated by the Western elites, then you should also justify Jews creating the Zionist movement and building a Jewish state at the expense of native Arabs because of the persecution and Holocaust they endured.

You expect Jews to be better and wiser and not grab land like lunatics because they have been mistreated for decades, but you don’t expect the same from Arabs, as if they are incapable of reasoning beyond their rage. You justify their dysfunctionality, and by doing so, you actually perpetuate the stereotype of Arabs being primitive and savages beyond any help.

Yes, white supremacy sucks, and Islamophobia sucks, but this classism isn’t unique to Westerners and wasn’t invented by them. This is very much a part of human nature: to be classist and racist and an oppressor. You can see this everywhere in the world, including the Middle East. There are groups of Arabs who see themselves as superior to other groups of Arabs for reasons such as X, Y, Z. 

I had a pen pal from Saudi Arabia, a guy with mixed Arab and African heritage, and he described to me the treatment he receives because of his skin color. It doesn’t help that he is fluent in Arabic culture and is a Muslim, and was born in Saudi Arabia, he will forever be seen as inferior to white Arabs. He has fewer opportunities in life living there, and he actually planned to leave the country.

I don’t know what his life like today but there are millions like him in the Middle East, who have no voice. There are millions of men women and children and animals suffering in the Middle East. Not because they are inherently evil but because of human nature and corruption of the locals alone.

The situation in Israel is similar, but it was more clear when the Jewish state was formed. The European Jews, who were persecuted by the Europeans in the diaspora, were the new elites who looked down on the Middle Eastern Jews.

It has been dramatically improved, and now the ME Jews’ culture is more in the mainstream. But while the ME Jews gained more power and opportunities, it didn’t save them from looking down on the newer Jewish immigrants from the Soviet Union and Ethiopia.

We may be able to remove the Western influence from the ME, but it doesn’t mean there will be peace, nor that there ever was much peace and harmony there. We can’t make the ME great again because it never was great.

The history of the Middle East is full of wars, conflicts, oppression, slavery, and corruption since the dawn of time. If you read either the Bible, the New Testament, or the Quran, you would find that there were constant tensions there. Endless tensions, brutal conflicts, and belief system clashes.

The most significant one was the formation of monotheism, which fought polytheism through severe demonization and brutality.

The polytheists’ sacred altars were either destroyed or stolen by the monotheists. We can see this clearly in Judaism and Islam.

The holiest place for Jews is not the Western Wall but the Foundation Stone. The Western Wall is part of the Jewish Temple, which protected the Foundation Stone.

But before the formation of Judaism and the creation of the First Temple, this stone was worshipped by the Canaanites, who were pagans and polytheists. It was taken by the new Canaanite monotheistic religion and attributed to them. Those polytheists were forced to either join to the new formed monotheistic religion or to risk being enslaved or exiled or even killed. 

The same is true for the Black Stone in Mecca. Which is the holiest place for Muslims. It was an altar for the polytheists. It was an altar for the Divine Feminine and sacred sexuality, but it was taken by the new Muslim monotheistic religion and attributed to them. Not in friendly manners either.

We can only imagine how much suffering and generational trauma this alone caused. And how the new former monotheist religions created delusional stories and narratives justifying this.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lila9]

5 hours ago, Raze said:

Displaced Palestinians have begun to return home 

 

Hopefully they will restore it.
And hopefully it would be quick if they will receive lots of aid.

And hopefully Hamas will be replaced with more conscious leadership which will allow them to heal. 

[gambler]

@Lila9 I wasn’t and would never justify it, just admitting if my circumstances were different, I could see myself a monster. 
 

I appreciate what you had to share, I enjoyed reading it.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Hopefully they will restore it.
And hopefully it would be quick if they will receive lots of aid.

And hopefully Hamas will be replaced with more conscious leadership which will allow them to heal. 

Nope, nope, nope.

No chance of that.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

And hopefully Hamas will be replaced with more conscious leadership which will allow them to heal. 

Our messianic government led by Bibi, Smotrich and Ben Gvir purposely refused to offer an alternative.

Edited 16 hours ago by Nivsch

[royce]

[zazen]

7 hours ago, Raze said:

Displaced Palestinians have begun to return home 

 

The Wests higher values on display.

Us Westerners love to conflate development with higher values, and wealth with worth. Never mind how we developed or obtained that wealth - which was through the lower values of exploitation, domination, accumulation and materialism. We then use the material gains of this as evidence of embodying higher values.

We claim to uphold high values, but approach them through lower values. Freedom comes through dominating others, democracy comes through the deception of elitists playing musical chairs. Its plutocracy wearing the costume of democracy - Halloween ended just under three months ago.

The more we trumpet these higher values, the more we sink lower in practicing them, and the more the hypocrisy becomes glaring. Even if we do practice these values domestically (lol) they very much disappear when we deal with other nations. We don’t have partners but vassals.

We think we found these values, never mind that they are universally aspirational and that other cultures may even approach them in more multi dimensional and mature way. That lesser freedoms are given up for larger ones, or that dignity is in modesty rather than the freedom of vulgarity. That freedom is not absolute but relational, or that human rights must balance individual and collective well being.

We conflate that because we are democratic - that this confers some higher paradigm or supremacy.  The plutocratic reality of the West is not an aberration but a continuation of the West’s feudalistic roots, where power was concentrated in the hands of the few.

If governance reflects values, then the West’s plutocratic system reveals its true priorities: wealth, power, and control, not the higher ideals of equality, justice, and freedom it claims to champion. By this logic, Western governance reflects lower values, not higher ones.

Perhaps, countries can approach development and higher values differently - and the Wests approach to these higher values isn’t the only valid one.

Edited 15 hours ago by zazen

[Lila9]

@gambler I understand, thank you.

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nope, nope, nope.

No chance of that.

 

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Our messianic government led by Bibi, Smotrich and Ben Gvir purposely refused to offer an alternative.

I see, an alternative to Hamas may be very unlikely because of our government. But maybe something will change with Trump. I don’t know. They talk a lot about post-war Gaza without Hamas.

Ben Gvir has thrown a temper tantrum and quit because of the hostages deal and will be replaced, probably with someone similar to him. 

 

[Raze]

Edited 13 hours ago by Raze

[PurpleTree]

I blame mostly religion. 
 

 

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Your pain is understandable, and your complaints are valid.

But if you justify Muslim Arabs attacking innocents like children, men and women who didn’t directly cause them pain because they were poorly treated by the Western elites, then you should also justify Jews creating the Zionist movement and building a Jewish state at the expense of native Arabs because of the persecution and Holocaust they endured.

You expect Jews to be better and wiser and not grab land like lunatics because they have been mistreated for decades, but you don’t expect the same from Arabs, as if they are incapable of reasoning beyond their rage. You justify their dysfunctionality, and by doing so, you actually perpetuate the stereotype of Arabs being primitive and savages beyond any help.

 

The extremist point of view is you are part of a society which causes a huge level of untold atrocities. They live in a democracy where the taxes go to fund weapons (USA is the perfect example) and then they vote for the presidents that setup the foreign policies. When Bin Laden sees this he will blame all Americans and if he sends planes into towers it doesnt matter who is there because they are technically on American SOIL

Israel is even worse because they are on stolen land meant for indigenous population who they pushed out. Imagine being on stolen land and then shocked and seeking pity when you get attacked. How many different nationalities were at the festival? I think people from 40 different countries. What in the hell are people from 40 different countries doing on somebody else's land while they are a refugee in some camp somewhere. Doesn't make sense. To make it worse everybody knows what goes on at those festivals. Doing haram things on the Holy Land is just asking for trouble. Every single Israeli knows the potential harms of living on that land and they all CHOOSE to take that risk 

Imagine if you went inside a bank vault and you stole all the money. Now imagine the bank vault closes on you. The people who own the bank can easily find you because you yourself are trapped inside the vault and you can't get out of it. But the vault belongs to them so in their minds they can do whatever they want. Now imagine...to defend yourself you vote and pay tax for someone that is also inside the vault with you to attack the owners of the vault. They will blame you for voting and paying that person

Want more proof? Even the West themselves said it's okay to genocide Gaza since they VOTED for Hamas. The same exact logic as the extremist Islamics use! They forgot to mention that half of Gazans are children so that voting process doesn't really count. And the only reason they had to vote for anyone was desperation and democratic processes being forced upon them because of the trap they were in. And even if it was a legitimate voting process you are putting them under so much pressure of occupation of course they will do some crazy ass attack. Israel always brags how they are above their savage neighbors since they have the best form of governance. The only democracy in the Middle East that is the shining light and example for the rest blah blah blah its all garbage 

[Twentyfirst]

5 hours ago, Lila9 said:

 

We may be able to remove the Western influence from the ME, but it doesn’t mean there will be peace, nor that there ever was much peace and harmony there. We can’t make the ME great again because it never was great.

Nowhere has ever been great. Because life was always a struggle. But today in the modern world with all the advancements some places are still actively exploiting others and without that exploitation from outside they would be great. Or at least they should be given the chance to prove that they can be great 

Quote

The history of the Middle East is full of wars, conflicts, oppression, slavery, and corruption since the dawn of time. If you read either the Bible, the New Testament, or the Quran, you would find that there were constant tensions there. Endless tensions, brutal conflicts, and belief system clashes.

 

Yes everywhere was. But nobody was ever brutal LIKE the West. Everything they do is MORE brutal and atrocious. With more deception and exploiting. Just slavery for example. In the Middle East slaves were treated with respect and could sometimes rise to a higher position than even their master. In USA they were whipped and they created sciences and philosophies to try to prove that Black people are biologically designed to be slaves. Whole other level.

Do you remember? When Palestinians occupied the USA back in 19...oh wait. They never did

Everyone was killing everyone but now everyone stopped. And the West are the last ones doing it. The last ones to evolve. "The last ones standing" 

Edited 12 hours ago by Twentyfirst

[Basman]

37 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

Its so grey. Like a concrete landfill. You can almost taste the dustiness coming through these pictures.

[Twentyfirst]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

The Wests higher values on display.

Us Westerners love to conflate development with higher values, and wealth with worth. Never mind how we developed or obtained that wealth - which was through the lower values of exploitation, domination, accumulation and materialism. We then use the material gains of this as evidence of embodying higher values.

We claim to uphold high values, but approach them through lower values. Freedom comes through dominating others, democracy comes through the deception of elitists playing musical chairs. Its plutocracy wearing the costume of democracy - Halloween ended just under three months ago.

The more we trumpet these higher values, the more we sink lower in practicing them, and the more the hypocrisy becomes glaring. Even if we do practice these values domestically (lol) they very much disappear when we deal with other nations. We don’t have partners but vassals.

We think we found these values, never mind that they are universally aspirational and that other cultures may even approach them in more multi dimensional and mature way. That lesser freedoms are given up for larger ones, or that dignity is in modesty rather than the freedom of vulgarity. That freedom is not absolute but relational, or that human rights must balance individual and collective well being.

We conflate that because we are democratic - that this confers some higher paradigm or supremacy.  The plutocratic reality of the West is not an aberration but a continuation of the West’s feudalistic roots, where power was concentrated in the hands of the few.

If governance reflects values, then the West’s plutocratic system reveals its true priorities: wealth, power, and control, not the higher ideals of equality, justice, and freedom it claims to champion. By this logic, Western governance reflects lower values, not higher ones.

Perhaps, countries can approach development and higher values differently - and the Wests approach to these higher values isn’t the only valid one.

And the hypocrisy is so great they wont let other nations develop in the same way!

So the USA is allowed to build itself and become the number one superpower on the backs of slaves and stealing money and land. And then they SHIT on everyone that isn't as developed as they are. So if Dubai wants to develop to stop getting shit on by the USA and they use exploitation of workers then the USA in its hypocrisy says thats not allowed even though it's the only reason they themselves developed. Then they hate Dubai even more than they hated them before when they were shitting on them for not being developed. And now any success Dubai has they will ALWAYS bring up the exploitation even though that exploitation is only a 1% sliver of what the USA did and demands the rest of the world forgive them for 

See the game they try to play? And they really think truly think of everyone else as so primitive that they can't figure out what their game even is. But a lot of people are starting to wake up to all this propaganda and deception 

[Twentyfirst]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I blame mostly religion. 
 

 

You mean the 3 Abrahamic religions that were created there since thousands of years ago. They all lived in normal peace before Zionism. Jewish kids would play with Palestinian kids. And there were some Palestinians that were christians 

When one religion wages war then of course the other religions have to fight back. But no that is not whats happening. The religion is just a nice story to keep lazy people away from finding the deep truths 

But its mostly one the ideology (zionism) of one people (European Jews) who weren't assimilated to that region since they were from Europe wages war then the others have to fight back  

[PurpleTree]

10 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

You mean the 3 Abrahamic religions that were created there since thousands of years ago. They all lived in normal peace before Zionism. Jewish kids would play with Palestinian kids. And there were some Palestinians that were christians 

When one religion wages war then of course the other religions have to fight back. But no that is not whats happening. The religion is just a nice story to keep lazy people away from finding the deep truths 

But its mostly one the ideology (zionism) of one people (European Jews) who weren't assimilated to that region since they were from Europe wages war then the others have to fight back  

Do you ever come out of "victim mode"?

Yea Judaism ( we have to go back there and we has god on our side 😇)

Islam ( Nah this is ours now Mohami said so 😇

And American Evangelical Christians ( Gosh we want to meddle also in Jerusalem we feel left out)

Edited 12 hours ago by PurpleTree

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Our messianic government led by Bibi, Smotrich and Ben Gvir purposely refused to offer an alternative.

It's not about the people in the government but the ideology. Zionism

Zionism is saying that the Jews need a homeland in Palestine. There are 3 fundamental problems with that which can never be solved. The first problem is that the Jews NEED a homeland but really they don't anymore. Hitler is not gonna reincarnate. The second problem is Palestine belongs to Palestinians. The third problem is Palestinians didn't start this conflict it was Hitler so they will never feel guilty for anything they do to defend themselves