Ceasefire deal reached between Israel and Hamas

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, Lila9 said:

You may be right but looking at our government it appears that they are non-removable and are determined to stay at any cost like a cancer.

Zionism is on its way out. The more they clutch to it the worst off they will be when the inevitable happens

[Nivsch]

22 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The Arab neighbors that attacked in 67 because Israel is a destabilization of the entire region? 

When you introduce a different religion into a region that was previously homogenous in another religion, especially in a stage red and blue mentality, it will naturally cause destabilization. This doesn't mean the process shouldn't happen especially if you consider the Jewish history in Europe. If you're facing a crisis with your family due to differing beliefs, it doesn't necessarily mean the destabilization is wrong. Yes there is a room to critisize the way it happened and keep happening from both sides.

Edited Saturday at 12:01 PM by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

When you introduce a different religion into a region that is homogenous in another religion, especially in a stage red and blue mentality, it will naturally cause destabilization. This doesn't mean the process shouldn't happen. If you're facing a crisis with your family due to differing beliefs, it doesn't necessarily mean the destabilization is wrong.

I think it was mostly about how zionism is a violent, lying, thieving ideology. There was always 3 religions in that area. What you talking bout? Still so hard to speak to all the Israelis on this forum. Like running through sticky mud 

Has Israel ever even tried to give Palestinians all their land back, apologize and acknowledge all the crimes they have committed, allowed the Palestinian refugees to come back, allowed Palestine to have an army just like any other nation has, followed all the UN laws etc etc? 

Or are they just in a self fulfilling prophecy of paranoia of what may happen and they have never tried this and that's the cause of all this drama

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

When you introduce a different religion into a region that is homogenous in another religion, especially in a stage red and blue mentality, it will naturally cause destabilization. This doesn't mean the process shouldn't happen. If you're facing a crisis with your family due to differing beliefs, it doesn't necessarily mean the destabilization is wrong.

It seems that the creation and permanence of Israel has created a growing radicalization and a huge instability in the Islamic world that only increases. What is the end of this process? Right now the anti-Zionist feelings in the Muslim world are stronger than ever. Israel remains because of its superior military strength, but it is a rather ugly prospect to always live surrounded by enemies who hate you and who, given their circumstances, are becoming more and more radicalized. We will see what the butterfly effect of the Gaza bombing is.

[Raze]

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

I think it was mostly about how zionism is a violent, lying, thieving ideology

Sectors and Ideologies among the Jews differ greatly.

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

There was always 3 religions in that area

Jews and Christians were negligible in percents in the last centuries.

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Has Israel ever even tried to give Palestinians all their land back, apologize and acknowledge all the crimes they have committed

There were many trials during 90s and 00s.

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Palestine to have an army

A bit difficult after reality of terror attacks.

Edited Saturday at 12:10 PM by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

There are many and very different sectors among Jews.

You can’t brag that you are the only democracy among savages but not take responsibility for your collective society 

Quote

 Jews and Christians are negligible in percents in the last centuries.

It’s not a problem. It’s about the theft 

Quote

There were many trials during 90s and 00s.

A bit difficult after a policy of terror.

How were there trials? I’m not saying to do negotiations l, treaties or trails. I asked if Israel ever tried going all the way with it. Give back all land and allow all refugees to return and apologize for the initial thefts. It seems they try every solution except the most important one 

Edited Saturday at 12:10 PM by Twentyfirst

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

You can’t brag that you are the only democracy among savages but not take responsibility for your collective society 

They have to. But what do you suggest they will do? Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich voters will never admit they are wrong.

Edited Saturday at 12:17 PM by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Give back all land

And go back to Europe?

[Lila9]

15 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Zionism is on its way out. The more they clutch to it the worst off they will be when the inevitable happens

What will happen when Zionism is destroyed? How would life in the territory of Israel, the new Palestine, look? How would the lives of Palestinians change? What would their government look like? How would the Middle East as a whole be affected?

Where would the Jews go? The majority of Jews in Israel are the descendants of those who came from Middle Eastern countries. Would the Middle Eastern countries accept them back?

Or Europe would Europe accept millions of Jews? Or America? 

 

[Twentyfirst]

41 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

They have to. But what do you suggest they will do? Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich voters will never admit they are wrong.

You have to take responsibility for all the other voters that vote wrong too. Because you agree to a democratic system before the vote happens 

There were problems before Netanyahu as well 

[Twentyfirst]

41 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

And go back to Europe?

I meant do a permanent one state or two state solution which requires giving back land 

[Twentyfirst]

38 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

What will happen when Zionism is destroyed? How would life in the territory of Israel, the new Palestine, look? How would the lives of Palestinians change? What would their government look like? How would the Middle East as a whole be affected?

Where would the Jews go? The majority of Jews in Israel are the descendants of those who came from Middle Eastern countries. Would the Middle Eastern countries accept them back?

Or Europe would Europe accept millions of Jews? Or America? 

 

It would go back to what it was before Zionism. Probably a one state solution with majority Palestinian and minority Jew. The middle eastern Jews can do business and trade with the rest of the Middle East and the hardcore Zionist ones will voluntarily go back to Europe because the only reason they are there is for the ethno state and because America protects them. Only then can Jews and their children know true peace after thousands of years of oppression

[Lila9]

40 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

It would go back to what it was before Zionism. Probably a one state solution with majority Palestinian and minority Jew. The middle eastern Jews can do business and trade with the rest of the Middle East and the hardcore Zionist ones will voluntarily go back to Europe because the only reason they are there is for the ethno state and because America protects them. Only then can Jews and their children know true peace after thousands of years of oppression

There are hardcore Zionists among both European and non-European Jews. Some might argue that Middle Eastern/ North African Jews are even more hardcore in their Zionism than European Jews nowadays.

Additionally, many in the latest generations are of mixed European and Middle Eastern/North African Jewish heritage, so how can they truly be divided?

 

[Twentyfirst]

36 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There are hardcore Zionists among both European and non-European Jews. Some might argue that Middle Eastern/ North African Jews are even more hardcore in their Zionism than European Jews nowadays.

Additionally, many in the latest generations are of mixed European and Middle Eastern/North African Jewish heritage, so how can they truly be divided?

 

The ideology will be filtered out automatically. Simply because the new landscape won’t allow it or won’t adapt to it. They will be angry but without force or support behind them they will just fade out. There will be violence and arguments but it will be human rights issues rather than land or apartheid issues 

[Lila9]

33 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The ideology will be filtered out automatically. Simply because the new landscape won’t allow it or won’t adapt to it. They will be angry but without force or support behind them they will just fade out. There will be violence and arguments but it will be human rights issues rather than land or apartheid issues 

Wouldn’t it raise new issues because the Palestinians of today weren’t born in Israel. So they will occupy and rule people who were actually born in Israel, just because their grandparents were born there.
People criticize Israelis for doing this to Palestinians but are Palestinians doing this to Israelis is more moral?

If so, what makes it more moral? Time? 
Because Arabs lived there 70 years ago when Jews lived there 2000 years ago (though some Jews lived in Israel all those 2000 years). So then those who lived there more recently are the ones who posses this land?

If what people call the Zionist occupation of Palestine will last, at what point it will no longer be considered an occupation? At what year it will cease to be considered an occupation? 100 years? 200? 1000 from now? How many generations of Palestinians who weren’t born in the Israeli territory needed for this land to be no longer considered occupied and for violent resistance to no longer be justified? 
 

 

Edited Saturday at 03:02 PM by Lila9

[Twentyfirst]

9 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Wouldn’t it raise new issues because the Palestinians of today weren’t born in Israel. So they will occupy and rule people who were actually born in Israel, just because their grandparents were born there.
People criticize Israelis for doing this to Palestinians but are Palestinians doing this to Israelis is more moral?

If so, what makes it more moral? Time? 
Because Arabs lived there 70 years ago when Jews lived there 2000 years ago (though some Jews lived in Israel all those 2000 years). So then those who lived there more recently are the ones who posses this land?

If what people call the Zionist occupation of Palestine will last, at what point it will no longer be considered an occupation? At what year it will cease to be considered an occupation? 100 years? 200? 1000 from now? How many generations of Palestinians who weren’t born in the Israeli territory needed for this land to be no longer considered occupied and for violent resistance to no longer be justified? 
 

 

I already posted a video about this. I’ll post it here again. And remember Palestinians have more people and are a majority. Some of the parents/grandparents were born there whether they got kicked out at 67 or 48 they are still alive. Here is a video about the decendents right to the land 

The longer the Zionists or even Jews wait to do the right thing the worse off their own people will be in the end when the Palestinians will get pretty much the same outcome no matter how much time passes 

 

Edited Saturday at 03:11 PM by Twentyfirst

[Hatfort]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

There are hardcore Zionists among both European and non-European Jews. Some might argue that Middle Eastern/ North African Jews are even more hardcore in their Zionism than European Jews nowadays.

Additionally, many in the latest generations are of mixed European and Middle Eastern/North African Jewish heritage, so how can they truly be divided?

From what I've heard, many have double nationality passports already. In that scenario, they could stay or they could go to the country from which they, their parents, or their grandparents came from, it would be their choice, it wouldn't be a greater power relocating them, maybe except in cases of proven home theft or very recent settlements like the ones in the West Bank, that would have to be reconsidered at least. There is quite recent footage of an American Jewish man telling a Palestinian girl that if he wouldn't take her home, someone else would. Cases like these are not acceptable, it's pure theft.

Palestinian refugees and their descendants have the right to return as well. This is not different in most countries, when you prove you are a descendant of someone of another country, you are granted the nationality. The Jews choosing to stay in Palestine, they just can live in democracy, and equal rights, that's fine.

[Lila9]

15 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

I already posted a video about this. I’ll post it here again. And remember Palestinians have more people and are a majority. Some of the parents/grandparents were born there whether they got kicked out at 67 or 48 they are still alive. Here is a video about the decendents right to the land 

The longer the Zionists or even Jews wait to do the right thing the worse off their own people will be in the end when the Palestinians will get pretty much the same outcome no matter how much time passes 

 

How many years the Palestinian refugees descendants will have the right to return? How many generations precisely? 

[Lila9]

16 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

From what I've heard, many have double nationality passports already. In that scenario, they could stay or they could go to the country from which they, their parents, or their grandparents came from, it would be their choice, it wouldn't be a greater power relocating them, maybe except in cases of proven home theft or very recent settlements like the ones in the West Bank, that would have to be reconsidered at least. There is quite recent footage of an American Jewish man telling a Palestinian girl that if he wouldn't take her home, someone else would. Cases like these are not acceptable, it's pure theft.

Palestinian refugees and their descendants have the right to return as well. This is not different in most countries, when you prove you are a descendant of someone of another country, you are granted the nationality. The Jews choosing to stay in Palestine, they just can live in democracy, and equal rights, that's fine.

How many years the Palestinian right to return lasts?

Will it ever expire as it was expired for Jews, as some believe?