Could such a plan make everyone on Earth biologically immortal?

[Alexander1988]

Many people worry that if life expectancy increases significantly, it will lead to overpopulation, poverty, and that all life-extending medicines will be monopolized by the wealthy, preventing others from using them.

I think this is a misconception, and I'll explain why. For example, no one is currently forbidden from using medicines or medical services.

Some people think that others are not worthy of not aging. Or they believe that if you are not needed by anyone, you shouldn't live a long life. They worry that in the future, people won't help others as they do now—for example, emergency medical services might not be available. Or that there won't be social benefits, jobs will be hard to find, and therefore, a long life wouldn't be worth it.

I think that all people deserve to live. It’s not like people should die just because they believe no one is needed by anyone. They can change something in their lives if they want to.

Also such medicines will be produced for everyone.
Just like how cheap generic versions of Ozempic are now being made in India and China.

A few thousand years after everyone stops aging, we could pass a law allowing families to have only one child. Just like they did in China. After that, the population would only double. When I talk about this, I am not advocating for any other laws adopted in China. I am referring to this one specific law.

I will also write about cryonics below. I kindly ask you not to think about cryonics with bias based on your personal attitude toward someone who supports it, or due to any provocative statements or actions they may have made, which almost always aim to draw public attention to the fact that people avoid thinking about, considering, or even discussing cryonics. I ask you to objectively consider what is written below. Also, please do not assume that everyone will be so angry that no one did anything and everyone was inert, to the point where they would grab machine guns and start shooting people out of rage if a rally were organized. Usually, it takes decades for many people to reflect on something like cryonics, and there is no strong desire to harm anyone specifically just because nothing is being done.

Poverty isn’t caused by overpopulation. It’s due to low levels of production. And low production is often a result of traditions. For example, the U.S. has long had a tradition of entrepreneurship and has high level of production. This means production can be increased. And when people stop dying, they’ll retain their skills for work and be able to accumulate money.

1 US 25.32% World GDP, 5x growth over the past 35 years
2 China 17.86% World GDP, x57 growth over the past 35 years
3 Japan 4.21% World GDP, x1.35 growth over the past 35 years

It would be possible to hold rallies in the USA. It’s easiest to organize them there. Then the results of these rallies could spread worldwide, and other countries would adopt them.

It’s just harsh that the topic of biological immortality is being largely ignored.

What do you think—should we organize rallies in the U.S. and demand answers from the government about why nothing is being done? Many people believe that governments should be the ones to take the initiative first.

We could gather a rally of 100,000 people in the U.S. and demand answers from the government. Organize a concert with famous performers—such an event would attract a large audience.

And there, we could say the following:

Free cryonics: Scientists say this could save everyone’s life, prevent illness and aging. No one knows of any reason why it wouldn’t work. In fact, it seems highly likely to work because medicine keeps improving. We need to preserve deceased individuals in liquid nitrogen so they can potentially be revived when medicine advances enough to make revival, healing, and rejuvenation possible.

Accelerating medical development: Currently, only 0.3% of GDP is spent on medical research. In comparison, 18% of GDP is spent on healthcare.

Permission for OrganEx to revive conscious pigs: For three years, they have been denied permission to conduct such experiments. If successful, this could enable reviving people several hours after death and might eventually allow revival after cryonics. Currently, pigs are fully revived under anesthesia several hours after death but are euthanized without being brought to consciousness because the necessary permissions haven’t been granted.

Demanding answers: Why is the government acting passively and allowing people to keep dying? Churches, demographers, and economists don’t oppose what’s outlined here. Do you have an objective reason to dismiss this, or just excuses?

Such a massive rally would gain media attention, forcing the government to respond.
When thousands of scientists write petitions, no one answers because the issue isn’t considered "popular enough" to warrant a reply.

I asked ChatGPT how such rallies could be organized: How much money is approximately needed to organize concerts and rallies to gather 100,000 people at rallies in the US? Famous music bands are required since the rally is not popular.

"Organizing concerts and rallies to attract 100,000 people in the US is a complex and
costly endeavor, especially if the rally topic is not popular. Here's an approximate
breakdown of expenses:

1. Venue Rental
For 100,000 people, large stadiums or parks are required.
Stadium rental cost: $500,000–$1,000,000.
Park or open space rental (including permits and cleanup): $100,000–$500,000.

2. Famous Music Bands
Headliners for concerts, such as popular rock or pop bands, demand significant fees.
Performance fees per event:
Superstars (e.g., BTS, Beyoncé): $1,000,000–$5,000,000.
Popular bands (e.g., Imagine Dragons): $500,000–$1,000,000.
Less famous artists: $50,000–$200,000.
To attract a large audience, it’s recommended to invite several groups, increasing the
total cost.

3. Technical Support
Stage, sound, lighting, screens, equipment: $500,000–$1,500,000.
Installation and dismantling: $100,000–$300,000.

4. Permits and Security
Licenses and permits from authorities: $50,000–$200,000.
Security, police, medical staff: $100,000–$500,000.

5. Advertising and Promotion
To attract 100,000 people, wide-reaching advertising is essential:
Social media: $50,000–$200,000.
Traditional media (TV, radio, billboards): $100,000–$500,000.
Collaboration with influencers could cost an additional $50,000–$300,000.

6. Logistics
Transport, parking, and cleanup: $100,000–$300,000.
Food and drinks (if provided): $500,000–$1,000,000.

7. Contingency Costs
Always allocate an additional 10–20% of the budget for unforeseen expenses.

Total Estimate:
The total cost for such an event could range from $3,000,000 to $10,000,000 or more,
depending on the scale, the number of invited stars, the level of advertising, and other
factors.

If the rally topic is truly unpopular, the following will be necessary:
Invest heavily in top performers to draw the audience.
Strengthen marketing efforts to clearly communicate the event’s purpose.
For a more precise estimate, factors like the location (e.g., costs in New York are sig-
nificantly higher than in smaller cities) and the potential involvement of sponsors or
partners, who could reduce expenses, need to be taken into account."

I wrote to billionaires and various funds. Either they didn't reply, or they wished me success and said they believe it's more important to allocate money to something else. Maybe someone can help with fundraising, give some advice, or organize such rallies themselves?

[Apparition of Jack]

Bro what

[Sucuk Ekmek]

Welcome to the forum, Alex!

Being biologically immortal—whether in a physical body, material construct, or digital form—seems like a waste of energy. Let me explain. As humans, we evolve through the concept of death and how we practice with existence. This doesn’t mean we aren’t immortal in some sense—it’s simply part of nature’s continuous cycle.

 Our bodies are tools for exploring biology. It’s shortsighted to believe that preserving these tools indefinitely grants us the immortality we seek.

 It might be a noble cause to pursue and attain immortality, but judging by biology—which defines our individuality—each person will have their own unique experience and approach to achieving it. Because of this diversity, I believe centralized methods are not suitable for such a purpose.

[Hojo]

Are you willing to murder trillions of babies for immortality? You are stopping other souls from coming to experience earth because you are too scared of the greatest thing to ever happen to you.

This is a playground play and then go home.

I used to be terrified of dying and was thinking my entire life about how I could stop dying. I always wondered why are the rich people not researching this? Why is no one talking about dying? This is the most important thing to look into. Then I see God and I see why. This is a mini game you want to play the same mini game forever? Possibly be made immortal then enslaved forever?

You actually don't like people as much as you do and being around them forever you would want to die. Once you stop trying to gain acceptance from people you will see no one will ever accept you for who you are except God.

The search for immortality comes with lack of faith. The contradiction is you must search for it to find it so God must lack faith to gain it faith.

You have another body that is in space and you can fly around to different planet and do the crazy shit you see when you are dreaming.

The fear of death is high intelligence coming into action. Its the one thing that is a complete lie that people and reality trick you into thinking is real.

Your mind sees this and registers it as an unknown force that leads to fear. If you are smart you will focus on that fear. That is where immortality is.

When you die its not permanent lights off. The lights will come back on.

Edited January 17 by Hojo

[Alexander1988]

On 16.01.2025 at 8:18 AM, Apparition of Jack said:

Bro what

What I wrote is unusual and sounds unfamiliar because most people are accustomed to a different perspective. But if you think about it logically, it doesn’t seem far-fetched that medicine keeps improving and will continue to do so until scientists fully understand how the body works and why certain treatments are effective. Following this logic, scientists working on advancing medicine will eventually figure out all the chemical reactions in the body and how to trigger the right ones to treat various conditions.

For instance, scientists have studied why children are born young from parents whose cells are older, and why humanity doesn’t age collectively with each new generation. They discovered Yamanaka factors, which rejuvenate cells. They analyzed the complex molecules involved in cellular rejuvenation, as well as simpler molecules with similar effects, and tested them on mice, extending their lifespan. Currently, these are being tested on monkeys, and if proven safe, they will eventually be tested on humans. Scientists might discover even more breakthroughs.

It’s unclear why it wouldn’t be possible to find drugs or molecules that could repair cracks in the brain after cryonics and thawing. There’s a very high probability that such solutions could also be discovered. No one has yet been able to come up with reasons why such drugs cannot be discovered. This does not contradict the laws of physics. A perpetual motion machine cannot exist according to the laws of physics, but non-aging organisms can and already do exist in nature. They can be clearly demonstrated, and something similar can be developed for humans. There aren't even any hypotheses about what could theoretically prevent it. The time spent without oxygen in the cells shouldn’t cause significant damage, as OrganEx is able to revive pigs several hours after death. Cells could potentially be treated with drugs in a manner similar to medications developed based on Yamanaka factors. There are also immortal jellyfish and animals that hardly age. Studying the chemical reactions in their bodies could lead to creating something similar for humans. For example, DNA could be altered as it is in treatments for diseases, or specific drugs could be taken to prevent aging.

[Alexander1988]

On 16.01.2025 at 2:25 PM, Sucuk Ekmek said:

Welcome to the forum, Alex!

Being biologically immortal—whether in a physical body, material construct, or digital form—seems like a waste of energy. Let me explain. As humans, we evolve through the concept of death and how we practice with existence. This doesn’t mean we aren’t immortal in some sense—it’s simply part of nature’s continuous cycle.

 Our bodies are tools for exploring biology. It’s shortsighted to believe that preserving these tools indefinitely grants us the immortality we seek.

 It might be a noble cause to pursue and attain immortality, but judging by biology—which defines our individuality—each person will have their own unique experience and approach to achieving it. Because of this diversity, I believe centralized methods are not suitable for such a purpose.

Thank you!

>Cycles  
Not all animals have life cycles. For example, hydras simply do not age.  

Animals that do not age:  
- Porifera  
- Leiopathes  
- Planarians  
- Tardigrades  
- Bdelloid rotifers  
- Hydras  
- Arctica islandica  

There are animals that age very slowly:  
- Sea urchins  
- Turtles  
- Heterocephalus glaber (naked mole rat)  
- Sphenodon punctatus (tuatara)  
- Balaena mysticetus (bowhead whale)  

Many plants age very slowly and are resistant to diseases and environmental factors. They can live for an impressive number of years:  
- Populus tremuloides (quaking aspen) – 80,000 years  
- Lomatia tasmanica – 43,600 years  
- Pinus longaeva (Great Basin bristlecone pine) – 5,000 years  
- Welwitschia mirabilis – 2,000 years  
- Sequoia sempervirens (coast redwood) – 2,000 years  
- Adansonia (baobab) – 2,000 years  
- Olea europaea (olive tree) – 3,000 years

A human being might, with a small probability, eventually evolve to stop aging. Alternatively, we could discover a medicine to take in order to prevent aging. Or we could alter DNA, as is done in some treatments for diseases, to stop aging. However, no method for achieving this has been found yet. To explore this possibility, researchers study animals that naturally do not age.

If such medicines were developed today, people could live, on average, up to 1,000 years, since illnesses would occur far less frequently. Because the likelihood of disease increases with age. But cures could also be developed for diseases.

New animal species continually emerge through evolution. For instance, when the climate or habitat changes, animals mutate until they reach sufficient longevity to can repsoduce itself or they die in another in new circumstances. When organisms can avoid extinction, they extend their lifespan as long as the chemical reactions in their bodies can continue without breaking down and their cells can replicate. There also needs to be a supply of resources to sustain these chemical reactions. If such organisms can reproduce, the entire population will live longer because those with shorter lifespans will gradually die out, leaving fewer offspring. In other words, the chemical reactions in their bodies persist as long as they can be maintained and replicated to create copies of the same reactions elsewhere. When these chemical reactions can no longer continue, they break down, and the organisms die. An entire population could perish if the organisms or their chemical reactions become incapable of replication. 

This means that humans and animals are essentially complex chemical reactions, with numerous repetitions, preserved through self-sustenance and the inflow of molecules. It is somewhat similar to a small whirlwind of leaves in a spot with air turbulence—only far more complex, with the ability to replicate themselves and composed of interacting molecules. The chemical reactions that are able to persist are the ones that remain.

There may be certain mutation thresholds that are difficult to surpass for the emergence of a new species. However, organisms generally adapt easily to their environment. For example, humans mutate over 1,000 years to change skin color and optimize vitamin D production from ultraviolet light while also protecting against it. Eye shapes can change over 50,000 years depending on environmental factors like strong winds in the region.

Humans also create new animals and plants through selective breeding. This process is rapid and does not require waiting for natural mutations to occur.

>Everyone has their own path to immortality.  
Not every path will work.  

Medicine is a proven path—it works and keeps improving.  
It's possible to assume that there is some other way, one that no one has yet thought of or discovered.  

If we consider something from religions, the results cannot be verified, and it's unclear on what basis decisions are made about whether something from a religion will work or not. There are many religions, some promising immortality and others not. New religions keep emerging. Theoretically, something from a religion might work, but there's no way to test whether it did or not. New religions appear all the time—maybe someday, a religion will be created that actually works, or maybe such a religion will never be invented. In any case, it's unclear how to determine what would work from something untestable. Here, it’s purely a matter of guessing. Nothing points to the existence of God.

One could also hypothesize that some random sequence of accidental actions might work, unrelated to any religion. However, it seems practically impossible to guess blindly from an infinite number of possibilities, and it’s unclear why such randomness would work at all.  

Many people say you should just choose something popular, and it will definitely work. For example, a religion where there were supposedly miracles, and people talk about them. But not all historical or legendary figures associated with miracles have inspired religions. For instance, Jesus said, "You need to strip everything from the Torah except the commandments. The rest is unnecessary. Temples, religions, and all that aren’t needed. Just follow the commandments, and everything will be fine. My words are from God." He gained popularity, and people declared him to be an avatar of God or God Himself who appeared on Earth temporarily. For other individuals said to have performed miracles, no religions were created.  

For example, someone could claim that David Copperfield can fly, walk through walls, come back to life, and reappear after being buried alive. Someone could create a religion about that. Or about someone from legends who could move mountains and rivers.  

But if something cannot be verified, in my opinion, it is dangerous to rely on advice without understanding the process or the outcome. In those religions which assume the existence of God, it is often stated that God is a complex entity. But they don’t explain where God came from—whether through evolution, creation by someone else, or some other way. And at the same time, it’s claimed that complexity cannot arise simply through patterns that lead to results over iterations. Incomplete information can provide mistakes.  

They don’t explain what a soul is, how it works, or why it doesn’t function when the brain is damaged—these questions are typically left unanswered. Or, different religions with the concept of a soul offer different explanations. Those explanations have been revised and refined over centuries, yet no one has explained why one explanation should be considered correct.  

For example, take the miracle of the Holy Fire. The Patriarch lights the sacred fire without matches, and he is searched before entering the cave. Someone could attach a camera during the search to see how he does it. That way, 2.2 billion people wouldn’t waste time on a nonfunctional religion. But somehow, no one seems interested in this.  

In short, I don’t want to rely on unverified information.  

I also dislike religions that claim you’ll go somewhere after death. Why should I believe that this will happen? I could invent the idea that I’ll end up somewhere in a second—but that didn’t happen, so why should I think it will happen after death?  

I understand that it’s unfamiliar to think about the fact that you live, everything seems normal, and then someone dies—or I die myself. But it’s just unfamiliar.  

When someone close to you dies, you realize it’s unfamiliar, but it’s a fact that they are gone.

[Alexander1988]

When humans stop aging, which may happen in 500-1000 years thanks to advancements in medicine, people might encounter certain problems they dislike. For example, a cruel dictator, overpopulation, economic instability, or issues related to life's cycles. Some might struggle with finding meaning in life or face problems in love. 

If humanity faces a significant issue, and a scientist comes forward and says, "I've found a solution to this problem. Let's just kill everyone," it would cause outrage. Imagine the scientist proposing: 

"I've developed a virus that will cause every person to die. Every eight years, the probability of death doubles. The risk of Alzheimer's, cardiovascular diseases, cancer, frailty, and so on will increase exponentially. We'll simply infect everyone, and the problem will be solved."

Such a proposal would be perceived as utterly horrifying because this scientist essentially advocates for the mass elimination of humanity. 

Compared to this scientist, even Hitler might seem saintly. This person would likely be confined to a mental institution.

[The Crocodile]

@Alexander1988 This is not from a scientific perspective but it might interest you anyway, whether you believe in it or not. Somebody I was in conversation with:

 

 

So what helped me and was taken from taoism was their qiqong style energy breathing. They collect energy by linking breathing and intent to pulling it through the senses and condensing in into the center of mass.

All that is just done with visualization and intent. This is a basic daily practice but I also learned how to do many other things with energy like this

To condense and collect energy inhale through nose, exhale through month I balance the two halves of the cycle evenly and time them to my heart beat. And that's way more than I share usually, I feel like you may find it useful

Instead of just building a vessel to exist in after death- we can become physically immortal and live for several hundred years, barring accident.

And fwiw, I was taught this and developed it. My friend and teacher "discovered" these methods almost twenty years ago

There's more to it but I feel a little bound by obligación of secrecy. I don't mean to be cryptic I just can't give away the whole process at once. Anyhow, you obviously have your own thing going on so I don't wanna come off as a teacher here. Just a brother sharing some things

The energy collected will naturally rise at its own pace, kundalini-like 

Just keep stoking and pumping the furnace below. Center of mass.

There is also a meditation I believe written down by Israel Regardie but I could be mistaken on where this came from, i'm not 100% confident it was Regardie directly or if he was quoting someone....paraphrasing he states that the entire Great Work of the hermetic orders can be completed through one single meditation. 

The visualization of intense bright white light engulfing and consuming and intermeshing with every atom and cell of the body, down to microscopic detail.

Also fwiw there is a lot of modern scientific research into immortality and basically, we know how to do it and are working to develop the technologies. I don't have the money for all of the treatments but my diet and exercise is right Just to say there is more than meditation to long life. And it's not all esoteric